Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Stan ... I see now that I was not very clear on this. Sorry. Richard stated Rob was not an SDA when he knows that Rob is. I was also using Marks quotes and statements about people as follows : "I know you are not saved." "I know you are lost. Because you do not know the Lord." Sorry I meshed them into one confusing post. I will attempt to see if I can edit it and make it clearer. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Stan Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Which Church does Rob go to and hold membership at? Which Rob? and Which Mark? what are their screen names? If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Guest Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Robert isn't an SDA. At least thats what he has told me in the past.
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 He has repeatedly stated his membership is on the books. Just look a couple of posts back for the most recent. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Which Church does Rob go to and hold membership at? Which Rob? and Which Mark? what are their screen names? Rob as in Robert Mark as in Twilight. And at which local church is Rob's membership? I don't know if we need to ask such personal and private information. I certainly am not at liberty to hand out such info. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
SivartM Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 But if we knew his home church, we could call them and get him in trouble. Isn't that standard protocol when we disagree with someone? "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 But if we knew his home church, we could call them and get him in trouble. Isn't that standard protocol when we disagree with someone? Unfortunately ... that is why I don't use my name on the internet. There are so many freaks out there and you never know what they will do. We've had our car splashed with paint just due to crazies like this. People will resort to violence just because they feel you are not conservative enough. Amazing. Anyways ... yes this happens as we know. I take Rob at his word that his membership is intact. I don't think he should reveal where . May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Stan Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 I stepped over the line when I asked where his membership is. I really do not have to know when it is. If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 TU May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators Kevin H Posted December 12, 2009 Moderators Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: oldsailor29 I think I get your point, but the Father and Christ are in the heavenly sanctuary, not in hell. They can be anywhere through the agency of the Holy Spirit, of course. No John, you don't get the point, as Oldsailor pointed out in his next post. But this is the discussion of what does the Bible and Mrs. White teach as the nature of hell fire and the belief that the glory of God, the love of God is the eternal fire. Isaiah 33 saying that the righteous will live in the eternal fire. We are all in God's pressence in the end of time. For some of us this act is heaven and we want to just get closer and closer to Jesus and Jesus becomes an ark of security. To others of us this exact same thing, God's pressence becomes a consuming fire. Heaven and hell are two responses to being in the visible physical pressence of God.
pnattmbtc Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 No John, you don't get the point, as Oldsailor pointed out in his next post. But this is the discussion of what does the Bible and Mrs. White teach as the nature of hell fire and the belief that the glory of God, the love of God is the eternal fire. Isaiah 33 saying that the righteous will live in the eternal fire. We are all in God's pressence in the end of time. For some of us this act is heaven and we want to just get closer and closer to Jesus and Jesus becomes an ark of security. To others of us this exact same thing, God's pressence becomes a consuming fire. Heaven and hell are two responses to being in the visible physical pressence of God. Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
oldsailor29 Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 We are all going to hell. Prs God, frm whm blssngs flw http://www.zoelifestyle.com/jmccall
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted December 13, 2009 Administrators Posted December 13, 2009 ...And the GC can and did yank there preaching credentials, just like they did with M.L. Andreason. And that is likewise untrue. Since these men, Larson in particular, were already with an independent ministry, they did not have any "preaching" or any other credentials issued by the General Conference that could be "yanked". Here is the Biblical Research Institute report on the "inquisition" of which Larson was writing - http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/Independent%20Ministries/HopeInternationalRpt.htm What you have posted here is his response to this report. The other independent ministry participants were far more humble and gracious in response and made efforts toward reconciliation. Larson remained defiant and recalcitrant in his position. No final and definite action was taken by the GC with regard to this as I recall. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Guest Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 Just because someone is part of an independent ministry, doesn't mean they have no ties to the conference, or that they don't also have credentials from them. Doug Batchelor is a case in point. He has "Amazing Facts" and is also the pastor of the Sacremento CA church.
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted December 13, 2009 Administrators Posted December 13, 2009 ...The current topic was started why? It is an old story, 9 yrs ago, you could call it a dead horse. So why post? An agenda, perhaps? We might wonder about several other topics that are started. Could it possibly be for the reason of causing the ruckus that has followed? Are persons falling into that trap? I don't believe the topics are posted with out the poster knowing or realizing what will follow. So my question is, what is the motive? Does it enhance others experience with God, let alone each other? Is posted to boost ones own beliefs above others?... Yes, most excellent questions. I am glad you have asked them. I have wondered the same things. I look forward to Richard's hopefully forthright answers. And I would hope that he first takes the time to read and think seriously about the BRI report (for which I have provided a link) on the matter and to compare the substance and tone with the screed of Larson that he posted for, up to this point, inexplicable reasons. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted December 13, 2009 Administrators Posted December 13, 2009 Amazing Facts is not an independent ministry. It is fully qualified and recognized as a denominational organization. It is a ministry of the Northern California Conference and the church of which Doug is pastor is a part of that conference. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Moderators John317 Posted December 13, 2009 Moderators Posted December 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 I think I get your point, but the Father and Christ are in the heavenly sanctuary, not in hell. They can be anywhere through the agency of the Holy Spirit, of course. A sinner in their presence would be in hell. I think it is a good idea to keep an open mind about God's abilities and where He dwells and where He is capable of being. 1) We can certainly say that the sinner would not be happy in heaven, in God's presence. He would be miserable and in torment, for sure. But that is not what the Bible means by "hell." So when we speak of it that way, we can cause people to be confused. Why not use the language and concepts of Scripture and of the Spirit of prophecy? The Gehenna of fire will be on the surface of the earth after the Great White Throne Judgment, when fire comes down from God out of heaven and consumes the wicked. 2) Both the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy teach that Jesus and the Father are in the heavenly sanctuary. The Investigative Judgment is taking place there and Jesus is pleading His blood before the Father on behalf of sinners. See Daniel 7: 9-14; Hebrews 8: 1-2; Revelation. Remember that Jesus Himself has chosen to limit Himself to a human body. He's not in the image of God any more but in the image of a servant, even that of a human being. He is still God come in the flesh. 2 John 7. The participle is continuous present, signifying that Jesus is still in the flesh and will come the second time in the flesh. Acts 1: 11. Does the Bible or the Spirit of prophecy show the Father or Jesus Christ anywhere but in the temple of God in heaven, between the first century and the Second Coming? God is capable of anything, but we're not talking about what God is capable of doing or where He's capable of being but of where Inspiration actually says God the Father is. As said before, by means of His Spirit, the Father can be anywhere. But He himself has a form and a body, though not a material, physical body. See EW. The book of Revelation shows that all of God's activity in saving us proceeds from the sanctuary in heaven. It is not empty but our God and Jesus Christ are literally there FOR US. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Guest Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: oldsailor29 A sinner in their presence would be in hell. I think it is a good idea to keep an open mind about God's abilities and where He dwells and where He is capable of being.[/quote'] 1) We can certainly say that the sinner would not be happy in heaven, in God's presence. He would be miserable and in torment, for sure. But that is not what the Bible means by "hell." So when we speak of it that way, we can cause people to be confused. Why not use the language and concepts of Scripture and of the Spirit of prophecy? The Gehenna of fire will be on the surface of the earth after the Great White Throne Judgment, when fire comes down from God out of heaven and consumes the wicked. 2) Both the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy teach that Jesus and the Father are in the heavenly sanctuary. The Investigative Judgment is taking place there and Jesus is pleading His blood before the Father on behalf of sinners. See Daniel 7: 9-14; Hebrews 8: 1-2; Revelation. Remember that Jesus Himself has chosen to limit Himself to a human body. He's not in the image of God any more but in the image of a servant, even that of a human being. He is still God come in the flesh. 2 John 7. The verb is present continuous. Does the Bible or the Spirit of prophecy show the Father or Jesus Christ anywhere but in the temple of God in heaven, between the first century and the Second Coming? God is capable of anything, but we're not talking about what God is capable of doing or where He's capable of being but of what Inspiration actually says about the topic. The book of Revelation shows that all of God's activity in saving us proceeds from the sanctuary in heaven. Amen John
oldsailor29 Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 1) We can certainly say that the sinner would not be happy in heaven, in God's presence. He would be miserable and in torment, for sure. But that is not what the Bible means by "hell." So when we speak of it that way, we can cause people to be confused. Why not use the language and concepts of Scripture and of the Spirit of prophecy? The Gehenna of fire will be on the surface of the earth after the Great White Throne Judgment, when fire comes down from God out of heaven and consumes the wicked. 2) Both the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy teach that Jesus and the Father are in the heavenly sanctuary. The Investigative Judgment is taking place there and Jesus is pleading His blood before the Father on behalf of sinners. See Daniel 7: 9-14; Hebrews 8: 1-2; Revelation. Remember that Jesus Himself has chosen to limit Himself to a human body. He's not in the image of God any more but in the image of a servant, even that of a human being. He is still God come in the flesh. 2 John 7. The participle is continuous present, signifying that Jesus is still in the flesh and will come the second time in the flesh. Acts 1: 11. Does the Bible or the Spirit of prophecy show the Father or Jesus Christ anywhere but in the temple of God in heaven, between the first century and the Second Coming? God is capable of anything, but we're not talking about what God is capable of doing or where He's capable of being but of where Inspiration actually says God the Father is. As said before, by means of His Spirit, the Father can be anywhere. But He himself has a form and a body, though not a material, physical body. See EW. The book of Revelation shows that all of God's activity in saving us proceeds from the sanctuary in heaven. It is not empty but our God and Jesus Christ are literally there FOR US. God is both finite and infinite, dwelling in heaven and outside of all creation. I am never comfortable with the limits placed on God by some interpretations of scripture. Prs God, frm whm blssngs flw http://www.zoelifestyle.com/jmccall
Woody Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 Well CoA ... I think you're right. I can smell an agenda a mile away. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
LifeHiscost Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 An open mind is absolutely necessary for above mentioned attitudes. However there are certain characteristics we can accept as revealed through the Word without equivocation. Such as_________ "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." 2 Timothy 2:13 KJV "Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures... "1 Corinthians 15:1-3 NASB Blessings! Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 Praise God that is NOT the advent message. Those who believe that message "are not saved." "I know they are lost. Because they do not know the Lord." At the risk of sounding contrary, I find it interesting there have been found those easy to pronounce lost, when on another thread there were used many posts criticizing vehemently others supposedly placing you in a similar category. "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap."Gal 6:7 NKJV Regards! Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: guibox Lord save me from your people... But ultimately is was Paul that delivered from my legalistic ways... Now it's our turn to cast out the legalists and put them in their proper place. There is never so self-righteous as an ex-anything, not recognizing there was no deliverance except by Jesus willingness to offer His power. " Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?" Romans 2:1-3 NKJV Regards! Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 Our goal should be to lift others towards God, the Bible being the source, and then let the Holy Spirit do its work. We are not asked at any time to try on the work of The Holy Spirit, would be utter foolishness. Are our own thoughts, opinions and ideas so important that we would even for a moment, bring down an other soul? NO, we should be only lifting up! The underlined is a worthy goal but unless one totally ignores Biblical counsel, more is required than "Live and let live" or "I'm OK, your OK". "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Revelation 14:12 KJV "....strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”" Acts 14:22 NKJV "“I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate."Rev 2:13-15 NKJV Regards! Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 We can say He is our loving creator and redeemer, and He is the one infinite and personal God, and there is no other. Other than that, there is little we can know about God. "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? " 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. John 14:7-9 Blessings! Lift Jesus up!!
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