Was Jesus Christ Born With a Sinful Nature like me?

[Gerr]

I still stand by my statement that Jesus Christ never stated that he is GOD. I DID NOT state that other persons DID NOT state that Jesus Christ is God by nature. Jesus Christ always referred to GOD as his Father and he referred to his Father as the "only true God"

Do I hear an echo of a couple of individuals in this forum?

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In regard to Ellen White, she never said that Jesus Christ is 100% God in the same respect that the Father is GOD. He is not GOD in personality.

"The Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, is truly God in infinity, but not in personality. He has wrought out the righteousness that enables human beings to overcome every assault of Satan. He will impute His righteousness to the believing saint who walks as He walked when on earth. {UL 367.4}"

"In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. "He that hath the Son hath life." 1 John 5:12. The divinity of Christ is the believer's assurance of eternal life." DA 531

Jesus repelled the charge of blasphemy. My authority, He said, for doing the work of which you accuse Me, is that I am the Son of God, one with Him in nature, in will, and in purpose

White, E. G. (1898; 2002). The Desire of Ages; Conflict of the Ages Series, Volume 3; Desire of Ages (208). Pacific Press Publishing Association.

"“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me”—not through confessionals or priests or popes, but through Me, your Saviour. “Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.” This is the absolute Godhead."

Nichol, F. D. (1978; 2002). The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Volume 7 (914). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

[Sonny]

God could not have made Christ to be sin for us if He was already born with the principle of sin in Him.

Was Christ made sin or was God kidding? He was made sin the minute He was placed in Mary's womb. How? He took our humanity in it's fallen state. If not then you must teach what Catholics teach - the heresy of the Immaculate Conception.

[Gordon1]

"Man has no control over his life. But the life of Christ was unborrowed. No one can take this life from Him. "I lay it down of myself," He said. In Him was life, original, unborrowed, underived. This life is not inherent in man. He can possess it only through Christ. He cannot earn it, it is given him as a free gift if he will believe in Christ as his personal Saviour...This is the open fountain of life for the world."

- EGW in 5 Bible Commentary 1130. Also found in Signs of the Times Feb. 13, 1912.

Ellen White clearly states that man can possess life, original, unborrowed, underived.

Was this conveniently pen-knifed out of DA?

[Sonny]

CONCLUSION: The Holy Bible proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior is indeed God.

Right!

[Sonny]

when did Jesus become "sin for us"? At conception? Or at the Cross?

Gal 4:4 states that he was born of a woman, hence He came under the curse at conception.

[Dr. Waite]

You state: "In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. "He that hath the Son hath life." 1 John 5:12. The divinity of Christ is the believer's assurance of eternal life." DA 531"

Where did Christ get this life (original, unborrowed, underived) from?

John 5:26 states: "For as the Father has life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself"

Can Christ give this life (original, unborrowed, underived)which he received from his Father to others?

"In him was life; and the life was the light of men" (John 1:4). It is not physical life that is here specified, but immortality, the life which is exclusively the property of God. The Word, who was with God, and who was God, had this life. Physical life is something which each individual receives. It is not eternal or immortal; for God, the Life-giver, takes it again. Man has no control over his life. But the life of Christ was unborrowed. No one can take this life from Him. "I lay it down of myself" (John 10: 18), He said. In Him was life, original, unborrowed, underived. This life is not inherent in man. He can possess it only through Christ. He cannot earn it; it is given him as a free gift if he will believe in Christ as His personal Saviour. "This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent" (John 17:3). This is the open fountain of life for the world. {1SM 296.2}"

[Gordon1]

Hi Gerry,

Is that F.D. Nichols' term, "absolute Godhead"?

Does one find that in BC 7A? If so, what page?

[John317]

I still stand by my statement that Jesus Christ never stated that he is GOD.

I challenge you to read carefully all the quotes that I am sending you.

Christ did say it here:

John 8:58

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

Compare Exodus 3: 14. Also compare Ellen White's comments on these verses.

Ellen White wrote:

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Silence fell upon the vast assembly. The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been

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claimed as His own by this Galilean Rabbi. He had announced Himself to be the self-existent One, He who had been promised to Israel, "whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity."--Ibid., p. 469. {7ABC 438.6}

The world's Redeemer was equal with God. His authority was as the authority of God. He declared that he had no existence separate from the Father. The authority by which he spoke, and wrought miracles, was expressly his own, yet he assures us that he and the Father are one.--The Review and Herald, Jan. 7, 1890, p. 1. {7ABC 439.1}

Jehovah, the eternal, self-existent, uncreated One, Himself the source and sustainer of all, is alone entitled to supreme reverence and worship.--Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 305. {7ABC 439.2}

Jehovah is the name given to Christ.

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If men reject the testimony of the inspired Scriptures concerning the deity of Christ, it is in vain to argue the point with them; for no argument, however conclusive, could convince them. "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14. None who hold this error can have a true conception of the character or the mission of Christ, or of the great plan of God for man's redemption. {DD 10.1}

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

I DID NOT state that other persons DID NOT state that Jesus Christ is God by nature.

None of the verses say tht Christ is God "by nature." They state that Christ is God. FULLY God. ALL the wholeness of God lives in Christ's body. Col. 2: 9. That is referring to the very essence of Deity, as opposted to atributes.

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

Jesus Christ always referred to GOD as his Father

Of course. That's because Jesus Christ was a ma, and as a man born of the Holy Spirit, He had God as His literal Father.

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

and he referred to his Father as the "only true God"

Jesus Christ is also "true God," unless you want to say Christ was a false god. Jesus Christ is the God-man. The Father is not.

John 1: 1 teaches that the the Word (Christ) was everything that the Father is. The last part of that verse says, "What God was, the Word was." See REB.

Romans 9: 5 says that "Christ is God over ALL." Ellen White wrote that Christ is the eternal, self-existent Son of God, and calls Him "omnipotent," which means "all-powerful."

Romans 9:5

To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

In regard to Ellen White, she never said that Jesus Christ is 100% God in the same respect that the Father is GOD.

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"Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." This is the absolute Godhead. The mightiest created intellect cannot comprehend Him; words from the most eloquent tongue fail to describe Him. Silence is eloquence. {7BC 914.1}

See Evangelism 614-617.

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The Father is all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, and is invisible to mortal sight.

The Son is all the fullness of the Godhead manifested. The Word of God declares Him to be "the express image of His person." Ev. 614

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Though He had humbled Himself to humanity, the Godhead was still His own. Christ alone could represent the Father to humanity, and this representation the disciples had been privileged to behold for over three years. {DA 663.5}

She said that Christ is God in the highest sense. In other words, the Father is not God in any higher sense than Christ.

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Over the rent sepulcher of Joseph, Christ had proclaimed in triumph, “I am the resurrection, and the life.” These words could be spoken only by the Deity. CSA chapter 11

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Christ Himself is the pearl of great price. In Him is gathered all the glory of the Father, the fullness of the Godhead. He is the brightness of the Father's glory and the express image of His person. The glory of the attributes of God is expressed in His character. COL 115

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The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave Themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. In order fully to carry out this plan, it was decided that Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, should give Himself an offering for sin. What line can measure the depth of this love? God would make it impossible for man to say that He could have done more.CH 222

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There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers --the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-- Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905) {Ev 615.1}

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The Pre-existent, Self-existent Son of God.--Christ is the pre-existent, self-existent Son of God.... In speaking of his pre-existence, Christ carries the mind back through dateless ages. He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God. He to whose voice the Jews were then listening had been with God as one brought up with Him.--Signs of the Times, Aug. 29, 1900. {Ev 615.2}

He was equal with God, infinite and omnipotent. . . . He is the eternal, self-existent Son.--Manuscript 101, 1897. {Ev 615.3}

From Everlasting.--While God's Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding His pre-existence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with His Father. From everlasting He was the Mediator of the covenant, the one in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted Him, were to be blessed. "The Word was with God, and the Word was God." Before men or angels were created, the Word was with

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God, and was God.--Review and Herald, April 5, 1906. {Ev 615.4}

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Third Person of the Godhead

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. 2 Corinthians 13:14. {FLB 52.1}

We need to realize that the Holy Spirit . . . is as much a person as God is a person. . . . {FLB 52.2}

The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. {FLB 52.3}

The Holy Spirit is a free, working, independent agency. The God of heaven uses His Spirit as it pleases Him; and human minds, human judgment, and human methods can no more set boundaries to its working, or prescribe the channel through which it shall operate, than they can say to the wind, "I bid you to blow in a certain direction, and to conduct yourself in such and such a manner." {FLB 52.4}

From the beginning God has been working by His Holy Spirit through human instrumentalities for the accomplishment of His purpose in behalf of the fallen race. . . . The same power that sustained the patriarchs, that gave Caleb and Joshua faith and courage, and that made the work of the apostolic church effective, has upheld God's faithful children in every succeeding age. {FLB 52.5}

The Holy Spirit was the highest of all gifts that He [Jesus] could solicit from His Father for the exaltation of His people. The Spirit was to be given as a regenerating agent, and without this the sacrifice of Christ would have been of no avail. The power of evil had been strengthening for centuries, and the submission of men to this satanic captivity was amazing. Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the third person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. {FLB 52.6}

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Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father,--one in nature, in character, in purpose,--the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. "His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of peace" (Isaiah 9:6). His "goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting" (Micah 5:2).--Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 34. {7ABC 437.2}

The Jews had never before heard such words from human lips, and a convicting influence attended them; for it seemed that divinity flashed through humanity as Jesus said, "I and my Father are one." The words of Christ were full of deep meaning as he put forth the claim that he and the Father were of one substance, possessing the same attributes.--The Signs of the Times, Nov. 27, 1893, p. 54. {7ABC 437.3}

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Yet the Son of God was the acknowledged Sovereign of heaven, one in power and authority with the Father.--The Great Controversy, p. 495. {7ABC 437.4}

To save the transgressor of God's law, Christ, the one equal with the Father, came to live heaven before men, that they might learn to know what it is to have heaven in the heart. He illustrated what man must be to be worthy of the precious boon of the life that measures with the life of God.--Fundamentals of Christian Education, p. 179. {7ABC 437.5}

The only way in which the fallen race could be restored was through the gift of his Son, equal with himself, possessing the attributes of God. Though so highly exalted, Christ consented to assume human nature, that he might work in behalf of man and reconcile to God his disloyal subject. When man rebelled, Christ

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pleaded his merits in his behalf, and became man's substitute and surety. He undertook to combat the powers of darkness in man's behalf, and he prevailed, conquering the enemy of our souls, and presenting to man the cup of salvation.--The Review and Herald, Nov. 8, 1892, p. 690. {7ABC 437.6}

The world was made by him, "and without him was not anything made that was made." If Christ made all things, he existed before all things. The words spoken in regard to this are so decisive that no one need be left in doubt. Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore. . . . {7ABC 438.1}

Continued

[John317]

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III. Three Persons in the Godhead

There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers--the Father, the Son, and the

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Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-- Evangelism, p. 615. {7ABC 441.9}

The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption.--Counsels on Health, p. 222. {7ABC 442.1}

Those who proclaim the third angel's message must put on the whole armor of God, that they may stand boldly at their post, in the face of detraction and falsehood, fighting the good fight of faith, resisting the enemy with the word, "It is written." Keep yourselves where the three great powers of heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can be your efficiency. These powers work with the one who gives himself unreservedly to God. The strength of heaven is at the command of God's believing ones. The man who takes God as his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall.--The Southern Watchman, Feb. 23, 1904, p. 122. {7ABC 442.2}

Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the fulfilment of the covenant that God has made with those who bind themselves up with Him, to stand with Him, with His Son, and with His Spirit in holy fellowship. Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then co-operate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf. Doing this you will reveal to the world the principles of righteousness.--The Signs of the Times, June 19, 1901. {7ABC 442.3}

The eternal heavenly dignitaries--God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit--arming them [the disciples] with more than mortal energy, . . . would advance with them to the work and convince the world of sin.--Evangelism, p. 616. {7ABC 442.4}

We are to co-operate with the three highest powers in heaven, --the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost,--and these powers will work through us, making us workers together with God.-- Ibid., p. 617. {7ABC 442.5}

Those who are baptized in the threefold name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, at the very entrance of their Christian life declare publicly that they have forsaken the service of Satan and have become members of the royal family, children of the heavenly king.--Testimonies, vol. 6, p. 91. {7ABC 442.6}

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In contemplating the incarnation of Christ in humanity, we stand baffled before an unfathomable mystery, that the human mind cannot comprehend. The more we reflect upon it, the more amazing does it appear. How wide is the contrast between the divinity of Christ and the helpless infant in Bethlehem's manger! How can we span the distance between the mighty God and a helpless child? And yet the Creator of worlds, He in whom was the fullness of the Godhead bodily, was manifest in the helpless babe in the manger. Far higher than any of the angels, equal with the Father in dignity and glory, and yet wearing the garb of humanity! Divinity and humanity were mysteriously combined, and man and God became one. It is in this union that we find the

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hope of our fallen race. Looking upon Christ in humanity, we look upon God, and see in Him the brightness of His glory, the express image of His person.--The Signs of the Times, July 30, 1896.

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He who said, “I lay down my life, that I might take it again,” came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Humanity died; divinity did not die. In His divinity, Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death.—YI Aug. 4, 1898. {TA 209.3}

Christ in His Godhead shone forth as He burst from the tomb, and rose triumphant over death and the grave.—ST May 30, 1895. {TA 209.4}

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The eternal Godhead--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost--is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent, . . . confederating the heavenly powers with the human that man may become, through heavenly efficiency, partakers of the divine nature and workers together with Christ. {UL 148.4}

Man's capabilities can multiply through the connection of human agencies with divine agencies. United with the heavenly powers, the human capabilities increase according to that faith that works by love and purifies, sanctifies, and ennobles the whole man.--Manuscript 45, May 14, 1904, "That They All May Be One." {UL 148.5}

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Those who have by baptism given to God a pledge of their faith in Christ, and their death to the old life of sin, have entered into covenant relation with God. The three powers of the Godhead, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are pledged to be their strength and their efficiency in their new life in Christ Jesus. {AUCR, October 7, 1907 par. 9}

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The three powers of the Godhead have pledged their might to carry out the purpose that God had in mind when he gave to the world the unspeakable gift of his Son.RH, July 18, 1907

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He came forth from the grave to vindicate his previous claims, to confirm the faith of his followers, to establish the truth of his Godhead before men, to make doubly sure the assurance that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ST May 30, 1895

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The Lord Jesus is the embodiment of the glory of the Godhead. The light of the knowledge of the glory of God is seen in the face of Jesus Christ. God has revealed himself to men; he stooped to take upon him our nature, and in his Son we see the glory of the divine attributes. .... {ST, December 12, 1895 par. 4}

In Christ Jesus is a revelation of the glory of the Godhead. All that the human agent can know of God to the saving of the soul, is the measure of the knowledge of the truth as it is in Jesus, to which he can attain; for Christ is he who represents the Father. The most wonderful truth to be grasped by men is the truth, "Immanuel, God with us." Christ is the wisdom of God. He is the great "I AM" to the world. STDec. 12, 1895

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Here is where the work of the Holy Ghost comes in, after your baptism. You are baptized in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. You are raised up out of the water to live henceforth in newness of life--to live a new life. You are born unto God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest beings in heaven, who are able to keep you from falling. You are to reveal that you are dead to sin; your life is hid with Christ in God. Hidden "with Christ in God,"--wonderful transformation. This is a most precious promise. When I feel oppressed, and hardly know how to relate myself toward the work that God has given me to do,

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I just call upon the three great Worthies, and say; You know I cannot do this work in my own strength. You must work in me, and by me and through me, sanctifying my tongue, sanctifying my spirit, sanctifying my words, and bringing me into a position where my spirit shall be susceptible to the movings of the Holy Spirit of God upon my mind and character. {7MR 267.2}

All she is saying here is that Christ worked out and developed a human personality while on earth. See below:

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The Father was represented in Christ, and the attention in education must be of that character that they will look to Him and believe in Him as the likeness of God. He had a most wonderful mission to this world, and His work was not in a line to give a full relation of His personal claims to deity, but His humiliation was a concealment of His claims. This is why the Jewish nation did not acknowledge Christ as the Prince of life; because He did not come with display and outward appearance, for He hid under the garb of humanity His glorious character. {FE 381.2}

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We Shall Have to Meet Erroneous Teaching.-- Again and again we shall be called to meet the influence of men who are studying sciences of satanic origin, through which Satan is working to make a nonentity of God and of Christ. The Father and the Son each have a personality. Christ declared, "I and My Father are one." Yet it was the Son of God who came to the world in human form. Laying aside His royal robe and kingly crown, He clothed His divinity with humanity, that humanity through His infinite sacrifice might become partakers of the divine nature, and escape the corruption that is in the world through lust.--Testimonies, vol. 9, p. 68. (1909) {Ev 613.3}

The above paragraphs explain why Christ didn't tell people that He was God. It was because Christ came here to live as a human being and not to live as God among men.

[doug yowell]

Woody,

Thank you. We are on same page then because I believe in Scripture as the only TRUMP CARD!

I didn't think Trump was a Christian??? But I guess that's on another thread.

[doug yowell]

I still stand by my statement that Jesus Christ never stated that he is GOD. I DID NOT state that other persons DID NOT state that Jesus Christ is God by nature. Jesus Christ always referred to GOD as his Father and he referred to his Father as the "only true God"

Uh, excuse me. "Before Abraham was, I AM" "You have seen me, you have seen the Father" "I and My Father are One" "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working." "You rightly say that I AM." Since JOhn,Peter,Andrew, Paul, reaffirmed His stated Divinity how can you make such a statement,doc?

[miz3]

I don't know what Dr. Waite is driving at, however I did see him write that "Jesus Christ never said that He was God."

I did not see Dr. Waite assert that others did not says that Jesus Christ was God.

To me it is conclusively established that Jesus is God!!!!!!!!! I say this because we have the testimony of at least others in the Bible that say so in large numbers.

The question then is narrowed to whether Jesus Christ, Himself, asserted that He was God?

Give the Bible texts where Jesus Christ asserts Himself that He is God! Not that He is the Son of Man, or the Son of God, or any other label but that He is God.

[miz3]

Thank you Doug!

Dr. Waite does Doug's Biblical list hold water?

[Gordon1]

The Father and Son are separate persons. The Son is the Angel of the LORD, the Anointed One of God, resurrected by God His Father. No man hath seen God the Father, the Ancient of Days, but many saw and handled the Son of God. Only the Father hath immortality.

The Son is subject to the Father, always has been, always will be. "I delight to do thy will O my God". When all principalities and powers are put down, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him. 1 Corinthians 15:28. I will write upon him the name of my God. Revelation 3:12.

Satan denies that Christ is the Son of God - "If thou be the Son of God..." for he seeks to sow confusion regarding the government of God - The order which God established from the foundation of the world. Christ was the Son of God before creation. God sent His dear Son into a fallen world, His Only Begotten Son.

When the Son of God came to Bethlehem, He also became the Son of Man.

Satan's rebellion concerned the authority of the Son, and this remains the fallen angels' chief accusation. Rebels deny the Son, and thus the Father too. Whosever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. I John 2:23. This is antichrist (v. 22) and charges the Father with a lie.

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:5.

For God so loved the world that He sent His only Begotten Son. Babylon seeks to change this gospel order with role-playing fiction. No safety in drinking her wine.

"Those who derided His claim to be the Son of God are speechless now...there rises a cry of mortal agony...swells the awful despairing wail, "He is the Son of God! He is the true Messiah!" They seek to flee from the King of kings." GC 643-4

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

when did Jesus become "sin for us"? At conception? Or at the Cross?

Gal 4:4 states that he was born of a woman, hence He came under the curse at conception.

If He was under curse at conception, He would have needed a Saviour for Himself. When was the curse of the law laid on Him?

ESV | Mt 26:39 And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.”

If the curse of the law was laid on Him at conception, He would have been forsaken at conception! That is not the case.

ESV | Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

And when is the Lamb sacrificed? At conception?

[Gerr]

Hi Gerry,

Is that F.D. Nichols' term, "absolute Godhead"?

Does one find that in BC 7A? If so, what page?

My understanding is that this was an EGW quote. It is in 7BC p.915. I believe it was quoted from MS 128, 1897.

Let me know if this is in error.

[miz3]

To those who believe that Jesus Christ was born with a "sinful nature" just like you and I.

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin." Hebrews 4:15.

This text seems to be the crowning argument that since Jesus Christ was "tempted in every way" or "in all points" like us that He must have had a "sinful nature".

NOT SO MY FRIENDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was Christ tempted to smoke maryjane? Was Christ tempted to watch evil things on TV? etc. etc.

Of course the answer is NO! Then how could Jesus Christ be tempted "in all points" or "in every way" "just as we are"?

The answer is very simple:

There is basically ONE TEMPTATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All forms of temptation are from one root. What is that root?

That root is to do your own thing rather than depend on God for everything. In other words take care of the issue yourself, your way, instead of depending on God and doing things God's way.

Thus, it does not matter whether one has and/or is born with a "sinless nature" or a "sinful nature", all have been tempted the same. The vehicle or the particulars in this case are not relevant!!!

Jesus Christ was born with a "sinLESS nature" like Adam and was tempted in every way the same as everyone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sonny]

Thus, it does not matter whether one has and/or is born with a "sinless nature" or a "sinful nature", all have been tempted the same.

No, if you don't have a sinful nature you can't be tempted. Christ was tempted to come down off the cross, save himself, and let the world go to hell. That was the love of self, dwelling in His humanity, tempting him with the love of self (our bent to self)

[miz3]

That's horrible logic Sonny besides it is based on zero evidence!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The idea that one who has a sinless nature cannot be tempted is not Biblical.

Adam had a sinless nature and so did Eve. Both were tempted in the Garden and both fell!!!!

Adam and Eve prove your statement to be wrong!!!!!!!

[Gordon1]

Originally Posted By: Gordon1

Hi Gerry,

Is that F.D. Nichols' term, "absolute Godhead"?

Does one find that in BC 7A? If so, what page?

My understanding is that this was an EGW quote. It is in 7BC p.915. I believe it was quoted from MS 128, 1897.

Let me know if this is in error.

Hi Gerry, checking in the 7A BC hard copy, the actual page is 914.

[Gerr]

There is basically ONE TEMPTATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All forms of temptation are from one root. What is that root?

That root is to do your own thing rather than depend on God for everything. In other words take care of the issue yourself, your way, instead of depending on God and doing things God's way.

Thus, it does not matter whether one has and/or is born with a "sinless nature" or a "sinful nature", all have been tempted the same. The vehicle or the particulars in this case are not relevant!!!

Jesus Christ was born with a "sinLESS nature" like Adam and was tempted in every way the same as everyone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you have something here.

[Woody]

Our nature is to depend upon ourselves. To have ANYthing different ... it would have to be given to us as a gift from God.

[Sonny]

Adam had a sinless nature and so did Eve. Both were tempted in the Garden and both fell!!!!

Adam and Eve prove your statement to be wrong!!!!!!!

Tell me, Miz3, how Adam & Eve were tempted? How was Eve tempted "to be as gods"? Why was Adam tempted to chose Eve over God? Keep in mind that both of them were indwelt by agape.

[Sonny]

Sin originated in heaven in the mind of Lucifer, the head of the angelic beings. The Bible does not explain how sin could begin with a perfect being, because sin is unexplainable. Hence, it is referred to as “the mystery of iniquity.”

[miz3]

Well said to both Gerry and Woody!!! We agree!

Te Sonhy,

You just made my point!!!!! Eve was tempted to what she thought was in her best interest which replaced God's express command. Adam was tempted to see Eve as more important than God which again is against God's express command.

Neither Adam or Eve depended on God but depended instead on self and what self could do to solve the issue. Thus, they succumbed to the same temptation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ever since all humans have been slaves to this same temptation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is in our Nature. Thus, the "Sinful Nature" that Paul talks so much about!!!!!!