olger Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 You believe in hiding your online identity. :) :) rejoice always, `oG "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 You betcha. And it is because of those who believe as you do ... that I have to do so. The internet is a dangerous place and you have proven that for me. You threatened to come to my house and do me harm when you found out I was disabled. Good reason to avoid people like you ... right? Are you sure you want to bring up this topic olger? May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
olger Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 That's hilarious ! And burn the whole neighborhood down too. regards, `oG "Just say no to drama queens." "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
LifeHiscost Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 I have indicated that it is not our job to save others. "And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation." Acts 2:40 NKJV Regards! Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 It seams to me that some direct us further and further away from the simple Gospel message and make it so complicated and burdensome that no one in their right mind would be attracted to it. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6 KJV "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."Matthew 11:28 NKJV Seams pretty simple to me. Regards! Lift Jesus up!!
oldsailor29 Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: oldsailor29 We are all going to hell. Hell, of course, can mean the grave, and for sure, if Christ doesn't come before we all die, we will all go to hell in that sense. We would all of us be destined for hell except for the grace of God in Christ. But praise God, Christ has reversed that destiny and now we are destined for heaven-- if we hold on to faith in Christ to the end. Heaven and Hell is the same place, the presence of God. Prs God, frm whm blssngs flw http://www.zoelifestyle.com/jmccall
Moderators John317 Posted December 12, 2009 Moderators Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 Hell' date=' of course, can mean the grave, and for sure, if Christ doesn't come before we all die, we will all go to hell in that sense. We would all of us be destined for hell except for the grace of God in Christ. But praise God, Christ has reversed that destiny and now we are destined for heaven-- if we hold on to faith in Christ to the end. [/quote'] Heaven and Hell is the same place, the presence of God. I think I get your point, but the Father and Christ are in the heavenly sanctuary, not in hell. They can be anywhere through the agency of the Holy Spirit, of course. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
oldsailor29 Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 I think I get your point, but the Father and Christ are in the heavenly sanctuary, not in hell. They can be anywhere through the agency of the Holy Spirit, of course. A sinner in their presence would be in hell. I think it is a good idea to keep an open mind about God's abilities and where He dwells and where He is capable of being. Prs God, frm whm blssngs flw http://www.zoelifestyle.com/jmccall
Robert Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Prov 15:22 "Without counsel, plans go awry, But in the multitude of counselors they are established." NKJ Well, maybe good counselors...folks like Jack Sequeira, Morris Venden...even some folks around CA, but this doesn't include you Gerry....Sorry dude....I've been down your road before....I found a better one.
Robert Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Redwood It seams to me that some direct us further and further away from the simple Gospel message and make it so complicated and burdensome that no one in their right mind would be attracted to it. Are you saying that to have our eyes directed to Jesus, to His divine Person, and .... sky Same goes for you....
guibox Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 After looking at Larson's diatribe at the beginning of this thread, I have a few comments: 1) It is obvious that this article was written in 2000. As far as I can tell, Our Firm Foundation, Hope and every other historic arm of the SDA church are still up and running and have not been kicked out or split. Seems like Larson was stirring up the nest for nothing with his 'we are the victims' fear mongering. 2) I find it funny how Larson tries to make the historic SDAs look like the on trial Reformers and the GC as the Catholic Inquisition when the history of our church and what plays out in our power struggles in our churches has shown it to be the exact opposite. Conservativism has ruled our churches with an iron hand. 'He's teaching/preaching THAT?? New Theology!" A committee is called, the books of EGW and the FBs are brought out and the person is judged by them. It doesn't matter why or for what reason he has taught/preached what he did. If it doesn't conform, the person is asked to leave, fired or forced out. We all know that if Larson and the rest of the uber-conservatives had their way, they'd be forcing these supposed 'Calvinists' out the door in a heartbeat to 'preserve' the historic Adventist faith and not let it be 'defiled', as Larson put it. 3) Larson's 'martyrdom' attitude usually springs from the belief that 'we have the truth and whatever deviates from that is heresy'. This then allows him to stamp and brand their interpretation of EGW, their use of historical doctrine to ignore theological growth or further doctrinal light. Stuck in the past of pre-1888, they insist that this is the whole truth and we CANNOT deviate from it. They are then justified to do what they will to maintain what MUST be whole truth straight from God and feel persecuted when others have an issue with their brand of legalism. This also allows them to see 'apostasy' and the 'professed shaking' of the SDA church when anything different from what they believe springs up. This reinforces in their minds that they do have all the truth for 'Sister White predicted this would happen'. Much of the time this supposed 'apostasy' and 'shaking' is self-prophecy due to their legalism and strong-arm tactics to make church members 'mind the standards'. Lord save me from your people... www.corbel.theacaistory.com
Robert Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Lord save me from your people... I was at one time caught up in this unholy hell, Larson and the rest....It was hard...very hard to have a change of mind....I was a devil at home, but at church a saint...I was a legalist...in fact I was the #1 legalist and would take on anyone who opposed me until I met Morris Venden....He got me thinking....Then God brought Robert Wieland in so I could understand SDA history....And then Jack Sequera so that I could understand and accept the gospel. Jack helped me understand Paul....But ultimately is was Paul that delivered from my legalistic ways...
Guest Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 1) It is obvious that this article was written in 2000. As far as I can tell, Our Firm Foundation, Hope and every other historic arm of the SDA church are still up and running and have not been kicked out or split. None of the above are the arm of the SDA church. They are and always have been independant ministries. And yes, these men were put out of the church, but they continue to preach the advent message.
Robert Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 None of the above are the arm of the SDA church. They are and always have been independant ministries. And yes, these men were put out of the church, but they continue to preach the advent message. They are false apostles....They teach another gospel....They are enemies of the gospel.
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: guibox 1) It is obvious that this article was written in 2000. As far as I can tell, Our Firm Foundation, Hope and every other historic arm of the SDA church are still up and running and have not been kicked out or split. None of the above are the arm of the SDA church. They are and always have been independant ministries. And yes, these men were put out of the church, but they continue to preach the advent message. Praise God that is NOT the advent message. Those who believe that message "are not saved." "I know they are lost. Because they do not know the Lord." May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: guibox Lord save me from your people... I was at one time caught up in this unholy hell, Larson and the rest....It was hard...very hard to have a change of mind....I was a devil at home, but at church a saint...I was a legalist...in fact I was the #1 legalist and would take on anyone who opposed me until I met Morris Venden....He got me thinking....Then God brought Robert Wieland in so I could understand SDA history....And then Jack Sequera so that I could understand and accept the gospel. Jack helped me understand Paul....But ultimately is was Paul that delivered from my legalistic ways... Praise God. Thanks Rob for that testimony. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Guest Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook None of the above are the arm of the SDA church. They are and always have been independant ministries. And yes, these men were put out of the church, but they continue to preach the advent message. They are false apostles....They teach another gospel....They are enemies of the gospel. You are an enemy of the gospel, and you are not even SDA. So this doesn't even concern you.
Robert Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert They are false apostles....They teach another gospel....They are enemies of the gospel.[/quote'] You are an enemy of the gospel, and you are not even SDA. So this doesn't even concern you. I preach the gospel...the truth as it is in Christ...I am not an enemy of it.... I am on the books....I would attend if it weren't for the strangle hold the legalists have on the local church....
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Quote: You are an enemy of the gospel, and you are not even SDA. So this doesn't even concern you. Richard ... because you continue to make personal attacks and lies such as the above ... Thus, in the words of Mark: "I know you are not saved." "I know you are lost. Because you do not know the Lord." May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted December 12, 2009 Administrators Posted December 12, 2009 Yep, that about sums it up... I would add that the uber-conservative stuck in history Adventists are so sure of the verbatim inspiration of EGW's written words that any changes in her own ideas over time or her own editing of earlier work is rejected. If she was taking dictation from God (their effective view of her inspiration despite half-hearted lip-service to denial of verbal inspiration...) any changes to the precise words she first wrote, especially by others, would be to change the very words of God. (And believe me I have heard that very thought expressed by some historic Adventists critical of compilations, revised editions of her work, Great Controversy especially, and the contemporary paraphrases of EGW books.) To believe otherwise threatens their view of inspiration and a dictatorial God that only reveals himself to a few open to such dictation. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Good Point Tom. I've been to the James White Library at Andrews and I have seen the original documents with Ellen's scratching out of her own words and making revisions after revisions. Which of her 'original' words are we to go by. And how can you know which of her original scratchings were the originals. And are all of her changes not inspired? How does one know which of her words were inspired and which ones needed or need revisions? May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted December 12, 2009 Administrators Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: guibox 1) It is obvious that this article was written in 2000. As far as I can tell, Our Firm Foundation, Hope and every other historic arm of the SDA church are still up and running and have not been kicked out or split. None of the above are the arm of the SDA church. They are and always have been independant ministries. And yes, these men were put out of the church, but they continue to preach the advent message. That is simply not true. At the risk of putting words in "guibox's" mouth, I think he was speaking a general sense. Of those involved in the "inquistion", as Larson mischaracterized the open dialog, that were at that time members of the church continued to be so and as far as I know still are. (Had they not been members of the SDA church at that time the dialog would not have even taken place, or would have been merely an interfaith dialog with non-SDA's as sometimes takes place.)They were not "put out of the church", i.e., disfellowshipped by or as a result of this dialog with the GC. That can only be done by a local congregation. The General Conference cannot and did not put them out of the church. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Quote: That can only be done by a local congregation. The General Conference cannot and did not put them out of the church. Excellent Point Tom. The General Conference has NO say in who are members of the Seventh day Adventist Church. They do not have a vote or a say in the matter. They can not disfellowship. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Stan Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Quote: You are an enemy of the gospel, and you are not even SDA. So this doesn't even concern you. Richard ... because you continue to make personal attacks and lies such as this ... "I know you are not saved." "I know you are lost. Because you do not know the Lord." OK Who said who was not a SDA? Who said about who "I know you are not saved." Who said about who "I know you are lost. Because you do not know the Lord." If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Guest Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook None of the above are the arm of the SDA church. They are and always have been independant ministries. And yes, these men were put out of the church, but they continue to preach the advent message. [/quote'] That is simply not true. At the risk of putting words in "guibox's" mouth, I think he was speaking a general sense. Of those involved in the "inquistion", as Larson mischaracterized the open dialog, that were at that time members of the church continued to be so and as far as I know still are. (Had they not been members of the SDA church at that time the dialog would not have even taken place, or would have been merely an interfaith dialog with non-SDA's as sometimes takes place.)They were not "put out of the church", i.e., disfellowshipped by or as a result of this dialog with the GC. That can only be done by a local congregation. The General Conference cannot and did not put them out of the church. Yes they were members of the church. But that doesn't change the fact that these are and always have been independant ministries, like I said. And the GC can and did yank there preaching credentials, just like they did with M.L. Andreason.
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