The General Conference Inquisition

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

It is not about judging people but about telling people what the Bible says will happen to those who do not have the love of the truth, that God will send them strong delusion that they might believe a lie. This simply means that they will be left to the deceptions of the enemy.

sky

And those who believe that making false statements about what somone else believes and then telling them they are going to Hell because of they believe what the person fabricated ... well ... that is clealy the work of Satan.

Are you saying that you will not be saved in willfull sin Redwood?

I do not expect this question to be answered.

Just like you have never answered the point about Jesus telling those to depart from Him that work iniquity.

My friend, (and I am your friend, even if you refuse it), your posts have been long and many, but you have never ever dealt with this simple point.

Why not?

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Hello PK :-)

If I was to tell a sinner that if they did not accept Christ, they were going to burn, would that be judging them?

If I was to tell a Christian that their belief was error and was so serious that Jesus said it would cause them to be lost, is that judging them?

This is not my judgement, it is the judgement of the Word of God.

Those that say they will be saved in willful sin, will be met by Jesus saying "I never knew you."

Now as a brother, I do not want Redwoods blood on my hands.

I am clear of the matter.

If he chooses to believe this error, when it has been pointed out to him over and over, then there is nothing else any of us can do.

But please do not assume that pointing someone to the bible and its truths is "judging" them.

Think about it my friend.

Mark :-)

Perhaps if one can be identified as being lost as a result of a certain sin in their lives, we can identify that about all of the human race.

" For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all."

James 2:10 NKJV

Perhaps one of Paul's solutions could be appropriate here. God knows how to save in the most severe circumstances.

"For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. "1 Corinthians 5:3-5 KJV

Blessings!

It is when one says they can have willfull sin in their lives and be saved, that we can take and apply James spiritual comprehension and Pauls counsel here...

[Gerr]

Just tagging on.

This situation on this thread reminds about an incident several years ago. We bought a large

water fountain made out of cement. It was so heavy it took several men to move it. It came

in four separate pieces. I used a tape measure to make sure every pan (tier) was centered on top

of the other. Afterward a few people pointed out that the lowest, largest and heaviest pan (tier)

was off center. I just ignored them because I was sure they were wrong. My wife also kept

insisting it was off center. One day my brother came to our house and saw the fountain. He

informed me the bottom pan was off center. I told him he was wrong, that I had measured it. By

this time I was getting pretty annoyed. To prove them wrong I went and got my tape measure. Lo

& behold, it was off center by something like 2 inches!

If one of my colleagues were to see me using the wrong medicine or dosage on a patient, I

may be embarrassed, but I would be very grateful if he/she told me I'd probably kill the

pt with that medicine or dose. If I were in a strange place, I would be very grateful if

someone told me I was lost and pointed me in the right direction.

[Ted Oplinger]

Very appropriate illustration, Gerry, and extremely applicable to our efforts to build correct theology.

Despite our measured efforts to keep it straight, we may invariably go wrong....and deny it until we set out to prove someone else they are...oops, right.

[LifeHiscost]

Very appropriate illustration, Gerry, and extremely applicable to our efforts to build correct theology.

Despite our measured efforts to keep it straight, we may invariably go wrong....and deny it until we set out to prove someone else they are...oops, right.

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. "

1 Cor 3:6-16 KJV

Blessings!

[oldsailor29]

We are all going to hell.

[LifeHiscost]

It is when one says they can have willfull sin in their lives and be saved, that we can take and apply James spiritual comprehension and Pauls counsel here...

I would agree with that, not ruling out other certain scenarios

equally applicable.

Blessings!

[John317]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

That's for sure!

Is there any topic that should be considered more than this and what it leads in to?

If there is no concern for this topic' date=' then there is no concern for ones salvation.

I personally, can never hear enough of this topic and welcome Sky posting on it as often and as openly as he sees fit in the Lord.

[/quote']

I completely agree with you, Mark. And there is something desperately wrong when Christians, especially SDA Christians, discourage people from talking of Christ's merits. We need more, not less, of Christ's righteousness and merits.

[John317]

We are all going to hell.

Hell, of course, can mean the grave, and for sure, if Christ doesn't come before we all die, we will all go to hell in that sense.

We would all of us be destined for hell except for the grace of God in Christ. But praise God, Christ has reversed that destiny and now we are destined for heaven-- if we hold on to faith in Christ to the end.

[LifeHiscost]

hockey pucky....judging is judging, no matter how you dress it!!

I disagree about the hockey pucky but I do agree with you about the judging. Whenever the Word is made mention of, it presents or presupposes a judgment of some certain result. For the believer of the Word it presents a joyful experience for redemption, past, present or future, and for the continuing unbeliever it presents a judgment of separation from the healing presence of Jesus.

There are a couple of promises that are able to bring healing to anyone found in either position.

"So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it." Isaiah 55:11 NKJV

" Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up." Hosea 6:1 KJV

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

We are all going to hell.

True for most since hell is merely descriptive of the grave, but not for those who are alive at Jesus' second coming and receive

translation.

"For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 NKJV

Blessings!

[Gerr]

We are all going to hell.

Time to get off this hell-bound ship?

[Woody]

Quote:

My friend, (and I am your friend, even if you refuse it), your posts have been long and many, but you have never ever dealt with this simple point.

Why not?

Mark

I've discussed all of these issues Mark. They are ignored or twisted. So, why would I have a serious discussion with some one who lies and contorts?

And why would you care about the beliefs of someone you have proclaimed is going to Hell?

At some point ... a person needs to back off. I've asked both Mark and John to stop 'saving' me. I have indicated that it is not our job to save others. It is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict. So ... back to Hell I go

[Woody]

Quote:

If I were in a strange place, I would be very grateful if

someone told me I was lost and pointed me in the right direction.

Trouble is ... what if they were pointing you to Hell and claiming it was heaven?

[teresaq]

Quote:

So why don't we talk more of His merits?

is there a place where they are listed and discussed?

id like in on that discussion. :)

[skyblue888]

I have been searching this topic since 1999 and I have not yet found a list of the merits of Christ from the pen of inspiration. Christ through His infinite sacrifice is full of divine merits and He is pleading them before the Father in our behalf. Our part, or rather, our privilege, is to claim them on a daily basis. As we do this the Father receives us to Himself and He clothes us with the glistening vesture of Christ's righteousness which enables us to live in harmony with the precepts of His holy law.

sky

[jasd]

>>This is very off-topic... but, hey. <<

Perhaps, however, but treasure is often found in the seams...

[Woody]

It seams to me that some direct us further and further away from the simple Gospel message and make it so complicated and burdensome that no one in their right mind would be attracted to it.

[Gerr]

Quote:

If I were in a strange place, I would be very grateful if

someone told me I was lost and pointed me in the right direction.

Trouble is ... what if they were pointing you to Hell and claiming it was heaven?

You've got a map on hand. See where you are and are headed in the map. If one person says you're going the right way but 20 others show you in the map telling you you're headed the wrong way, whose counsel would you take?

Prov 15:22 "Without counsel, plans go awry, But in the multitude of counselors they are established." NKJ

[Woody]

For sure ... I would not be seeking counsel here.

The popular way is the way of destruction. The way of God is the Narrow way. Not the popular one. I seek counsel from Godly men and women.

[Gerr]

It seams to me that some direct us further and further away from the simple Gospel message and make it so complicated and burdensome that no one in their right mind would be attracted to it.

The gospel is really not that complicated, but it can be burdensome depending on your point of view - burdensome because it means crucifixion of the "old man" of self. And self doth protest too much!

1. All have sinned.

2. The wages of sin is death.

3. Jesus took that death for you & me.

4. Repent (change of mind) and be converted (180 degree change of direction).

5. Believe/receive His death for you.

6. Walk as He walked.

Or put it another way:

1. Two dear friends quarrel.

2. One commits unmentionable acts of betrayal that separates them.

3. The other covers it up and wants reconciliation.

4. The price? Acknowledgment of guilt on the part of the offender. Blood of a dear Son on the other.

Or yet another way:

1. There are two antagonistic parties.

2. One extends a Covenant of Peace.

3. The terms of the Covenant is: I will be your God if you accept me as your God, and you will be my people.

[skyblue888]

It seams to me that some direct us further and further away from the simple Gospel message and make it so complicated and burdensome that no one in their right mind would be attracted to it.

Are you saying that to have our eyes directed to Jesus, to His divine Person, and to His all-sufficient merits, to the necessity of appropriating His merits to ourselves by faith is complicating the Gospel when the pen of inspiration tells us that this is the very Gospel message presented in a way that is just as simple as accepting the letters of the alphabet?

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Quote:

If I were in a strange place, I would be very grateful if

someone told me I was lost and pointed me in the right direction.

Trouble is ... what if they were pointing you to Hell and claiming it was heaven?

You've got a map on hand. See where you are and are headed in the map. If one person says you're going the right way but 20 others show you in the map telling you you're headed the wrong way, whose counsel would you take?

Prov 15:22 "Without counsel, plans go awry, But in the multitude of counselors they are established." NKJ

I believe the multitude of counselors spoken of here are not men but the words of God and the testimonies of His Spirit.

sky

[Gerr]

For sure ... I would not be seeking counsel here.

The popular way is the way of destruction. The way of God is the Narrow way. Not the popular one. I seek counsel from Godly men and women.

I, for one, obviously failed to be a friend nor godly enough to have my counsel sought. For that I am truly sorry.

[Woody]

It's friends like those who tell me I am going to Hell because they purposefully twist and falsely quote me ... that I don't have any need for. Any who fall into that catagory ... can feel free to be sorry.

I am sick and tired of people telling me what I believe after I have clearly told them I don't believe it. What kind of a friend is that? It apparently is what they like ... so I will give them what they like.

The words "you believe" are almost always followed by something that the person does not believe. So, why are we doing it?