Is destruction inevitable by a loving Creator?

[Guest]

Good morning Mark.

[Guest]

Ezek 28:2 does say that the prince of Tyre is a man.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

We also need to consider this Lutz:

I ask our people to study the 28th chapter of Ezekiel. The representation here made, while it refers primarily to Lucifer, the fallen angel, has a yet broader significance. Not one being, but a general movement, is described, and one that we shall witness. A faithful study of this chapter should lead those who are seeking for truth to walk in all the light that God has given to His people, lest they be deceived by the deceptions of these last days. {SpTB17a 30.2}

That is true, often times we find that things have more than one application. Though she does make it pretty clear that even the prince Tyrus represents Satan.

Indeed.

But is it representating Satan specifically, or Satan working through the Prince of Tyrus?

This bears further study and I am talking to the Lord about it.

I will start a new thread on this, to get some thoughts.

Mark

[Guest]

It clearly calls the prince a man.

[Twilight]

Good morning Mark.

Morning Richard. :-)

[Twilight]

It clearly calls the prince a man.

I have started a new thread on this Richard, I think it bears some examination.

Mark

[pnattmbtc]

Jump on in here Bob, but I warn you, the opposition is pretty fierce. They do not want God to kill the wicked.

How about, "They do not want the wicked to die"? If we ask this, we would be asking the same question as God who asked, "Why will you die?" but not, "Why must I kill you?"

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

Christ felt the anguish which the sinner will feel when mercy shall no longer plead for the guilty race. It was the sense of sin, bringing the Father's wrath upon Him as man's substitute, that made the cup He drank so bitter, and broke the heart of the Son of God. {DA 753.2}

How does this support the idea that God kills the wicked?

[Lutz13]

It clearly calls the prince a man.

Want to see something else that is interesting?

"Those who see you will gaze at you, and consider you, saying: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world as a wilderness and destroyed its cities, who did not open the house of his prisoners"(Isaiah 14:16-17)

Yes! The time is coming when people will look at him and go..."you're a man, not a god..." When will that be? Probably after they bow down and God has revealed everything to them... This actually ties into Ezekiel 28 very well.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

It clearly calls the prince a man.

Want to see something else that is interesting?

"Those who see you will gaze at you, and consider you, saying: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world as a wilderness and destroyed its cities, who did not open the house of his prisoners"(Isaiah 14:16-17)

Yes! The time is coming when people will look at him and go..."you're a man, not a god..." When will that be? Probably after they bow down and God has revealed everything to them... This actually ties into Ezekiel 28 very well.

Thank you for that text Lutz. :-)

I have started a new thread on this subject, would you copy your post there, it would contribute to the discussion.

It is titled the Prince of Tyrus on this forum.

We are looking specifically at Ezekial 28.

Mark

[LifeHiscost]

The community of Adventist believers, of which I've been a member for approximately 22 years,

That was meant to say "this community"

#276947 - Yesterday at 12:51 Re: Is destruction inevitable by a loving Creator? [Re: teresaq]

For whoever cares.

[LifeHiscost]

That was beautiful.

Yes, isn't He. And Wonderful, too.

"For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."Isaiah 9:6 21st Century KJV

Blessings!

[teresaq]

Jump on in here Bob, but I warn you, the opposition is pretty fierce. They do not want God to kill the wicked.

http://www.clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/209316.html#Post209316

4) Don't put words in other people's mouths that they have never said. (This does not, of course, prohibit quoting their words from previous posts.)

[Guest]

I didn't put words in anybody's mouth, I merely stated a fact. Did I say you said anything? NO. I wasn't even talking to you.

[teresaq]

I didn't put words in anybody's mouth, I merely stated a fact. Did I say you said anything? NO. I wasn't even talking to you.

[teresaq]

Richard -

I never saw a non-God solution for the description of the wicked being destroyed by God in the Lake of fire.

Quote:

Great Controversy - 673

Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth's surface seems one molten mass--a vast, seething 673....

Was there a solution for this???

first, are the lost dead raised with some kind of immortality that would allow them to burn for long periods of time without being consumed?

second, http://www.clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/274854/44.html #274757

[Guest]

[Twilight]

As I have studied this I have become convinced that men do not destroy Satan.

There is one simple fact that is being overlooked.

Satan is the last to be destroyed.

Not the first.

For man to destroy Satan, means satan would be dead before men.

That is not the case.

Satan is the last one to go.

Mark

[Lutz13]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Jump on in here Bob, but I warn you, the opposition is pretty fierce. They do not want God to kill the wicked.

http://www.clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/209316.html#Post209316

4) Don't put words in other people's mouths that they have never said. (This does not, of course, prohibit quoting their words from previous posts.)

Well, he is right for me though. I don't want God to kill the wicked. I wish He could save them all.

I do not know who will be saved or not. But I just couldn't imagine sitting on the walls of new Jerusalem watching a family member being burned alive by God.

I think I have come to a conclusion on this whole study. Many nights while I work I speak with my Father about this and wonderful things come to my mind. I can now finally have no fear of my Heavenly Father. I know He will never use force, even when one goes against Him. His wrath is the same and the way He deals with sin will always be the same. I can now read through scripture peacefully and reading the things that God says He will do. Even when it sounds violent, I know that God isn't the one who really causes the violence. It is the choice man makes. David had many of these moments. God said He would bring adversity upon David and cause his neighbor to take his wives. Well God never caused it, yet He said He did it. I'm beginning to wonder if God is protecting His very own adversary as well. I can stand back and say "Wow, what love!" I can stop following Him for fear and start loving Him like the wonderful Father He is.

He is up there guiding me down the path. When I slip off He picks me up and carries me back onto the road. God wants to protect me from the actions I take. He wants to show me that I don't have to be afraid of Him blowing me up if I don't follow Him. I am unsure how one does not follow Him out of fear with such thoughts as that.

Think hard about this. Do you worship God because you think if you don't He will burn you up? Perhaps the thought of never existing again? Or do you worship Him because you love Him?

My mind is now set on this. I do not claim to know everything there is to know. There are many questions I will have to patiently wait to ask. I truly look forward to that day!

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: teresaq

http://www.clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/209316.html#Post209316

4) Don't put words in other people's mouths that they have never said. (This does not, of course, prohibit quoting their words from previous posts.) [/quote']

Well, he is right for me though. I don't want God to kill the wicked. I wish He could save them all.

I do not know who will be saved or not. But I just couldn't imagine sitting on the walls of new Jerusalem watching a family member being burned alive by God.

I think I have come to a conclusion on this whole study. Many nights while I work I speak with my Father about this and wonderful things come to my mind. I can now finally have no fear of my Heavenly Father. I know He will never use force, even when one goes against Him. His wrath is the same and the way He deals with sin will always be the same. I can now read through scripture peacefully and reading the things that God says He will do. Even when it sounds violent, I know that God isn't the one who really causes the violence. It is the choice man makes. David had many of these moments. God said He would bring adversity upon David and cause his neighbor to take his wives. Well God never caused it, yet He said He did it. I'm beginning to wonder if God is protecting His very own adversary as well. I can stand back and say "Wow, what love!" I can stop following Him for fear and start loving Him like the wonderful Father He is.

He is up there guiding me down the path. When I slip off He picks me up and carries me back onto the road. God wants to protect me from the actions I take. He wants to show me that I don't have to be afraid of Him blowing me up if I don't follow Him. I am unsure how one does not follow Him out of fear with such thoughts as that.

Think hard about this. Do you worship God because you think if you don't He will burn you up? Perhaps the thought of never existing again? Or do you worship Him because you love Him?

My mind is now set on this. I do not claim to know everything there is to know. There are many questions I will have to patiently wait to ask. I truly look forward to that day!

I appreciated your post Lutz :-)

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Lutz13

I appreciated your post Lutz :-)

That was excellent Lutz! Praise God. I am with you 100%

sky

[skyblue888]

Mark, the fact that Satan is the last one to go down does not automatically means that he didnt fall at the hand of the most violent of the nations. Holy Writ says that he will fall at the hand of the wicked. We must be careful here Mark not to put our own constructions upon the Word. Remember Satan will fight to the very bitter end and he can stay alive longer than any for he is wickedness incarnate and the more wicked a person is the more he/she will fight to stay alive.

sky :)

[teresaq]

Well, he is right for me though. I don't want God to kill the wicked. I wish He could save them all.

I do not know who will be saved or not. But I just couldn't imagine sitting on the walls of new Jerusalem watching a family member being burned alive by God.

[Twilight]

Mark, the fact that Satan is the last one to go down does not automatically means that he didnt fall at the hand of the most violent of the nations. Holy Writ says that he will fall at the hand of the wicked. We must be careful here Mark not to put our own constructions upon the Word. Remember Satan will fight to the very bitter end and he can stay alive longer than any for he is the wickedness and the more wicked a person is the more he/she will fight to stay alive.

sky

But then we have to consider that each will suffer for their sins "during" the lake of fire Sky.

The position you have presented earlier in the thread is that the suffering happens in the 1000 years.

That is not consistent with SOP, (I had a read of GC) this morning).

There is a specific suffering satan goes through, it is longer than everyone elses and he is the last one to be destroyed.

It happens when the fire consumes him.

Mark

[Guest]

Satan rushes into the midst of his followers and tries to stir up the multitude to action. But fire from God out of heaven is rained upon them, and the great men, and mighty men, the noble, the poor and miserable, are all consumed together. I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. Said the angel, "The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon." {EW 294.1}

How does one get around these plain words of the prophet?