Gay Billboard

[Sonny]

The Bible can't be understood by the degenerate mind. Only through God's Spirit can we understand what seems to be a book full of contradictions. Even if one is spiritually mind doesn't mean he/she can give an answer to every point in the Bible. Somethings will have to wait....

[Sonny]

God's purpose was to rid the area of idolatry.

Well, this goes to show you that Christians can't agree on this....Maybe this is one of those things that will have to wait until eternity opens up.

Why would God wipe out people who worshiped other gods? It doesn't fit God's character because the Bible plainly states that "God is agape". Agape loves its enemies...it doesn't force - it doesn't coerce. Compulsion and force comes from Satan.

[Igakusei]

Originally Posted By: Igakusei

let's remove HIV from the picture for a moment. In a stable homosexual relationship between two members of the same sex, neither of which have an STD, who is getting hurt?

I think you are referring to a monogamous gay relationship. That is somewhat of a rare thing.

Comparing the Lifestyles of Homosexual Couples to Married Couples

Quote:

Are homosexual households, as the article suggests, simply another variant of human relationships that should be considered, along with marriage, as "part of mainstream American society"?

On the contrary, the evidence indicates that "committed" homosexual relationships are radically different from married couples in several key respects:

· relationship duration

· monogamy vs. promiscuity

· relationship commitment

· number of children being raised

· health risks

· rates of intimate partner violence

Finally, this paper will present evidence from gay activists themselves indicating that behind the push for gay marriage lies a political agenda to radically change the institution of marriage itself...

You're still crossing the lines between homosexual behavior and behaviors correlated with homosexuality.

So far the only solid argument I've heard is "The Bible says it's a sin," and I can't accept that because I don't accept the concept of the Christian god and I don't accept the concept of sin.

[Igakusei]

The Bible can't be understood by the degenerate mind. Only through God's Spirit can we understand what seems to be a book full of contradictions. Even if one is spiritually mind doesn't mean he/she can give an answer to every point in the Bible. Somethings will have to wait....

I'm sorry, but this is a ridiculous notion.

There are thousands of different Christian denominations, who all have different collections of doctrines. Every single one of them believes that they are the true remnant church and that all of the others have been misled and confused. Almost all of them (I'm not going to make this claim for the Westboro Baptists) are filled with good, honest people who love God, each other, and earnestly seek the truth. If you ask almost any of them how they know they're the true remnant, they will give you basically the same answer: "I study the Bible and pray that Jesus will send the Holy Spirit to guide me."

If the Bible can only be understood by spiritual minds, why is it that spiritual minds are fractured into thousands of sub-groups who are all basically following the same methods to understanding? The same can't be said of former Christians, who tend to have very similar views on the Bible.

[Dr. Shane]

Why would God wipe out people who worshiped other gods? It doesn't fit God's character because the Bible plainly states that "God is agape". Agape loves its enemies...it doesn't force - it doesn't coerce. Compulsion and force comes from Satan.

I think you may be guilty of trying to force your definition of love onto God. God did not force the idol-worshiping nations to worship Him. He judged them in their sin and executed them. I don't see anyone's will being forced there.

[Dr. Shane]

So far the only solid argument I've heard is "The Bible says it's a sin," and I can't accept that because I don't accept the concept of the Christian god and I don't accept the concept of sin.

Well there you are. If you don't accept the Bible as being the inspired Word of God, then you must go by another standard. You can hardly fault Christians for believing as they do. Christians claim to believe in the Bible as the Word of God. Thus when asked why they don't accept homosexuality as part of God's will for humanity, citing the Bible should be the expected response from them.

[Dr. Shane]

There are thousands of different Christian denominations, who all have different collections of doctrines. Every single one of them believes that they are the true remnant church and that all of the others have been misled and confused.

[Igakusei]

Saying that there are "not that many Christian sects" and that they only consist of "Catholics, Orthodox, Anglican...." is like saying that there "only a few types of automobiles" and that they consist of "Cars, Trucks, and Motorcyles."

I mean, just within Adventism you've got dozens of splinter groups that believe the Adventists have gone apostate and that they have been called out as a remnant. Desmond Ford's movement, The Shepherd's Rod, Branch Davidians, etc. You on the other hand think that the main church is still the remnant and THEY are the ones who fell into apostasy.

Within Mormonism you have the Church of Jesus Christ, the Rigdonites, the Church of Christ, the Community of Christ, the two Churches of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (one following Strang, the other Young), and the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Yes, all of them teach that they are the true remnant and that the others are all going to burn.

We ourselves are one of the many branches of the original Baptists.

Within Methodists you've got the Salvation Army, Several different Churches of God, The Church of the Nazarene, the Assemblies of God, the Church of God, Calvary Chapel, the Vineyard churches, the Church of Christ, the international Church of Christ, and so on.

Most of those sub-groups have their own small splinter groups in similar fashion to our Desmond Fords and Shepherd's Rods.

I possibly overstated my argument that they all teach that they are the true remnant church, but I've had many conversations with committed Christians from many of these small groups and the tendency towards that belief is invariably there.

[Dr. Shane]

Saying that there are "not that many Christian sects" and that they only consist of "Catholics, Orthodox, Anglican...." is like saying that there "only a few types of automobiles" and that they consist of "Cars, Trucks, and Motorcyles."

Precisely. Good analogy. And all of those "cars, trucks and motorcycles" all have internal combustive engines too so they really are not that different from each other. There are a lot of different Christian denominations but when it gets down to fundamentals there are only a handful of sects. Of course, I am not counting the insignificant cults and splinter groups.

[Igakusei]

Originally Posted By: Igakusei

Saying that there are "not that many Christian sects" and that they only consist of "Catholics, Orthodox, Anglican...." is like saying that there "only a few types of automobiles" and that they consist of "Cars, Trucks, and Motorcyles."

Precisely. Good analogy. And all of those "cars, trucks and motorcycles" all have internal combustive engines too so they really are not that different from each other. There are a lot of different Christian denominations but when it gets down to fundamentals there are only a handful of sects. Of course, I am not counting the insignificant cults and splinter groups.

That's not the point.

[Sonny]

I'm sorry, but this is a ridiculous notion.

The Bible teaches this. I'll side with the Bible.

[Sonny]

I think you may be guilty of trying to force your definition of love onto God.

[Igakusei]

Originally Posted By: Igakusei

I'm sorry, but this is a ridiculous notion.

The Bible teaches this. I'll side with the Bible.

Care to address the rest of that post?

[Dr. Shane]

No, I'm not guilty of this. Show me in the NT one verse where Jesus hurt anyone....One! He came to reveal the Father.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Shane

I think you may be guilty of trying to force your definition of love onto God.

No, I'm not guilty of this. Show me in the NT one verse where Jesus hurt anyone....One! He came to reveal the Father.

Jesus didn't come the first time as judge or to condemn anyone. Rather He came to save. However, that will be different when He returns the second time. At that time He returns as King and Judge.

As Hebrews 9:27-28 says--

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, [28] so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Also:

2 Thes. 1:7-10

and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels

[8] in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. [9] They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, [10] when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.

2 Thes. 2:8

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.

Jude 1:5

Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

Rev. 14:14-20

Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. [15] And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, "Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe." [16] So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped.

[17] Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. [18] And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, "Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe." [19] So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. [20] And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse's bridle, for 1,600 stadia.

Rev. 19:16-21

On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

[17] Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, "Come, gather for the great supper of God, [18] to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great." [19] And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. [20] And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. [21] And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.

[LifeHiscost]

So far the only solid argument I've heard is "The Bible says it's a sin," and I can't accept that because I don't accept the concept of the Christian god and I don't accept the concept of sin.

What is a person doing on a forum that consists of people known to trust in the one Creator God, people who believe the Bible is His Word, and people who believe He is Love, unless of course the major purpose is to disrupt their confidence in His promises and government through subterfuge and dissimulation? The only person that would do that as a primary objective would be one who is subservient to another master, and believes the lie, "Thou shalt not surely die."

God blesses!

[Igakusei]

That's actually not my purpose.

[Woody]

That's actually not my purpose.

Please do tell us why you enjoy being here with all these Christians. And what your goal is.

[Sonny]

Acts 5:1-11

[Sonny]

Originally Posted By: Igakusei

That's actually not my purpose.

Please do tell us why you enjoy being here with all these Christians. And what your goal is.

Maybe to draw off disciples into his belief in unbelief?

[Bravus]

Or, as I have said before in relation to others, because he enjoys a discussion.

It's a discussion board, after all.

Those who don't understand conversation and can only think in terms of winning and losing and converting project that onto others.

I for one am delighted every poster posts here: it enriches the discussion.

[Igakusei]

Maybe to draw off disciples into his belief in unbelief?

Reading comprehension. Did you read the post I quoted?

Also, it's almost always impossible to rationalize people out of beliefs that are not based in rationality.

[Sonny]

[9] They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, [10] when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.

[Sonny]

Also, it's almost always impossible to rationalize people out of beliefs that are not based in rationality.

Here's reality: You are going to die. Reject Christ - reject the resurrection. Reject Christ - deal with the law in the judgment.

[Sonny]

because he enjoys a discussion.

That would assume you can read his motive.