Bible PROPHECY for the ENDtime

[jsm]

The several comments by Bob Ryan and the one shared by Music Man are appreciated, and I will respond in separate posts.

I quoted several references about the grand review, ending with the following [emphasis now added]:

“Not many years hence [in the future] there is to be a GRAND and just REVIEW of ALL [note, 'ALL'] characters. The HARVEST [the grand review] is not far ahead.” EGW in YI 11/26/1896.

“Are we prepared for THE GRAND REVIEW? It is coming on. Satan is gathering all of his beautiful knowledge that he had when he was an angel of light and he is coming in to deceive the very elect with that very knowledge, and we want to be in a position where we can work intelligently,-- where we can work in faith and bring souls to a knowledge of the truth of THE GRAND REVIEW that will take place when he tells them that he is going to have the whole world as his subjects and they will gather under his banner, but we must stand higher.” EGW in LLM 541.

BOB'S COMMENT:

Ok - but I think that is pretty much the standard view of the IJ is it not? 2Cor 5:10 brings up the same point "we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ to give an account of the deeds done in the body whether they be good or evil".

MY RESPONSE:

I believe the standard view of the IJ is that decisions are made as each case is investigated, and the HARVEST takes place at the second coming of Christ.

But the Bible and EGW make it plain that the HARVEST is review and decision time in heaven, and takes place in a FINAL PHASE of the pre-advent judgment -- at the very END-period of PROBATIONARY time.

Compare this with any standard court procedure: Investigation, review, decision.

Notice this significant difference:

When Jesus comes in the clouds, “He will send His angels…and they will GATHER TOGETHER His elect.” Matthew 24:30-31.

In the HARVEST, Jesus “will send out His angels, and they will GATHER OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend…Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom.” Matthew 13:40-42.

The HARVEST takes place AT “the end of the [probationary] age.” Matthew 13:39-40.

The “HARVEST IS the END of probationary time.” COL 72.

The second coming of Jesus is AFTER the end of probationary time.

“The tares are permitted to grow among the wheat, to have all the advantage of sun and shower; but IN THE TIME OF HARVEST….CHRIST HIMSELF WILL DECIDE who are worthy to dwell with the family of heaven. He will JUDGE every man according to his words and his works.” COL 75.

“THE FIFTH CHAPTER OF REVELATION needs to be closely studied. It is of great importance to those who shall act a part in the work of God for these last days…WHEN GOD PRONOUNCES JUDGMENT upon the children of men.” 9T 267.

Jesus takes the record book in chapter 5 and [as in John 5:22 & 27] HE ALONE begins a final review before blotting out sins. This will be what Ellen White called “the GRAND REVIEW of the JUDGMENT” for BOTH the living and the dead. BT 12/1/1907; 1T 131.

Again: "IN THE TIME OF HARVEST….CHRIST HIMSELF WILL DECIDE who are worthy to dwell with the family of heaven. He will JUDGE every man." COL 75.

"God designed that the Prince of sufferers in humanity should be JUDGE of the whole world [see John 5:22 & 27]...HE ALONE is to pronounce the sentence of reward or of punishment." EGW in RH 11/22/1898.

"The [entire] court was seated" for the INVESTIGATION. Daniel 7:10.

But CHRIST ALONE will JUDGE every man. John 5:22.

[Dr. Rich]

Compare Matthew 13:40-43 with Dan. 12:3&10 Notice in verse 27, who it is that discovers the difference between the Wheat and the Tares? Also notice that those with 'insight' will shine and will lead many to righteousness? Notice too, that these will understand end time prophecy--but none of the wicked will. Humm? Please notice the two judgments in Rev. 11. One is for the Kingdom and the other is for the Nations of the world. Do you see how all of this fits so nicely?

Now go to Rev. 1:1-3 and see who Jesus intended to give the revelation to. Did you notice in verse one that Jesus wants to ONLY show His 'bondservants' (slaves), and that these bondservants will be 'blessed' (sanctified) by reading these words (all of the book of Revelation) AND understanding it?

This is FYEO--aka: FOR YOUR (Bond Servants) EYES ONLY. It has nothing to do with the World and the wicked Nations of the world. This is why this group is judged first and sealed by God prior to the start of the great tribulation.

[jsm]

Matthew 13:27 says the "servants of the owner" are the ones who noticed tares among the wheat. But in verses 29-30 the owner [representing Christ] is the one who says, "Let both grow together until the HARVEST [the end of probationary time. v 39-40], and "AT THE TIME OF THE HARVEST I [Jesus. v 41] will say to the reapers [the angels. v 41], 'FIRST gather together THE TARES.'"

Do not limit application of the word "servants" in Revelation 1:1.

An ANGEL told John, "I am your fellow SERVANT." Revelation 22:9.

Yes, even "the ANGELS desire to look into" the meaning of prophecies and the plan of salvation. 1 Peter 1:9-12.

Also, do not limit Revelation 1:3, which reads:

"Blessed is HE [or SHE] that readeth, and THEY that HEAR the words of this prophecy, and KEEP those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand."

That clearly means "EVERY man [or woman] that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book." Revelation 22:18.

EVERY person can become a "servant" of Christ, and ANY servant must be on guard against temptations. Revelation 2:20.

[Dr. Rich]

Right on jsm! The word is BONDSERVANTS and not just servants. What I attempted to show you is that these bondservants are the ones that first noticed the difference between the wheat and the tares.

right now--this very minute--can you tell the difference? We are not talking about Christians verses non-christians-we are talking about ALL of those who call themselves a christian and believe in Jesus Christ.

Can you tell the difference? If so, please explain. If not, then perhaps you are not yet one of the bondservants. Why? Because there is a small group of people who are truth seekers and have made a discovery that will shock their church and probably the whole Christian world when it is fully known and this discovery shows clearly the difference from the wheat and the tares.

[jsm]

Rich, I will not continue to discuss your "servant" topic here.

Your ideas detract from the basic purpose of this thread, which is to obtain directed comments and suggestions about my paper at:

http://endtimesurprise.blogspot.com/

As I told MM, "your new scriptural method for prophetic interpretations may have great value; but I urge you to use a separate thread for further discussion about it. Then, if you wish, just direct people from here to that thread with a simple 10 or 12 word notice."

[Dr. Rich]

Stan, not sure how much education you have so I will not discuss facts that you can't understand, sorry about that.

[John317]

Dr. Rich, on the basis of his writings and his posts, I'd say he has a pretty good education. Besides, there's no standard of education that people must pass in order to take part in discussions. All are welcome, as long as they follow the rules of the Forum.

[jsm]

NUMBER 2

Bob Ryan comments on the following:

Quote:

The chapters 6 series of events may signal the start of judgment time for the living.

"Revelation 6 & 7 are full of meaning. Terrible are the judgments of God revealed." EGW in Maranatha 284.

"The Captain of our salvation was ordering the battle and sending support to His soldiers. His power was mightily displayed, encouraging them to press the battle to the gates. He taught them terrible things in righteousness as He led them on step by step, conquering and to conquer." [First seal] 8T 41.

BOB:

Good point - that may very well be the Loud Cry and Latter Rain event.

MY RESPONSE:

I should not have used the 8T 41 reference in connection with the first seal.

I agree 8T 41 probably is about the Loud Cry, and may apply as a first seal event. But the Loud Cry may not begin until the seventh seal period. There is certainly room for a difference of opinion here.

The first seal may compare more with the times when Christ sent out 70 and 12 of His followers. They were filled with the Holy Spirit, but it was not yet the special Early Rain power that brought so many to Christ.

A better reference for the first seal may be this: “AS THE END DRAWS NEAR, the work of God is to INCREASE in full strength and purity and holiness. The workers are to be FILLED with love for God and for one another [as a fruit of the Spirit]...They will plant the standard of truth upon FORTRESSES TILL THEN HELD BY SATAN, and with shouts of victory take possession of them. They bear the scars of battle, but there comes to them the comforting message that the Lord will lead them on, CONQUERING AND TO CONQUER.” EGW in RH 9/17/1903.

This sounds like the great SDA MISSION ADVANCES that have been taking place since the 1990s.

EGW uses that Revelation 6:2 [first seal] “conquering and to conquer" phrase many times in her writings to describe Christ leading His people to victory all through probationary time.

But my understanding is that the Latter Rain is symbolized in Revelation 8:5, in connnection with the seven trumpets of warning—symbolizing the Loud Cry.

The “noises, thundering, lightnings, and an earthquake” from the heavenly sanctuary in 8:5 are NOT to destroy, as with the first two trumpet events. They are symbols of God’s presence, as at Sinai. [Exodus 19:16,18]. In the time of the 7th seal His presence will be made evident in the earth through the Holy Spirit being given in the LATTER RAIN. As in nature, this latter rain comes in GREAT ABUNDANCE compared with the early rain of “fire” and the noise “like a mighty wind” in Acts 2:2-4.

[jsm]

My university training and experience has been primarily in healthcare administration. And along with that, I have been a life-long Bible student - including helpful dialog with many SDA scholars. But I certainly have much more to learn, and continue to search.

[jsm]

Bob Ryan comments on the following:

Quote:

The war, famine, and pestilence of seals 2 through 4 may bring on Sunday laws, which EGW said will be followed by the fifth seal events:

BOB:

Ok - but you did not give a reference for war, famine, pestilence being in the future.

MY RESPONSE:

EGW wrote:

“I saw that God had children who do not see and keep the Sabbath. They have not rejected the light upon it.

And AT THE COMMENCEMENT OF THE TIME OF TROUBLE, we were FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST as we went forth and proclaimed the Sabbath more fully [first seal?].

This enraged the churches and nominal Adventists, as they could not refute the Sabbath truth. And at this time God's chosen all saw clearly that we had the truth, and they came out and endured the persecution with us. [This process continues until the close of probation]

I saw THE SWORD [seal 2],

FAMINE [seal 3],

PESTILENCE, AND GREAT CONFUSION [seal 4] in the land.

The wicked thought that we had brought the judgments upon them, and they rose up and took counsel to RID THE EARTH OF US [seal 5],

thinking that then the evil would be stayed.” EW 33.

“‘The commencement of that time of trouble,’ here mentioned [p 33] does NOT refer to the time when the plagues shall begin to be poured out, but to a short period just before they are poured out, while Christ is in the sanctuary. At that time, while the work of salvation is closing, trouble will be coming on the earth, and the nations will be angry, yet held in check so as not to prevent the work of the third angel. At that time [seventh seal?] the "LATTER RAIN," or refreshing from the presence of the Lord, will come, to give power to the loud voice of the third angel [seven trumpets?], and prepare the saints to stand in the period when the seven last plagues shall be poured out.” EW 95.

"I saw that the powers of earth are now being shaken and that EVENTS COME IN ORDER. War, and rumors of war, sword, famine, and pestilence are first to shake the powers of earth, then the voice of God will shake the sun, moon, and stars, and this earth also [sIXTH SEAL?]." EW 41.

[jsm]

Bob Ryan comments on the following:

Quote:

"By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness….

"The people of God will then be plunged into those scenes of affliction and distress which prophets have described as the time of Jacob's trouble. The cries of the faithful, persecuted ones ascend to heaven. And as the blood of Abel cried from the ground, there are voices also crying to God from martyrs' graves, from the sepulchers of the sea, from mountain caverns, from convent vaults: 'How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?' [5th seal - Revelation 6:10]" 5T 451.

Chapter 7 shows 144,000 living Christians being sealed as a sign they have been Judged by Christ and found faithful. They are called “first fruits” indicating an additional “great multitude” will be saved. Revelation 14:1-5; 7:9-14. .

This great multitude of dead who passed through great tribulation are given white robes of approval. This “tribulation” may represent, in a primary way, the events of chapters 8 through 11 when there will be major persecution and deceptions. They have not developed characters [like the 144,000] able to stand firm through the last plagues, but large numbers will then demonstrate their loyalty through martyrdom.

There is silence in heaven as the seventh seal is opened, as an indication something special is about to take place.

Seven angels are given trumpets to sound the last warnings before probation closes, while Satan does his best to deceive and destroy.

BOB:

I thought the silence was placed there after the rocks and mountains were called down on the wicked at the second coming - during the end of the 6th seal.

MY RESPONSE:

EGW seems to place sixth seal events before the Revelation 18 loud cry. See the last quote below:

From the SDA Bible Commentary, vol 7, p 787.

“Another view explains this [seventh seal] silence in heaven to be a silence of awesome expectation...So understood, this silence of the seventh seal FORMS A BRIDGE between the opening of the seals and the blowing of the trumpets, for it implies that with the seventh seal the revelation is not complete—there is still more to be explained concerning God’s program of events in the great controversy with evil.”

I agree with this view. The blowing of the seven trumpets represents God’s great and final LOUD CALL TO REPENTANCE that will come in connection with the Latter Rain.

The time when the sevenfold trumpet calls of warning are sounding may be connected with the Revelation 18:4 call out of Babylon. And that would give added significance to the following:

This places Revelation 18 after the fifth seal:

"When the fifth seal was opened, John the Revelator in vision saw beneath the altar the company that were slain for the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. After this came the scenes described in the eighteenth of Revelation, when those who are faithful and true are called out from Babylon. [Revelation 18:1-5 quoted]. EGW Man. Releases, vol 20, p 14.

This places Revelation 18 after the sixth seal:

“'What terrible scenes will take place when the Lord shall arise to shake terribly the earth! [isaiah 2:19-21 & sixth seal] Then the words of Rev. 18:1-3 will be fulfilled.' The whole of the eighteenth chapter of Revelation is a warning of what is coming on the earth.” LS 411.

[Musicman1228]

Two things intrigue me about your latest post, jsm.

1. Chapter 7 shows 144,000 living Christians being sealed as a sign they have been Judged by Christ and found faithful. They are called “first fruits” indicating an additional “great multitude” will be saved.

Actually, Chapter 7 shows not just ANY Christians being sealed as a sign that they have been found 'faithful', they are sealed because they have been fount 'Blameless'. I believe that these 'blameless ones' will for the most part come out of the SDA church. Rev.14:5. Blameless means that there is no sin in them. I find the order of events in their sealing also intriguing; they become blameless AND THEN they are seal, not the other way around. The 144,000 are the first people on earth that actually KNOW the truth and DO the truth, this is why they are sealed. If it is just any Christians that are sealed then it becomes a lottery where the winners get to have righteousness installed in them without their having to actually LEARN and PRACTICE what is true.

2. jsm quoted EGW as saying, "And AT THE COMMENCEMENT OF THE TIME OF TROUBLE, we were FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST as we went forth and proclaimed the Sabbath more fully [first seal?]."

If this is indeed true then what about the Sabbath will we proclaim (among other truth) that we have not already been proclaiming for over 160 years? If what we believe about the Sabbath is true 'now' what would have to change 'then' for us to proclaim it more fully? And if it is good for us to proclaim it more fully 'then' then why not start that proclamation right now, why wait? I have my own idea but I want to hear from others first in order for there to be a valid comparison.

[jsm]

MM,

To "proclaim the Sabbath more fully" can easily mean to tell about it "more fully" in various ways around the world.

That is certainly being done now, and may signal that we are now living in the first seal perid. A major removal of peace from the earth [second seal] may tend to confirm this.

The next post will show that I also understand the 144,000 will be from the SDA Church.

[BobRyan]

thanks jsm-

I am taking notes and adding the information to my Rev 6 files.

I need to continue looking at this before I have anything to say - but it looks like there is a strong case for placing the Rev 6 seals in our future as well as the past.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Stan, not sure how much education you have so I will not discuss facts that you can't understand, sorry about that.

Ok I know I should have let this one go into the circular file along with the rest, but I have to ask ... just what "level" of education does not take NOT to see through your posts?

[jsm]

Bob Ryan and MM comment on the following:

Quote:

But before they begin to sound, an “angel” [Jesus the Archangel? Jude 9] is shown at the altar of incense in heaven, offering incense with the prayers of the saints.

The angel then fills a censer with coals of fire from the altar and throws them to the earth. This is symbolic of the Acts 3:19 sins being blotted out before the “refreshing” latter rain that will prepare God’s people to give the final warnings as the trumpets are blown.

BOB:

I think I have a few references for that throwing down of the censor being the sign that mediation has ended and fiery judgment is being cast down to the earth.

MM

The censer being cast down to earth happens just before the 1st Trumpet sounds. It marks the end of intercession for the Kingdom of Heaven (144,000 and Saints) as they no longer need it, being sealed in righteousness. At this time judgment moves to the outer court which is the kingdom of the world (42 months, Rev.11:1 and on)..

MY RESPONSE:

First from Revelation 8:5-6

And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Was EGW referring to this when she wrote about her vision:

I was pointed down to the time when the third angel's message was closing….

An angel with a writer's inkhorn by his side returned from the earth and reported to Jesus that his work was done, and THE SAINTS WERE NUMBERED AND SEALED. THEN I SAW JESUS...THROW DOWN THE CENSER. He raised His hands, and with a loud voice said, "It is done."….

Every case had been decided for life or death. While Jesus had been ministering in the sanctuary, the judgment had been going on for the righteous dead, and then for the righteous living. Christ had received His kingdom, having made the atonement for His people and blotted out their sins. The subjects of the kingdom were made up. The marriage of the Lamb was consummated. And the kingdom, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, was given to Jesus and the heirs of salvation, and Jesus was to reign as King of kings and Lord of lords.

EW 279-280.

Now note this, from The Bible Explained, by SDA Ted Wade:

The Greek text for [Revelation 8] verse 5, "And the angel took. . . ." has only the first "it." The text does NOT specify that BOTH censer and fire were cast down. Thus we may more easily see the FIRE cast to the earth WITHOUT the censer. This harmonizes with the scene in Ezekiel following the judgment of chapter 9.

That said, I believe the Revelation 8:5 SCENE does RELATE to the EGW vision when she “SAW JESUS...THROW DOWN THE CENSER” AT THE FINAL CLOSE OF PROBATION FOR ALL. Remember, however, that she is writing about HER OWN VISION.

But the Revelation 8:1-6 portion of a vision given to John applies DIRECTLY to what will take place at the EARLIER CLOSE OF PROBATION FOR THE CHURCH [’door is closed’], and sealing of the 144,000 of chapter 7.

Note the difference:

“The time of God's destructive judgments is the time of MERCY for those who have had no opportunity to learn what is truth. Tenderly will the Lord look upon them. His heart of mercy is touched; HIS HAND is STILL STRETCHED OUT TO SAVE, WHILE THE DOOR IS CLOSED to those who would not enter.” 9T 97.

Acts 3.19-20

Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus.

Note that Jesus, through His Spirit, will then come like the LATTER RAIN:

Hosea 6:1, 3

Come, and let us return to the Lord [‘be converted,’ as in Acts 3:19 above]...

He will come to us like the rain, like the latter and former rain to the earth.

“The ‘latter rain’ will be given...for the ripening of the harvest.” GC 611.

EGW applied Zechariah 3 and Ezekiel 9 to the sealing time for the 144,000. In Revelation 14:4 they are called FIRSTFRUITS. Surely a great HARVEST of possibly a great multitude will follow:

“Especially in THE CLOSING WORK FOR THE CHURCH, in THE SEALING TIME OF THE ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY-FOUR THOUSAND who are to stand WITHOUT FAULT before the throne of God, will they feel most deeply the wrongs of God's professed people. This is forcibly set forth by the prophet's illustration of the last work under the figure of the men each having a slaughter weapon in his hand [Ezekiel 9]. One man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side. "And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof."

“Mark this point with care: Those who receive THE PURE MARK OF TRUTH, wrought in them by the power of the Holy Ghost, represented by A MARK by the [Ezekiel 9] man in linen, are those "that sigh and cry for all the abominations that are done" IN THE CHURCH.” 3T 266-267.

Zechariah's vision of Joshua and the Angel [chapter 3] applies with peculiar force to the experience of God's people in the closing up of the great day of atonement. The remnant church will be brought into great trial and distress….

The assaults of Satan are strong, his delusions are terrible; but the Lord's eye is upon His people….

The people of God are sighing and crying for the abominations done in the land [Ezekiel 9]….

The faithful, praying ones are, as it were, shut in with God….

As the people of God afflict their souls before Him, pleading for purity of heart, the command is given, "TAKE AWAY THE FILTHY GARMENTS" from THEM, and the encouraging words are spoken, "Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment." THE SPOTLESS ROBE OF CHRIST’S RIGHTEOUSNESS is placed upon the tried, tempted, yet faithful children of God. The despised remnant are clothed in glorious apparel, NEVERMORE TO BE DEFILED by the corruptions of the world. Their names are retained in the Lamb's book of life, enrolled among the faithful of all ages. They have resisted the wiles of the deceiver; they have not been turned from their loyalty by the dragon's roar. Now THEY ARE ETERNALLY SECURE from the tempter's devices. THEIR SINS ARE TRANSFERRED TO THE ORIGINATOR OF SIN. And the remnant are not only pardoned and accepted, but honored. "A fair miter" is set upon their heads. They are to be as kings and priests unto God. While Satan was urging his accusations and seeking to destroy this company, holy angels, unseen, were passing to and fro, placing upon them THE SEAL of the living God. These are they that stand upon Mount Zion with the Lamb, having the Father's name written in their foreheads. They sing the new song before the throne, that song which no man can learn save THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, which were redeemed from the earth. "These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being THE FIRST FRUITS unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God." 5T 472-475.

Now notice what it says in Zechariah 3 AFTER the command is given, to "Take away the filthy garments" from them, and the encouraging words are spoken, "Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment." And as stated above: “THE SPOTLESS ROBE OF CHRIST’S RIGHTEOUSNESS is placed upon the tried, tempted, yet faithful children of God.”

“In that day,” says the Lord of hosts, “EVERYONE will INVITE HIS NEIGHBOR under his vine and under his fig tree.” Zechariah 3:10.

 

This EVERYONE INVITING HIS NEIGHBOR may reasonably be a symbol of the Loud Cry and warnings to be given by the 144,000.

Compare this to the response of Isaiah when his sins were purged by a coal from that golden altar.

Then the Lord asked, “Whom shall I send? Who will go for Us?”

To which Isaiah responded, “Here am I! Send me.” Isaiah 6:6-8.

“Clad in THE ARMOR OF CHRIST’S RIGHTEOUSNESS, the CHURCH [symbolized then by the 144,000. See above] is to enter upon her final conflict. "Fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners" (Song of Solomon 6:10), SHE IS TO GO FORTH INTO ALL THE WORLD, conquering and to conquer.” PK 725.

“The deeper the night for God's people, the more brilliant the stars. Satan will sorely harass the faithful; but, in the name of Jesus, they will come off more than conquerors. THEN will the church of Christ appear ‘fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners.’ The SEEDS of truth that are being sown by missionary efforts WILL THEN SPRING UP and blossom AND BEAR FRUIT. Souls will receive the truth who will endure tribulation and praise God that they may suffer for Jesus.” 5T 81-82.

“God rebukes His people for their sins, that He may humble them, and lead them to seek His face. As they reform, and His love reviews in their hearts, His loving answers will come to their requests. He will strengthen them in reformatory action, lifting up for them a standard against the enemy. His rich blessing will rest upon them, and in bright rays they will reflect the light of heaven. THEN A MULTITUDE NOT OF THEIR FAITH, seeing that God is with His people, WILL UNITE WITH THEM in serving the Redeemer.” EGW in RH 2/25/1902.

This will be a result of God working through His people during the seven trumpet periods.

[Dr. Rich]

Draw a line from the left to the right. To the left are lies and the line gets wider and longer as you go along. To the right, the line narrows to a point and this point becomes that absolute one truth.

Now place an "X" somewhere on this line at the point you feel you decided (made a real choice) that you wanted to know the truth and first accepted Jesus. Since you did not know the singular absolute truth at that time, the X will be somewhere between the left and the right.

At that point you did not know all of the truth. If you moved to the right after this time then you are called a truth seeker. If you were happy at this point, then you just remained at that point. If you moved to the left, then you started to lose sight of wanting to know the truth.

The 'education' that is important is NOT what you learn in school, but what you have learned while on the road to finding the absolute truth.

Problem is this, when you keep learning new truth, you keep moving to the right until you leave others behind you in the dust until they think you are some type of a nutcase. Therefore, the most comfortable place to be is somewhere in the middle where you have accepted enough truth to feel good about yourself, and enough lies to be accepted by those around you. The seventh message to the KOH in Rev. 3 is all about this problem.

Those who do NOT want to move to the right tend to do anything and say anything they can to 'justify' their safe and secure feeling of being lukewarm.

Here is the real problem: One who is still way left of the middle or even in the middle will not be able to understand the one who is far to the right unless they have an open mind and a willingness to search for real truth.

This is the education level that I was talking about.

[jsm]

Surrounded by the practices and influences of heathenism, the Colossian believers were in danger of being drawn away from the simplicity of the gospel, and Paul, in warning them against this, pointed them to Christ as the only safe guide. "I would that ye knew," he wrote, "what great conflict I have for you, and for them at LAODICEA, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh; that their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; in whom are hid ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

"And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. . . . As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk yet in Him: rooted and built up in Him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. BEWARE lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in Him dwelleth ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily. And YE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power." Colossians 2:1-10.

Christ had foretold that deceivers would arise, through whose influence "iniquity" should "abound," and "the love of many" should "wax cold." Matthew 24:12. He had warned the disciples that the church would be in more danger from this evil than from the persecution of her enemies. Again and again Paul warned the believers against these false teachers. THIS PERIL, ABOVE ALL OTHERS, they must guard against; for by receiving FALSE TEACHERS, they would open the door to errors by which the enemy would dim the spiritual perceptions and shake the confidence of those newly come to the faith of the gospel. Christ was the standard by which they were to TEST the doctrines presented. All that was not in harmony with His teachings they were to reject. Christ crucified for sin, Christ risen from the dead, Christ ascended on high—THIS WAS [AND IS] THE SCIENCE OF SALVATION THAT THEY WERE [AND WE ARE] TO LEARN AND TEACH. AA 473.

[Musicman1228]

Happy Sabbath, Everyone.

[Musicman1228]

Is a FALSE TEACHER someone that teaches against what is in the Bible as a whole or in the words and teachings of Jesus Christ in particular?

I ask this because Jesus gave information to John in Revelation (via an angel, not in person) that He said was relevant to those who live on the earth during the time of the end (Rev. 1:1-3). We have been given this information so we can KNOW where we are in time and in the progression of events that lead to the coming of Jesus in the clouds. There is still a good deal of disunity in the interpretation of these prophecies as illustrated by the disparate interpretations I see here on the forum. Have FALSE TEACHERS contributed to this disunity?

Will there ever come a time when we (as a denomination) will get our act together and become unified in the true understanding of these prophecies?

[BobRyan]

Is a FALSE TEACHER someone that teaches against what is in the Bible as a whole or in the words and teachings of Jesus Christ in particular?

When JESUS said that the "scriptures cannot be broken" he was not talking about "vaporware" he was talking about "IT IS WRITTEN".

Thus in Matt 4 Jesus does not "quote Himself" he "quotes the text of scripture" saying "IT IS WRITTEN".

The one who contradicts Christ's model and destroys scripture instead of upholding it is "not walking as Christ walked" and 1John 2 tells us that such a person is in fact lying.

This situation is not as mysterious as one or two people here have imagined.

in Christ,

Bob

[Guest]

Amen Bob!

[jsm]

The HARVEST parable indicates a time is coming when God's people will be on the same page in understanding.

This is a lengthy subject, and should be in a separate thread. But I will make only a couple comments here, and add a few Bible texts. Then I will respond further only in a new thread.

We get our directions from the Bible as we look to Jesus and ask the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth.

People come from all backgrounds; so that mystical and theoretic line drawn in the sand is a poor illustration.

A better illustration is a wheel, with the spokes representing people and the center representing Christ.

No matter what direction we come from in our spiritual understanding, we will draw closer together as we draw closer to Him.

2 Corinthians 3.18

But we ALL, with open face [when we 'turn to the Lord' v. 16] beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

==============

Psalm 19:7

The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Isaiah 8:20

To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Psalm 119:160

The ENTIRETY of Your word is truth, and every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.

John 16:13

However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

1 John 4:1-3

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that[a] Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God.

James 1:5-8

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

James 3:13-18

Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

John 17:17

Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

ALL the prophets spoke by “the word of the Lord.” That phrase is used 247 times in the OT.

2 Peter 1:21

for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

[Dr. Rich]

"Christ was the standard by which they were to TEST the doctrines presented. All that was not in harmony with His teachings they were to reject. Christ crucified for sin, Christ risen from the dead, Christ ascended on high—THIS WAS [AND IS] THE SCIENCE OF SALVATION THAT THEY WERE [AND WE ARE] TO LEARN AND TEACH. AA 473."

For the most part what EGW wrote here is correct but a good counterfeit must look good or it would never deceive anyone. Therefore, this IS just a counterfeit for she left out key words that would make it correct.

If she had added "words" after the first word here (Christ), then the test would be correct. (John 14:26)

Trouble is, she herself didn't understand this test because the first thing written was "Christ crucified for sin" was NOT 100 percent correct. Yes Christ was crucified, but it was for the PENALTY for sin for those who repent and become servants for Christ and obey what He said. Christ did NOT die to do away with sin, for if He had, then there would not be any sin today.

[BobRyan]

"Christ was the standard by which they were to TEST the doctrines presented. All that was not in harmony with His teachings they were to reject. Christ crucified for sin, Christ risen from the dead, Christ ascended on high—THIS WAS [AND IS] THE SCIENCE OF SALVATION THAT THEY WERE [AND WE ARE] TO LEARN AND TEACH. AA 473."

For the most part what EGW wrote here is correct but a good counterfeit must look good or it would never deceive anyone. Therefore, this IS just a counterfeit for she left out key words that would make it correct.

We need a thread titled "fiction" so Rich can "own it".