Gay Billboard

[LifeHiscost]

Punishing the wicked for their deeds is not forcing them to do anything. It is simply holding them accountable for the decisions they made of their own free will.

Not to be argumentative, Shane, but I would like to suggest the choice to reject Jesus is is made while enslaved by the enemy of souls, which enslavement results from a free choice not to submit freely to Jesus Christ.

God blesses!

[Dr. Shane]

Agreed. We are either slaves to sin or to righteousness. That is a choice we make and not one that is made for us.

[LifeHiscost]

"God sees and describes Himself as doing what He does not prevent."

Yep! Yep! Yep! The only way God could be held as sovereign at all times is by holding Himself accountable for all actions of His creation. A characteristic of His that really helps define whether a person is a follower of Him/His.

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever."Hebrews 13:8 NKJV

God blesses!

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

What this reveals is that women and children really had no value in the Old Testament.

While we know that culturally, women and children were not valued like men were, I can't agree that is what the story is teaching. Remember in Numbers where God told them to kill all except the virgins. Now why would that be?

...I can only conclude that God saw that some of the young girls could be reached by His grace while the rest of the population was a lost cause.

You really think they were saving the virgins to share god's grace with them? LOL

Well I think men would find evangelism a lot more appealing if that was the method. LOL

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Sonny

"God destroys no man. Everyone who is destroyed will have destroyed himself. Everyone who stifles the admonitions of conscience is sowing the seeds of unbelief, and these will produce a sure harvest." [Ellen White]

Take that in context. It is like saying guns don't kill people, people kill people. Well, guns are the tool people use. So... guns do kill people, don't they?

I would suggest these two scriptures as defining the "Who destroys".

" Then He(Jesus) said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come!"Luke 17:2 NKJV

Indirectly, all those who yield to sin are the guilty parties of destruction. Our hope lies alone in the Savior.

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."John 10:10 KJV

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."Romans 8:28 KJV

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Agreed. We are either slaves to sin or to righteousness. That is a choice we make and not one that is made for us.

While there are some who choose to destroy themselves purposefully, I would suggest, if not all, most people do what they think will benefit themselves, if not immediately at least in the long run. Even the martyrs, when giving up their lives for the faith, look forward to the resurrection. Only Jesus gave up His life believing He was trading His eternity that we might be saved. Awesome above awesome.

Our slavery to sin is, IMO, based on the seduction of unbelief, that we will be better off by not yielding to the Holy Spirit's

promptings and replacing that call for a moment's pleasure, or even a life here without denial.

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."Matthew 16:24 KJV

In looking up this above Scripture, I found that not one ever said "must deny", all said "let...deny", indicating not only the ease of which it is found to follow Jesus, but it amplifies the reality that God holds Himself responsible for every good thought, intention, or deed that we accomplish. Making the reality of the Scriptures below, even more significant.

"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."Matthew 11:28 NKJV

"[Not in your own strength] "...for it is God Who is all the while effectually at work in you [energizing and creating in you the power and desire], both to will and to work for His good pleasure and satisfaction and delight."

Philippians 2:13 AMP brackets theirs LHC

God blesses!

[doug yowell]

."

What this reveals is that women and children really had no value in the Old Testament. We can see the same thing with the story of Job. When his children are killed it suddenly becomes alright because Job gets a new family.

The focus is self centered on the male writers of the Bible.

Glad you cleared that up for us, Rich.

[cardw]

Glad you cleared that up for us, Rich.

You're welcome.

[Sonny]

You would think god would have better aim when he rained down fire.

God wasn't aiming....He was no where to be found.

[Sonny]

God does not force them to do anything.

He forces them to die because they didn't accept Him. That's not free will.

[Sonny]

Lucifer judged God and that is what got him kicked out of heaven. It is no light matter to judge God.

Satan’s rebellion against God in heaven was, in reality, a rebellion against God’s agape love, which was the principle underlying the law [see Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:10; Galatians 5:13, 14]. Lucifer found the idea that love (agape) “is not self-seeking” [1 Conthians 13:5] too restrictive. He rebelled and introduced the principle of self-love [see Ezekiel 28:15; Isaiah 14:12-14]. Ever since his fall, Satan has hated the concept of self-sacrificing love.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

You would think god would have better aim when he rained down fire.

God wasn't aiming....He was no where to be found.

I can agree with that.

[Sonny]

I can agree with that.

That doesn't mean that there isn't a God. It means that He was rejected and therefore removed Himself from their company.

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Shane

God does not force them to do anything.

He forces them to die because they didn't accept Him. That's not free will.

Annihilating the wicked is how God will bring an end to sin. That is an act of love. The only other option is to put the wicked in heaven. Being unrepentant sinners, they would never be happy in heaven. To them, heaven would be torture. God destroys them because He loves them. God is love.

[skyblue888]

God destroys them. God is love.

God destroys the same way He hardens the heart or sends evil spirits or strong delusions to those who do not have the love of the truth. He sends light to us and if that light is resisted there is a hardening that takes place and the second revealing is less clearly discerned until it is night in the soul. When that happens He is forced to withraw His protection and there is no power left to control the evil passions of the soul and no protection from the enmity of Satan.

sky

[Sonny]

Annihilating the wicked is how God will bring an end to sin. That is an act of love.

[Sonny]

When that happens He is forced to withraw His protection and there is no power left to control the evil passions of the soul and no protection from the enmity of Satan.

sky

And, I might add, the earth falling apart....

[Dr. Shane]

And I saw, and behold, a white cloud; and on the cloud I saw one sitting like unto a son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the temple, crying with a great voice to him that sat on the cloud, Send forth thy sickle, and reap: for the hour to reap is come; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud cast his sickle upon the earth; and the earth was reaped. Another angel came out from the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, he that hath power over fire; and he called with a great voice to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Send forth thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. And the angel cast his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vintage of the earth, and cast it into the winepress, the great winepress, of the wrath of God. And the winepress are trodden without the city, and there came out blood from the winepress, even unto the bridles of the horses, as far as a thousand and six hundred furlongs. (Revelation 14:14-20)

[Dr. Shane]

They destroy themselves because they have persistently and ultimately rejected God.

[Sonny]

Shane,

Do you remember how King Saul rejected God and went and consulted with a medium? The Bible clearly states that he rejected the God of Israel. Now here's what the Bible says concerning his death:

So Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he had committed against the Lord, because he did not keep the word of the Lord, and also because he consulted a medium for guidance, but he did not inquire of the Lord; therefore, He [God] killed him, and turned the kingdom over to David, the son of Jesse (1 Chron. 10:13,14).

God said He killed Saul because he got out of line. Do you think that was love when God killed Saul?

[Sonny]

The wicked love sinning. In heaven there will be no sin.

What is sin? Notice the question is in the singular.

Is 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! 13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. 14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."

The essence of Lucifer’s sin was self-exaltation, what the Bible defines as iniquity, which in Hebrew means bent to self [isaiah 53:6]. Hence, the love of self is the underlying principle of all sin, in complete opposition to the principle of God’s government which is founded upon selfless love or agape [see 1 John 4:7, 8, 16]. Sin therefore may be rightly interpreted as rebellion against God or His agape. According to 1 Corinthians 13:5, there is no love of self in agape.

[Sonny]

the wrath of God. (Revelation 14:14-20)

Revelation is highly symbolic.

As to the wrath of God, I've already linked this to God's removal of Himself. It's passive:

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. ....24 Therefore God gave them up....

The wrath of God is God giving them up.

[cardw]

I'm wondering what straight man would be caught dead in that outfit and sitting on that My Little Pony horse.

[Dr. Shane]

Do you think that was love when God killed Saul?

Yes. God is love. I grasp that.

[Amelia]

@Rich

First, that is a beautiful Arabian.

Second, I agree that is not how I would picture Jesus but painting just like other things, is subjective.

Persoanlly I would like to see Jesus wearing black leather, riding a harley, with his sword strapped to his back.