Robert Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 My understanding is that a person must achieve righteousness by entering the process of sanctification....My understanding states that Jesus died to pay the penalty for my sin, but I am fully responsible for eliminating that sin from my own life..... Salvation by works, legalism. Again, Jesus "thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself!" Until you reach this state the law condemns you. Even if you reach this state you have all those sins behind you and these will condemn you. SO to be under the law means death. Quote
Robert Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Robert what you are teaching is a basic babylonian doctrine that denies the power of God to do for the sinner what He has said He will do. God can do nothing in you without your full consent. Apparently you aren't giving God full authority over your nature or you would be living Christ's life. Since you are failing to live up to the law you stand condemned now and in the judgment. And what does EGW say concerning Christ's life? "Jesus...thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself." In heaven you will do the same. Hence, "none will think of self,...but all, from pure, genuine (agape) love, will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." And how will this take place - by looking out for yourself? No! Instead "you will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth." If you guys lived Christ's life here on earth you would share His poverty as well. Hence, "those who follow Him must share his poverty." Quote
Robert Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Human love is always trying to ascend, whether it be socially, politically, academically, materially, economically, or even religiously; we are all slaves to our “own way” [isaiah 53:6; Philippians 2:21]. As we saw in our last study, we are all shaped in “iniquity” (bent to self). Consequently all of us, without exception, are coming short of God’s glory or agape love [Romans 3:23]. [Jack Sequeira] Quote
pnattmbtc Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 p:Robert, I don't understand why you ask people personal questions when discussing things. Robert:Because folks like Richard desire to place me back under the law....That's personal! Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Robert Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Pnattmbtc, you said a whole bunch of nothing! Apparently we see eye to eye on the character of God, but on salvation you seem to be siding with those who are nothing more than modern day Judaizers! Too bad. Adventists are notoriously bad about trying to place believers under law. It's a subtle form of legalism. My question to such self-righteousness is are you living Christ's life? After asking such it usually gets deathly quite and if you listen closely you can hear the crickets. teehe There are many blinded by their own self-righteousness because they refuse to see the marked difference between their lives and Christ's. If they were honest (perhaps they are honestly deceived) they would reject this heresy of salvation by works and humbly come to the foot of the cross. If not the law will be their judge.... Quote
Dr. Rich Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Robert, every kingdom has a set of laws. If you want to be in the Kingdom of Heaven, then one MUST, without question, obey these laws. This in itself does not make keeping these laws 'legalism'. It simply is the whole duty of man IF he wants to live in God's kingdom. After all, what do you do with Rev. 12:17 if you don't agree with what I wrote? Quote
karl Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Robert, every kingdom has a set of laws. If you want to be in the Kingdom of Heaven, then one MUST, without question, obey these laws. This in itself does not make keeping these laws 'legalism'. It simply is the whole duty of man IF he wants to live in God's kingdom. After all, what do you do with Rev. 12:17 if you don't agree with what I wrote? Amen, Dr Rich. There are two kinds of legalism. One has God legally solving the sin problem. The other has man legally solving the sin problem. Both forms of legalism ignore the fact that the problem is that men are rebels and must be converted into loyal subjects of God. Salvation is God, working with the cooperation of the rebel, in the conversion of rebel to loyal subject. Nothing short of that will do. Quote
Robert Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Robert, every kingdom has a set of laws. If you want to be in the Kingdom of Heaven, then one MUST, without question, obey these laws. This in itself does not make keeping these laws 'legalism'. It simply is the whole duty of man IF he wants to live in God's kingdom. After all, what do you do with Rev. 12:17 if you don't agree with what I wrote? Okay then I assume that you are living Christ's life, which answered all the law? "Jesus...thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself." Quote
Musicman1228 Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Good on you, Karl and Dr. Rich. God's entire universe operates under a strict set of laws, each of which is immutable. What happens to a person that tries to break the law of gravity? It is not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end. And that is exactly the same with the 10 Commandments; you can 'say' that they are unimportant and believe that they no longer apply because of 'grace', but watch out for that sudden stop when the 7th Trumpet sounds and you find yourself outside of the Kingdom of God. God's Kingdom is not legalistic, but it IS lawful. Anyone that maintains that you can be unlawful, saying that the Law has been done away with because of the death of Jesus Christ, and still be in the Kingdom of Heaven will find themselves outside of the New Jerusalem after it comes to earth at the end of the 1000 years. Quote
Guest Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Musicman, I am agreeing with you 100% on this 3rd day of April, 2010. I am putting this on my calendar, because who knows if this will ever happen again? But it's good to agree on something. Can I get an Amen? Quote
pnattmbtc Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Pnattmbtc, you said a whole bunch of nothing! Apparently we see eye to eye on the character of God, but on salvation you seem to be siding with those who are nothing more than modern day Judaizers! Too bad. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Guest Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Well somebody needs to say it. You're WRONG Robert. Wrong and illogical. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 There are two kinds of legalism. One has God legally solving the sin problem. The other has man legally solving the sin problem. Both forms of legalism ignore the fact that the problem is that men are rebels and must be converted into loyal subjects of God. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Robert Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 You're WRONG Robert. Wrong and illogical. "Jesus...thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself." On the other hand, Richard, you are bent to self. If you call that commandment keeping you are deceived. You are a sinner and the law condemns all sin especially self-seeking. So if you think that folks get to heaven by their obedience then according to your own theology you won't be making it.... Quote
Robert Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Robert, you're being illogical. This is what I've pointed out. Whatever.... Now let me ask the same of you...."Jesus...thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself" - can you say the same of yourself? Quote
Guest Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Robert just because you're selfish to the point of not being able to imagine life any other way, does not mean that everybody is that way. Quote
Dr. Rich Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Robert, Jesus said that He laid down His life and took it up again on His own--right? If so, then your quote from whoever is wrong as Jesus had His own brain to think, plan and do things on His own, but He also said His whole mission was to testify to the truth and speak the words that His Father wanted Him to speak. You ask if I am Christ like and I would like to think I am--but also know I have not been sealed. My motto is to seek ye first the KOH and His righteousness! Quote
Musicman1228 Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Musicman, I am agreeing with you 100% on this 3rd day of April, 2010. I am putting this on my calendar, because who knows if this will ever happen again? But it's good to agree on something. Can I get an Amen? Amen, and again I say Amen! Quote
Robert Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Robert just because you're selfish to the point of not being able to imagine life any other way, does not mean that everybody is that way. So you are not selfish? Everything you've done is for the advancement of others? You have always exhibited that love that seeketh not her own, but another's wealth? Quote
Guest Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Robert what are you doing up at 4:00 in the morning? I'm worried about your well being. Quote
Robert Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Robert, Jesus said that He laid down His life and took it up again on His own--right? Jesus did all that for you! He saved you in Himself. In Him you are complete. As to the quote it is EGW. Let's go Bible: "Who is more important? Is it the one at the table, or the one who serves? Isn't it the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves." [Luke 22:27] "Whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all." [Mark 10:44] What is Christ saying? Namely that in worldly terms the one being served is number one! But in terms of heaven the number one guy is the one who lives to serve. He doesn't think of himself and what he can get out of life...instead he lives for the advancement of others. Quote
Robert Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Robert what are you doing up at 4:00 in the morning? I'm worried about your well being. And you? Quote
Guest Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 I've been talking to my friend Jodie, and playing my guitar, but I'm going to bed now. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 p:Robert, you're being illogical. This is what I've pointed out. Whatever.... Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
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