Gay Billboard

[Dr. Shane]

I can't find where Jesus killed anyone. As to Ananias & Sapphira, it doesn't state that God killed them. You are reading into that one.

[Igakusei]

That's a half-truth.

The reality is that you and I are both going to die. For both of us as individuals, it's almost certainly going to be the end. The difference is that I know this now, and you're never going to find out. You're going to die thinking that the next thing you see will be the second coming. You'll never realize that you were wrong, because you'll be dead.

Now don't get me wrong, part of me wishes you were right. I wish that there was a supremely loving God that had prepared a better life for us and we could go on learning and exploring for a long, long time. Unfortunately there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that it is true, and a whole lot of evidence that suggests it isn't. Whether or not we believe something has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not it is actually true.

I actually care about whether or not my beliefs are true, as my beliefs inform my actions and I don't want my actions to be based on myth and superstition.

[Bravus]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

because he enjoys a discussion.

That would assume you can read his motive.

You guessed, I guessed. He's quite capable of speaking for himself, but shouldn't even need to. No-one needs to justify his/her right to post here.

[Sonny]

OK. Do tell. If God didn't kill them, how did Peter know that Sapphira was going to die before she did?

[Sonny]

No-one needs to justify his/her right to post here.

Didn't say he did, but still it's not good to tempt believers to give up Christ....Now is it?

[Dr. Shane]

You're going to die thinking that the next thing you see will be the second coming... Unfortunately there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that it is true...

I actually care about whether or not my beliefs are true...

The Bible is itself evidence. Now you may choose to reject it but to say there is no evidence is to ignore the elephant in the room.

If what I believe is wrong, what do I have to lose? I live a moral life, loving others and serving the good of humanity. I am at peace with myself and those around me. I am happy and content. Then I die. There is no afterlife so that is the end. What have I lost due to believing in the Bible?

However if you are wrong, what do you have to lose? Eternal life.

[John317]

Rev is highly symbolic. I need to stay with the plain NT. Too many people make Rev say anything they want. Not accusing you of this, BTW.

Yet it is still a very important part of the Bible and teaches that when Christ returns, most people will be destroyed.

It agrees with all the rest of the Bible in this.

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Shane

OK. Do tell. If God didn't kill them, how did Peter know that Sapphira was going to die before she did?

I don't know...it would be speculation.

[John317]

...I actually care about whether or not my beliefs are true, as my beliefs inform my actions and I don't want my actions to be based on myth and superstition.

I think everyone here agrees with that. The diference is that you believe the Bible and Christianity are based on myth and supersition and almost no one else on the Adventist Forum does.

So that would be like our accusing you of not caring about whether or not your beliefs are true. But neither of us can know this, so it's best not to assume or imply it.

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

because he enjoys a discussion.

That would assume you can read his motive.

I can't read the motives of others but I for one would find no joy, peace or anything positive from going into a Catholic, Mormon, Hindu or Muslim forum and arguing with them about what they believe.

[John317]

I can't read the motives of others but I for one would find no joy, peace or anything positive from going into a Catholic, Mormon, Hindu or Muslim forum and arguing with them about what they believe.

I totally agree. I have gone into JWs and Mormon forums but it was to learn from them about their beliefs, not debate or try to persuade them that they are wrong.

[Igakusei]

The Bible is itself evidence. Now you may choose to reject it but to say there is no evidence is to ignore the elephant in the room.

If what I believe is wrong, what do I have to lose? I live a moral life, loving others and serving the good of humanity. I am at peace with myself and those around me. I am happy and content. Then I die. There is no afterlife so that is the end. What have I lost due to believing in the Bible?

However if you are wrong, what do you have to lose? Eternal life.

I'm actually glad you brought this up. It's a very old argument, well known to philosophers.

First, let me say that there is no elephant in the room. I find much more evidence in the Bible that it is NOT the word of God than evidence that it is. I challenge anyone to find a single passage in the entire Bible that couldn't have been written by uninspired people living in the first century.

Second, I strongly disagree with the notion that I lose nothing by believing in a God that doesn't exist. Christianity as with all of the major monotheistic religions preys on fear. I live in fear of my own thoughts, believing that I'm a horrible person born into a crippled body that can only be saved by making my very personality a slave to an idea. I'm terrified of doubt, and I live with blinders on for fear of being "confused" by Satan's ideas. I miss out on so much beauty, knowledge, and other aspects of the potential human experience because I've elected to live in a little box that other people built for me.

As I said earlier, belief informs actions. My mother is so convinced that Jesus is going to return to Earth within the next few years (she's been this way my entire life) that she has purchased a house quite literally in the middle of nowhere, and lives almost completely off the grid. Wood stove, huge garden, the works. It won't be long before she and her husband are too old to cut wood and stock their wooden stove eight times a day, and with no income and no savings (why save for retirement when Jesus is coming back so soon?) It's going to fall on my sister and I to support her. I don't necessarily mind because she's my mother and I love her dearly, but I don't want to do that to MY children. Her fear, and her inability to think beyond the confines of the box that her parents built for her destroyed her first marriage, and has trapped her in a loveless second one thousands of miles from her children with no retirement.

I see things this way: The chances of me even existing are astronomically small, whether you believe in creation or not. I've woken up in a universe surrounded by knowledge and wonder. I was fortunate enough to be born into an era where education is readily available, in a healthy body, with modern medicine advanced enough that I am likely to live a long and productive life. There are so many things to learn, and explore, and marvel at, and discover. Why should I spend the time I have here in bondage to someone else's idea and living in fear of my own thoughts? There are literally dozens if not hundreds of entire fields of research that most Adventists don't even know exist because they conflict with the dogma put forward by people generations past who didn't have our opportunities for education.

The claim that if I'm wrong I lose everything is also pretty tenuous, considering that as I've mentioned before there is a vast array of different religious groups that believe they are the ones who have the truth. To assume that it's either the Adventist God or no god is a false dichotomy. What if the Sunnis are right, and Allah is going to punish Adventists in hell for rejecting his instructions? There are many Gods to choose from, and many of them are mutually exclusive.

[John317]

I challenge anyone to find a single passage in the entire Bible that couldn't have been written by uninspired people living in the first century.

It sounds to me that you haven't studied the prophecies very thoroughly, although I am sure you think you have.

Are you an atheist or agnostic?

Do you believe that Jesus of Nazareth existed?

Do you believe that the entire NT is a bunch of lies? How and why was it written?

What do you have to put in its place?

[John317]

The Bible is itself evidence. Now you may choose to reject it but to say there is no evidence is to ignore the elephant in the room.

If what I believe is wrong, what do I have to lose? I live a moral life, loving others and serving the good of humanity. I am at peace with myself and those around me. I am happy and content. Then I die. There is no afterlife so that is the end. What have I lost due to believing in the Bible?

However if you are wrong, what do you have to lose? Eternal life.

Originally Posted By: Igakusei

I'm actually glad you brought this up. It's a very old argument, well known to philosophers.

What philosophers and what did they say? Please discuss it in some detail.

[John317]

...there is a vast array of different religious groups that believe they are the ones who have the truth. To assume that it's either the Adventist God or no god is a false dichotomy. What if the Sunnis are right, and Allah is going to punish Adventists in hell for rejecting his instructions? There are many Gods to choose from, and many of them are mutually exclusive.

How seriously have you studied these various world religions? Have you studied their holy books?

If so, which ones?

The truth is that most of the religions of the world do not believe they are the ones who have the truth. Most believe that there are many roads that lead to "salvation."

Even the Qur'an does not teach that only those who accept the Koran will be "saved." It teaches that Christians and Jews will be saved if they follow the teachings of the Bible.

Muslims believe that Allah is the same God as inspired the Bible. I don't believe that is true. (The reasons for this have been given in a number of posts found on the discussion, "SDAs Should worship Allah.") The Bible clearly teaches that Christ is the only way to God and to salvation. The Qur'an, however, does not teach this.

Please name the world religions that believe they are the only ones that have the truth and that people who reject their beliefs will be "lost."

Quote the Sunnis showing that they believe Allah is going to punish Seventh-day Adventists for rejecting his instructions in the Qur'an.

[Sonny]

If there is no other explanation, than it is not speculation. It is a logical conclusion.

No, Shane, it's logical to you because you believe in a God who compels and then kills those who reject Him. To accept a God as such is the wrong motive. Your motive would be based in fear and therefore the fruit of such a relationship couldn't be genuine.

As to the context of Acts 5, let's look at it in detail since you seem to have all the answer:

Let's back up to Acts 4:32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34 There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need

5:1 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet. 3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6 Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him. 7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?" "Yes," she said, "that is the price." 9 Peter said to her, "How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also." 10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

What's the issue here? The church, unlike churches today, were fully experiencing agape in the life of the believers. I get this because it says, "not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property."

Keep in mind "agape" is not self-seeking. There was no this is my home...this is my money...there was no selfishness and the result their was no poverty.

The reason we have poverty is because we have a system based on Lucifer's love of self. This type of love is always trying to ascend, whether it be socially, politically, academically, materially, economically, or even religiously! This wasn't the case in the church of Acts.

What Ananias and Sapphira did was to reintroduce the love of self in a community of believers experiencing agape. It was equivalent to Lucifer's introduction of the love of self in heaven.

In heaven God abandoned Lucifer to this world. How has this world be doing with Lucifer and his love of self at the wheel?

The same happened to Ananias and Sapphira. God abandoned them - He withdrew Himself from them and when God retreated they died. How - it doesn't say. Maybe both of them had serious health problems and God was keeping them alive and when He abandoned them they died. We can speculate about that all day.

[Sonny]

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

When you look around and think there is no God, what does the Bible say? Verse 22 "Professing to be wise, they became fools"

Why would we want to listen to anybody teaching there's no God? [it is just] plain stupid [to] look at life on this planet and think there's no God. To believe that all this just evolved from nothing fits verse 22 nicely. It is a fool who states there's no God.

[John317]

I challenge anyone to find a single passage in the entire Bible that couldn't have been written by uninspired people living in the first century.

I'll accept your challenge. Try these. Let's discuss them in depth.

Please show valid evidence where anything like these prophecies could have been or were written outside of the Bible, by uninspired people living in the first century:

1) Obadiah 18

2) Ezekiel 26: 3-5

3) Daniel 2

4) Daniel 9: 24-27

5) Mat. 26: 13

6) Jeremiah 50: 39, 40; 51: 37.

7) Daniel 7 & 8.

8) Micah 5: 2

[John317]

Why would we want to listen to anybody teaching there's no God? [it is just] plain stupid [to] look at life on this planet and think there's no God. To believe that all this just evolved from nothing fits verse 22 nicely. It is a fool who states there's no God.

I agree completely.

Is there any other planet in the universe where the conditions are perfect for life and where humans can find everything that meets our needs, such as all the natural resources that exist here? Is this just by coincidence?

Not only that but is it by sheer coincidence that there is a book, called the Bible, which outlines the history of the human race and which perfectly describes the human condition and contains the solution to all of our problems and answers human longings?

[John317]

... Christianity as with all of the major monotheistic religions preys on fear. I live in fear of my own thoughts, believing that I'm a horrible person born into a crippled body that can only be saved by making my very personality a slave to an idea. I'm terrified of doubt, and I live with blinders on for fear of being "confused" by Satan's ideas. I miss out on so much beauty, knowledge, and other aspects of the potential human experience because I've elected to live in a little box that other people built for me.

I believe you have a warped view of Christianity in general and of Seventh-day Adventist beliefs in particular. What you describe here is not because of belief in the Bible.

My experience is just the opposite of what you say here. I missed out on so much beauty before I gave my life over to Christ. I certainly don't live in a little box. I am freer now than I ever was before. If what you describe was the reality of my Christian life, I would throw it off too. But mine is apparently just the opposite of yours.

[Gerr]

I challenge anyone to find a single passage in the entire Bible that couldn't have been written by uninspired people living in the first century.

In the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar, Nebuchadnezzar had dreams; his spirit was troubled, and his sleep left him. 2 Then the king commanded that the magicians, the enchanters, the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans be summoned to tell the king his dreams. So they came in and stood before the king. 3 And the king said to them, “I had a dream, and my spirit is troubled to know the dream.” 4 Then the Chaldeans said to the king in Aramaic, “O king, live forever! Tell your servants the dream, and we will show the interpretation.” 5 The king answered and said to the Chaldeans, “The word from me is firm: if you do not make known to me the dream and its interpretation, you shall be torn limb from limb, and your houses shall be laid in ruins. 6 But if you show the dream and its interpretation, you shall receive from me gifts and rewards and great honor. Therefore show me the dream and its interpretation.” 7 They answered a second time and said, “Let the king tell his servants the dream, and we will show its interpretation.” 8 The king answered and said, “I know with certainty that you are trying to gain time, because you see that the word from me is firm— 9 if you do not make the dream known to me, there is but one sentence for you. You have agreed to speak lying and corrupt words before me till the times change. Therefore tell me the dream, and I shall know that you can show me its interpretation.” 10 The Chaldeans answered the king and said, “There is not a man on earth who can meet the king’s demand, for no great and powerful king has asked such a thing of any magician or enchanter or Chaldean. 11 The thing that the king asks is difficult, and no one can show it to the king except the gods, whose dwelling is not with flesh.”

12 Because of this the king was angry and very furious, and commanded that all the wise men of Babylon be destroyed. 13 So the decree went out, and the wise men were about to be killed; and they sought Daniel and his companions, to kill them. 14 Then Daniel replied with prudence and discretion to Arioch, the captain of the king’s guard, who had gone out to kill the wise men of Babylon. 15 He declared to Arioch, the king’s captain, “Why is the decree of the king so urgent?” Then Arioch made the matter known to Daniel. 16 And Daniel went in and requested the king to appoint him a time, that he might show the interpretation to the king.

17 Then Daniel went to his house and made the matter known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions, 18 and told them to seek mercy from the God of heaven concerning this mystery, so that Daniel and his companions might not be destroyed with the rest of the wise men of Babylon. 19 Then the mystery was revealed to Daniel in a vision of the night. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven. 20 Daniel answered and said:

“Blessed be the name of God forever and ever,

to whom belong wisdom and might.

21 He changes times and seasons;

he removes kings and sets up kings;

he gives wisdom to the wise

and knowledge to those who have understanding;

22 he reveals deep and hidden things;

he knows what is in the darkness,

and the light dwells with him.

23 To you, O God of my fathers,

I give thanks and praise,

for you have given me wisdom and might,

and have now made known to me what we asked of you,

for you have made known to us the king’s matter.”

24 Therefore Daniel went in to Arioch, whom the king had appointed to destroy the wise men of Babylon. He went and said thus to him: “Do not destroy the wise men of Babylon; bring me in before the king, and I will show the king the interpretation.”

25 Then Arioch brought in Daniel before the king in haste and said thus to him: “I have found among the exiles from Judah a man who will make known to the king the interpretation.” 26 The king declared to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, “Are you able to make known to me the dream that I have seen and its interpretation?” 27 Daniel answered the king and said, “No wise men, enchanters, magicians, or astrologers can show to the king the mystery that the king has asked, 28 but there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and he has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will be in the latter days. Your dream and the visions of your head as you lay in bed are these: 29 To you, O king, as you lay in bed came thoughts of what would be after this, and he who reveals mysteries made known to you what is to be. 30 But as for me, this mystery has been revealed to me, not because of any wisdom that I have more than all the living, but in order that the interpretation may be made known to the king, and that you may know the thoughts of your mind.

31 “You saw, O king, and behold, a great image. This image, mighty and of exceeding brightness, stood before you, and its appearance was frightening. 32 The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, 33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. 34 As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

36 “This was the dream. Now we will tell the king its interpretation. 37 You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory, 38 and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the children of man, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens, making you rule over them all—you are the head of gold. 39 Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40 And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things. And like iron that crushes, it shall break and crush all these. 41 And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, 45 just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.”

46 Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face and paid homage to Daniel, and commanded that an offering and incense be offered up to him. 47 The king answered and said to Daniel, “Truly, your God is God of gods and Lord of kings, and a revealer of mysteries, for you have been able to reveal this mystery.” 48 Then the king gave Daniel high honors and many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon and chief prefect over all the wise men of Babylon. 49 Daniel made a request of the king, and he appointed Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego over the affairs of the province of Babylon. But Daniel remained at the king’s court.

The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Da 2:1–49). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

Except that this was written in the 6th century BC.

[Igakusei]

Originally Posted By: Igakusei

I challenge anyone to find a single passage in the entire Bible that couldn't have been written by uninspired people living in the first century.

In the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar, Nebuchadnezzar had dreams; his spirit was troubled, and his sleep left him. 2 Then the king commanded that the magicians, the enchanters, the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans be summoned to tell the king his dreams. So they came in and stood before the king. 3 And the king said to them, “I had a dream, and my spirit is troubled to know the dream.” 4 Then the Chaldeans said to the king in Aramaic, “O king, live forever! Tell your servants the dream, and we will show the interpretation.” 5 The king answered and said to the Chaldeans, “The word from me is firm: if you do not make known to me the dream and its interpretation, you shall be torn limb from limb, and your houses shall be laid in ruins. 6 But if you show the dream and its interpretation, you shall receive from me gifts and rewards and great honor. Therefore show me the dream and its interpretation.” 7 They answered a second time and said, “Let the king tell his servants the dream, and we will show its interpretation.” 8 The king answered and said, “I know with certainty that you are trying to gain time, because you see that the word from me is firm— 9 if you do not make the dream known to me, there is but one sentence for you. You have agreed to speak lying and corrupt words before me till the times change. Therefore tell me the dream, and I shall know that you can show me its interpretation.” 10 The Chaldeans answered the king and said, “There is not a man on earth who can meet the king’s demand, for no great and powerful king has asked such a thing of any magician or enchanter or Chaldean. 11 The thing that the king asks is difficult, and no one can show it to the king except the gods, whose dwelling is not with flesh.”

12 Because of this the king was angry and very furious, and commanded that all the wise men of Babylon be destroyed. 13 So the decree went out, and the wise men were about to be killed; and they sought Daniel and his companions, to kill them. 14 Then Daniel replied with prudence and discretion to Arioch, the captain of the king’s guard, who had gone out to kill the wise men of Babylon. 15 He declared to Arioch, the king’s captain, “Why is the decree of the king so urgent?” Then Arioch made the matter known to Daniel. 16 And Daniel went in and requested the king to appoint him a time, that he might show the interpretation to the king.

17 Then Daniel went to his house and made the matter known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions, 18 and told them to seek mercy from the God of heaven concerning this mystery, so that Daniel and his companions might not be destroyed with the rest of the wise men of Babylon. 19 Then the mystery was revealed to Daniel in a vision of the night. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven. 20 Daniel answered and said:

“Blessed be the name of God forever and ever,

to whom belong wisdom and might.

21 He changes times and seasons;

he removes kings and sets up kings;

he gives wisdom to the wise

and knowledge to those who have understanding;

22 he reveals deep and hidden things;

he knows what is in the darkness,

and the light dwells with him.

23 To you, O God of my fathers,

I give thanks and praise,

for you have given me wisdom and might,

and have now made known to me what we asked of you,

for you have made known to us the king’s matter.”

24 Therefore Daniel went in to Arioch, whom the king had appointed to destroy the wise men of Babylon. He went and said thus to him: “Do not destroy the wise men of Babylon; bring me in before the king, and I will show the king the interpretation.”

25 Then Arioch brought in Daniel before the king in haste and said thus to him: “I have found among the exiles from Judah a man who will make known to the king the interpretation.” 26 The king declared to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, “Are you able to make known to me the dream that I have seen and its interpretation?” 27 Daniel answered the king and said, “No wise men, enchanters, magicians, or astrologers can show to the king the mystery that the king has asked, 28 but there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and he has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will be in the latter days. Your dream and the visions of your head as you lay in bed are these: 29 To you, O king, as you lay in bed came thoughts of what would be after this, and he who reveals mysteries made known to you what is to be. 30 But as for me, this mystery has been revealed to me, not because of any wisdom that I have more than all the living, but in order that the interpretation may be made known to the king, and that you may know the thoughts of your mind.

31 “You saw, O king, and behold, a great image. This image, mighty and of exceeding brightness, stood before you, and its appearance was frightening. 32 The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, 33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. 34 As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

36 “This was the dream. Now we will tell the king its interpretation. 37 You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory, 38 and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the children of man, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens, making you rule over them all—you are the head of gold. 39 Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40 And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things. And like iron that crushes, it shall break and crush all these. 41 And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, 45 just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.”

46 Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face and paid homage to Daniel, and commanded that an offering and incense be offered up to him. 47 The king answered and said to Daniel, “Truly, your God is God of gods and Lord of kings, and a revealer of mysteries, for you have been able to reveal this mystery.” 48 Then the king gave Daniel high honors and many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon and chief prefect over all the wise men of Babylon. 49 Daniel made a request of the king, and he appointed Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego over the affairs of the province of Babylon. But Daniel remained at the king’s court.

The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Da 2:1–49). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

Except that this was written in the 6th century BC.

It's going to take me awhile to reply to John's list, but Daniel is easy. Please demonstrate why you think it was written in the 6th century BC.

[Dr. Shane]

I challenge anyone to find a single passage in the entire Bible that couldn't have been written by uninspired people living in the first century.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Igakusei

I challenge anyone to find a single passage in the entire Bible that couldn't have been written by uninspired people living in the first century.

What uninspired man can write in the 6th century BC what took place almost 300 years later?

In the eleventh year, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me: 2 “Son of man, because Tyre said concerning Jerusalem, ‘Aha, the gate of the peoples is broken; it has swung open to me. I shall be replenished, now that she is laid waste,’ 3 therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against you, O Tyre, and will bring up many nations against you, as the sea brings up its waves. 4 They shall destroy the walls of Tyre and break down her towers, and I will scrape her soil from her and make her a bare rock. 5 She shall be in the midst of the sea a place for the spreading of nets, for I have spoken, declares the Lord GOD. And she shall become plunder for the nations, 6 and her daughters on the mainland shall be killed by the sword. Then they will know that I am the LORD.

7 “For thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will bring against Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, and with horsemen and a host of many soldiers. 8 He will kill with the sword your daughters on the mainland. He will set up a siege wall against you and throw up a mound against you, and raise a roof of shields against you. 9 He will direct the shock of his battering rams against your walls, and with his axes he will break down your towers. 10 His horses will be so many that their dust will cover you. Your walls will shake at the noise of the horsemen and wagons and chariots, when he enters your gates as men enter a city that has been breached. 11 With the hoofs of his horses he will trample all your streets. He will kill your people with the sword, and your mighty pillars will fall to the ground. 12 They will plunder your riches and loot your merchandise. They will break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses. Your stones and timber and soil they will cast into the midst of the waters. 13 And I will stop the music of your songs, and the sound of your lyres shall be heard no more. 14 I will make you a bare rock. You shall be a place for the spreading of nets. You shall never be rebuilt, for I am the LORD; I have spoken, declares the Lord GOD.

15 “Thus says the Lord GOD to Tyre: Will not the coastlands shake at the sound of your fall, when the wounded groan, when slaughter is made in your midst? 16 Then all the princes of the sea will step down from their thrones and remove their robes and strip off their embroidered garments. They will clothe themselves with trembling; they will sit on the ground and tremble every moment and be appalled at you. 17 And they will raise a lamentation over you and say to you,

“ ‘How you have perished,

you who were inhabited from the seas,

O city renowned,

who was mighty on the sea;

she and her inhabitants imposed their terror

on all her inhabitants!

18 Now the coastlands tremble

on the day of your fall,

and the coastlands that are on the sea

are dismayed at your passing.’

19 “For thus says the Lord GOD: When I make you a city laid waste, like the cities that are not inhabited, when I bring up the deep over you, and the great waters cover you, 20 then I will make you go down with those who go down to the pit, to the people of old, and I will make you to dwell in the world below, among ruins from of old, with those who go down to the pit, so that you will not be inhabited; but I will set beauty in the land of the living. 21 I will bring you to a dreadful end, and you shall be no more. Though you be sought for, you will never be found again, declares the Lord GOD.”

The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Eze 26:1–21). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

"it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" Acts 9:5

[Gerr]

Igakusei: It's going to take me awhile to reply to John's list, but Daniel is easy. Please demonstrate why you think it was written in the 6th century BC.

Show me why you think it was written in the first century BC.