Was Jesus Christ Born With a Sinful Nature like me?

[ClubV12]

I do believe perfection is possible, though I fall far short of the goal. Still, that possibility exists through faith in God and it remains a worthy goal. It is not from a sense of guilt I pursue this, it is because I want to be more like Him.

The BIG difference between most of us and Jesus is the the extra ordinary time He spent in prayer, leaning on the Father for strength. When was the last time you awoke early in the morning and sought out a place of solitude and prayed for hours? I would like to know more about how that is possible, without, like the disciples, falling asleep!

Someone mentioned it was like when your visiting family or friends and the hours fly by as you talk. Until, at some point, you realize how late is the hour and you've just touched on all the things you want to talk about. Oh for a connection to Christ like that!!!

I've heard it said, prayer should be like breathing!

[Musicman1228]

Jesus DID NOT have a sinful nature. Jesus IS God; He identified Himself to the Pharisees as being the "I AM". And while God (Father, Mother-Holy Spirit, Jesus) has the knowledge of sin they in no way PRACTICE sin.

Mary was the birth mother of Jesus, a surrogate into which the Almighty God and the Holy Spirit implanted a zygote that matured into a human baby, and upon His birth He was named 'Son of God'. Mary did not contribute ANY of her DNA to Jesus; had she done this then Jesus would have contained sin right down to His DNA and could not have been names 'Son of God', because the family of God contains NO SIN of any kind.

If we want to enter the Kingdom of Heaven then we (as Jesus) must practice NO sin. Jesus overcame sin from the position of having the sinless nature of God. On the other hand we created human beings DO have a sinful nature with the knowledge of sin, and yet it is fully expected of us to overcome that nature and refuse to PRACTICE sin. Jesus told us that we must "be perfect, even as our Father in Heaven is perfect". This 'being perfect' simply means that we must not PRACTICE/DO sin. We have also been assured that through the power of the Holy Spirit that we can (and must) do this.

[Flyboy]

I do believe perfection is possible, though I fall far short of the goal. Still, that possibility exists through faith in God and it remains a worthy goal. It is not from a sense of guilt I pursue this, it is because I want to be more like Him.

If perfection is possible then why does the Bible say that all men have sinned? Was is talking about only up to that point in history, and that future men could be perfect, or was it laying down a spiritual law that no man, at no time, would ever be perfect? I think it was the latter, otherwise, if we are perfect, why do we need the glory of God? That is what this verse implies, isn't it? All men have sinned and therefore need God.... suggesting that if a man hadn't sinned he wouldn't need the glory of God?

[ClubV12]

Having sinned in the past does preclude being perfect in the future.

Samson was perfect, when blind and captive he prayed for the strength to bring down columns. The thief on the cross was also perfect. However both of those examples pertain to the last minutes of a dieing mans confession and acceptance of perfection by faith and grace.

Perfection is possible in our everyday life as we go through our daily process', by faith and grace it is accounted to us. IF we choose to accept it, or, we can and often do, chose our own path. Usually accompanied by the thought, "Perfection is impossible, so why bother". It's not impossible.

[Woody]

Quote:

I think it was the latter, otherwise, if we are perfect, why do we need the glory of God?

I agree. This is a serious point. If we become perfect ... we don't need the sacrifice of Jesus. We become like God. This is something unbiblical.

The answer to the OP is simple. NO. Christ had no sin. To have a sinful nature IS sin.

[Musicman1228]

Quote:

I think it was the latter, otherwise, if we are perfect, why do we need the glory of God?

I agree. This is a serious point. If we become perfect ... we don't need the sacrifice of Jesus. We become like God. This is something unbiblical.

The answer to the OP is simple. NO. Christ had no sin. To have a sinful nature IS sin.

Woody,

The 'glory of God' IS perfection of righteousness in us through the power of the Holy Spirit. See Num. 14:21. God's statement to Moses was that the 'Glory of the Lord WILL fill the whole earth'. God's glory cannot be established in a world still filled with sin. And since God does not force His nature on anyone it is up to us to attain to perfection in order to prove God correct.

The death of Jesus on the cross did not make us perfect, it did not remove a single sin from anyone. What it did was to pay the PENALTY for our sin so that our attaining to righteousness/perfection would have meaning and purpose. It is the process of sanctification (of which Jesus often speaks) that will eventually draw out the poison of sin from our lives, and replace that sin with TRUTH, the truth that comes from abiding in the words of Jesus (John 17:17).

Ref. Rev. 3:21 as our reward for overcoming sin.

[Gail]

Quote:

Woody,

The 'glory of God' IS perfection of righteousness in us through the power of the Holy Spirit. See Num. 14:21. God's statement to Moses was that the 'Glory of the Lord WILL fill the whole earth'. God's glory cannot be established in a world still filled with sin. And since God does not force His nature on anyone it is up to us to attain to perfection in order to prove God correct.

The death of Jesus on the cross did not make us perfect, it did not remove a single sin from anyone. What it did was to pay the PENALTY for our sin so that our attaining to righteousness/perfection would have meaning and purpose. It is the process of sanctification (of which Jesus often speaks) that will eventually draw out the poison of sin from our lives, and replace that sin with TRUTH, the truth that comes from abiding in the words of Jesus (John 17:17).

Ah- so there IS hope for my life today!

[Sonny]

The death of Jesus on the cross did not make us perfect, it did not remove a single sin from anyone. What it did was to pay the PENALTY for our sin so that our attaining to righteousness/perfection would have meaning and purpose.

Oh boy....This is salvation by works!

Clearly you died in the body of Christ. (Romans 6/7) Your life died in Him. You are the problem...you had to die and you did in Christ. In fact the whole human race died in the humanity of Christ.

Here's a verse. See if you can find it. "When One died, ALL died."

[wayfinder]

The following is righteousness/salvation by works.

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;

27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,

29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Revelation 22:12 NAS

"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

Read Revelation 2 and 3, see how many times deeds/works are the subject and are what the determined result in the judgment is. You will not find in all of the prophecies given by the Son of God where He even suggests that we are saved on His merits, or that we must die first (either spiritually or physically) before we can receive eternal life.

[Sonny]

The following is righteousness/salvation by works.

Revelation 22:12

Revelation is very symbolic. Go to the clear texts and prove salvation by works.

[miz3]

Sonny,

Great job!

Wayfinder,

God is rewarding us for our works, He is not saving us for our works. You are mistaken in your interpretation. Read it carefully.

[Dr. Rich]

WHAT did you 'say' sonny? Huh? Did I just read your own confession that you don't understand end time events? Let's see now, Dan. 12:10 tells us that God said NONE of the wicked will understand (and therefore believe Revelation is all symbolic). Oh, that's right, Revelation was the information about how and when the end events will happen that the Father told His Son about, so that Jesus could give the SAME information to His Bondservants who are living in the last generation to KNOW and UNDERSTAND the same thing so they will not be surprised like the wicked will be when it happens. Isn't that what verse one thru three is all about?

And Sonny, are the words of Jesus given to us by John just symbolic too---or are they clear as mud for you?

Matthew 13:10: And the discipls came and said to Him "Why do You speak to them in parables?"

Matt. 13:11: And He answered and said to them, "To you it has been granted to know the MYSTERIES of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it has NOT been granted."

Oh dear! Does this mean that those who do not undertand Revelation and believe it all is symbolic have not been granted by God to know the 'mysteries' of the Kingdom of Heaven/The Book of Revelation?

[miz3]

Dr. Rich,

Leave Sonny alone. Your jibberish is just that.

You are so confused yourself that you don't know what you are saying.

[wayfinder]

So you ignore what is in Revelation because it is "symbolic"? What is a symbol, but something used to represent something literal. Jesus used symbols, parables, and analogies in His testimony, does that mean we should ignore what He said because He uses this method?

Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"

11 Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

12 "For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.

13 "Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

14 "In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,'YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;

15 FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL, WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR, AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.

Revelation 22:11 NAS

"Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong ; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy ; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness ; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."

Never-the=less, here is what you asked for.

John 3:19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

Matthew 19:17 NAS

And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good ? There is only One who is good ; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

John 14:15 NAS

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

John 15:10 NAS

"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love ; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Deuteronomy 6:25 NAS

"It will be righteousness for us if we are careful to observe all this commandment before the LORD our God, just as He commanded us.

Deuteronomy 4:3 "Your eyes have seen what the LORD has done in the case of Baal-peor, for all the men who followed Baal-peor, the LORD your God has destroyed them from among you.

4 "But you who held fast to the LORD your God are alive today, every one of you.

5 "See, I have taught you statutes and judgments just as the LORD my God commanded me, that you should do thus in the land where you are entering to possess it.

6 "So keep and do them, for that is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples who will hear all these statutes and say, 'Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.'

7 "For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as is the LORD our God whenever we call on Him?

8 "Or what great nation is there that has statutes and judgments as righteous as this whole law which I am setting before you today ?

9 "Only give heed to yourself and keep your soul diligently, so that you do not forget the things which your eyes have seen and they do not depart from your heart all the days of your life ; but make them known to your sons and your grandsons.

10 "Remember the day you stood before the LORD your God at Horeb, when the LORD said to me, 'Assemble the people to Me, that I may let them hear My words so they may learn to fear Me all the days they live on the earth, and that they may teach their children.'

11 "You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire to the very heart of the heavens : darkness, cloud and thick gloom.

12 "Then the LORD spoke to you from the midst of the fire ; you heard the sound of words, but you saw no form -only a voice.

13 "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments ; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Isaiah 26:2 NKJV

Open the gates, That the righteous nation which keeps the truth may enter in.

[Guest]

Jesus DID NOT have a sinful nature. Jesus IS God; He identified Himself to the Pharisees as being the "I AM". And while God (Father, Mother-Holy Spirit, Jesus) has the knowledge of sin they in no way PRACTICE sin.

[Sonny]

Never-the=less, here is what you asked for.

John 3:19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

The death of Jesus on the cross did not make us perfect, it did not remove a single sin from anyone. What it did was to pay the PENALTY for our sin so that our attaining to righteousness/perfection would have meaning and purpose.

Oh boy....This is salvation by works!

Clearly you died in the body of Christ. (Romans 6/7) Your life died in Him. You are the problem...you had to die and you did in Christ. In fact the whole human race died in the humanity of Christ.

Here's a verse. See if you can find it. "When One died, ALL died."

I agree Sonny. But that is what we often face here. It is a sign of the times. It was foretold that in the end days we would face this.

[Gustave]

The title is the question.

Some say Jesus Christ was born with a sinful nature like you and I.

Others say Jesus Christ was born with a Sinless Nature like Adam.

Which is it?

Christ Incarnated into flesh thousands of years wrecked with sin...

...Therefore the Flesh which was Christ's - was our weak, infirm flesh.

...Christ was NOT born with a "sin nature"!

...And to say so is a blasphemous teaching which, according to Scriptures.

...Defaults INTO Jesus NOT being 'The Christ'.

[miz3]

Sonny,

Good job!

[Woody]

Sonny,

Good job!

Yep. U will find that Sonny usually does do a good job.

[wayfinder]

Here is the context: Belief in, is not only acknowledging that Jesus is the Christ, but belief in and practice of His testimony. His testimony is the truth and that is why He emphesized the importance, value, and necessity of knowing and practicing the truth. If you abide in My word, you are truly a disciple of mine and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free... Those who practice the truth come into the light... For this reason I was born and came into the world, to testify to the truth, and all those who are of the truth will hear My voice.

The context of John chp.3 is the importance of the testimony of the Son of God. It is how one may be born anew by the Spirit of Truth. The kingdom of God and those in the world who believe in God's only Son will be saved by believing in and practicing the truth.

The rich young ruler was told to sell all that he had and give to the poor and "come follow Me". Jesus was not emphesizing giving to the poor, but following Him, as a disciple. As a disciple he would hear His testimony. Jesus knew that if the rich young ruler were to continue managing his business he would not have time to listen.

John 8:31 NAS

So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;

32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

John 18:37 NAS

Therefore Pilate said to Him, "So You are a king ?" Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."

John 19:35 NAS

And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true ; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe.

John 3:33 NAS

"He who has received His testimony has set his seal to this, that God is true.

Matthew 19:21 NAS

Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

Matthew 10:38 NAS

"And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

Matthew 16:24 NAS

Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

John 12:26 NAS

"If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also ; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.

John 3:36 NAS

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life ; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Matthew 4:23 NAS

Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people.

Matthew 24:14 NAS

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The testimony of Jesus is the gospel of the kingdom! Where do we learn His testimony, from the Holy Spirit/Spirit of Truth, Who gives us the understanding of the writings of those who heard His testimony.

Matthew 7:24 NAS

"Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

Matthew 7:26 NAS

"Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

John 14:24 NAS

"He who does not love Me does not keep My words ; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.

John 17:15 "I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.

16 "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.

18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.

19 "For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.

20 "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word ;

21 that they may all be one ; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Their Future Glory

22 "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;

23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

24 "Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

25 "O righteous Father, although the world has not known You, yet I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me;

26 and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

Revelation 12:17 NAS

So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

I find it ironic that I am critisized for emphasizing the great importance of knowing the testimony of Jesus, as recorded by His eyewitness/earwitness disciples.

[miz3]

Sonny,

The "works" crowd is working overtime.

[Woody]

Sonny,

The "works" crowd is working overtime.

Nothing new for here unfortunately.

We have a battle to teach truth in these the last days.

[Dr. Rich]

Rev. 12:17 points out that this 'war' will be those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the testimony of Jesus against those who believe that 'works' are meaningless and because they are saved by grace and believe in righteousness by faith.

Therefore, the battle is just starting to get heated as the line is being drawn in the sand under the fence. Right now there are many who are sitting on that fence who are unable to move. The 'shaking' will cause them to fall one way or the other as Jesus does not like the 'taste' of luke warm beliefs. Sadly, many will follow after the master of deception because the crowd is much easier to follow.

So, for those of you who may want to place your vote here, please note that it was Jesus who warned that few would enter the narrow gate, but many would be those who have become deceived and wind up on that 'parking lot' to destruction.

Was Jesus born with a sinful nature? Of course not! There was nothing sinful about Jesus Christ!

[Gustave]

Was Jesus born with a sinful nature? Of course not! There was nothing sinful about Jesus Christ!

AMEN! Nothing sinful about Christ at all as He was Eternally 'The Christ' our salavtion was ASSURED in...

...Prior to the creation of the world!

Suggesting Christ was born with a "sin nature" is absolute blasphemy of the worst sort...

...An alien concept which urinates on God Almighty.

...I'm with Dr. Rich on this one.