Modesty - what do you guys think?

[Dr. Shane]

Men are allowed to take off their shirts because historically society has been male-dominated and women just didn't stare and lust after men without shirts on. Now if the women's rights movements want to make things equal, I am willing to allow women to take off their shirts and go topless in public just like men.

That said, in the part of the world I live in, the UV rays won't let many people go topless for very long.

[doug yowell]

So a women walking down the street that you find visualy stimulating is harassing you???? Dude, you need some very narrow field of view blinders!!!

And men making innocent comments to a woman are taken to Human Services are not on a narrow field? Or women being addressed by men in the same way that men address other men finding it offensive and intimidating and going to court to punish them is equally as broad? If women can dress anyway they want in public why are men not free to speak anyway they want in public even if it offends the delicate sensibilities of the woman? If standards of modesty are determined by the individual alone then all are free to complain about someone else's standard. And women should quit feeling harassed if men stare them down and make (subjectively) suggestive remarks. Now,the original subject was directed at men and women in the church. That usually takes the issue off the streets and into a closer and more intimate interplay. Take that woman and have her walk down the isle at church and sit next to Shane or Gerry and doesn't the dynamic change? Are you arguing that the modesty standards of the secular society should be adopted by the church except that Christian men should be forced by those standards to overcome any inappropriate thoughts that those standards may incur?

[doug yowell]

Men are allowed to take off their shirts because historically society has been male-dominated and women just didn't stare and lust after men without shirts on.

Maybe that's because historically women aren't generally sexually stimulated by looking at men's upper bodies.

[doug yowell]

in the part of the world I live in, the UV rays won't let many people go topless for very long.

Nonsense. Over time the human body can adjust to almost anything. People in all parts of the world manage to accustom themselves to massive amounts of harmful things.

[doug yowell]

Now if the women's rights movements want to make things equal, I am willing to allow women to take off their shirts and go topless in public just like men.

Yeah, and your wife would be constantly slapping you silly!!

[Dr. Shane]

Nonsense. Over time the human body can adjust to almost anything.

Skin cancer is very common in this area. Many of the young girls will walk around with umbrellas on a clear, sunny day. Men wear wide-brimmed hats. Down here, most people know enough to protect themselves.

[Dr. Shane]

your wife would be constantly slapping you silly!!

No, because I know how to behave myself.

[cricket]

Double standards.

Irrational.

Done with conversation.

[CoAspen]

Ya think!!

[shelly]

Originally Posted By: Shane

Men are allowed to take off their shirts because historically society has been male-dominated and women just didn't stare and lust after men without shirts on.

Maybe that's because historically women aren't generally sexually stimulated by looking at men's upper bodies.

I guess you also believe women love the movie Fight Club because of the great plot. It has nothing to do with a shirtless Brad Pitt. I agree . . . I hardly noticed (yeah right!).

[doug yowell]

historically women aren't generally sexually stimulated by looking at men's upper bodies.

I guess you also believe women love the movie Fight Club because of the great plot. It has nothing to do with a shirtless Brad Pitt. I agree . . . I hardly noticed (yeah right!).

[Woody]

Quote:

would you feel the same way watching Ron Howard (or Woody) with his shirt off?

Hey ... leave me out of this mess. lol

Although I appreciate being placed alongside Ron Howard

[Bravus]

Doug, would you feel the same seeing Rosie O'Donnell or Roseanne Barr in a low-cut top? Not sure what your point is.

[John317]

Maybe that's because historically women aren't generally sexually stimulated by looking at men's upper bodies.

Women do enjoy looking at nice-looking men's bodies, but they generally don't view them the same way men do when looking at women's bodies. Men are simply more visual than women are.

A good example of this difference is that when women go to a place where nude men are dancing, the women generally do a lot of laughing and giggling, whereas men do a lot of very serious staring and lusting. They mean business. If given half a chance, your typcial man would have sex with that naked woman, whereas women are more likely to simply look and want nothing more. That's not to say that there aren't women who will do more, however.

Generally, women are more interested in a relationship and security, whereas men are more interested in sex for the sake of sex. Many men don't care if they know the woman or even exchange words with the woman. It's the same way with many gay men. On the other hand, gay women typically react very differently than gay men.

The bottom line is that the brains of men and women are wired differently.

[Gerr]

Doug, would you feel the same seeing Rosie O'Donnell or Roseanne Barr in a low-cut top? Not sure what your point is.

That there are some who, if seen au naturelle, you would flee from! Where I live is part of the diabetes & obesity belt of the USA. It is fairly common to see a woman or even a man, with a huge belly hanging halfway to their knees. How attractive is that to anyone?

[abelisle]

Why is this thread still going on?

Hmm . . . sexuality and religion - they obviously make for interesting bed partners

Alex

[shelly]

Women do enjoy looking at nice-looking men's bodies, but they generally don't view them the same way men do when looking at women's bodies. Men are simply more visual than women are.

A good example of this difference is that when women go to a place where nude men are dancing, the women generally do a lot of laughing and giggling, whereas men do a lot of very serious staring and lusting. They mean business. If given half a chance, your typcial man would have sex with that naked woman, whereas women are more likely to simply look and want nothing more. That's not to say that there aren't women who will do more, however.

Generally, women are more interested in a relationship and security, whereas men are more interested in sex for the sake of sex. Many men don't care if they know the woman or even exchange words with the woman. It's the same way with many gay men. On the other hand, gay women typically react very differently than gay men.

The bottom line is that the brains of men and women are wired differently.

Girl talk reveals something different than your describe. Why do you think so many women are obsessed with the size shoe or how big a man's hands are? And I know plenty of women who are contemplating what they would like to do rather than simply enjoying the view.

[Dr. Shane]

Why do you think so many women are obsessed with the size shoe or how big a man's hands are?

Because they believe in myths.

[Liz]

Originally Posted By: shelly

Why do you think so many women are obsessed with the size shoe or how big a man's hands are?

Because they believe in myths.

This reminds me of a joke about why women are so bad at math. Ya'll will have to pm me if you want the joke this is a family forum after all.

[Bravus]

To put it subtly, I'm guessing it's because men give them numbers that are less than entirely reliable.

[Liz]

To put it subtly, I'm guessing it's because men give them numbers that are less than entirely reliable.

Awww, you're no fun!!!

[cricket]

Women aren't bad at math. (Just sayin.')

[John317]

Girl talk reveals something different than your describe. Why do you think so many women are obsessed with the size shoe or how big a man's hands are? And I know plenty of women who are contemplating what they would like to do rather than simply enjoying the view.

You may have misunderstood what I said. I didn't mean to imply that women don't talk.

Actually, most women aren't obsessed with size. Most women don't really care and in fact many women prefer a medium size. Gay men are more likely than women to be obsessed with size, etc.

I also didn't mean to give the impression that when women are viewing a good looking man, none are thinking of what they would like to do. That is different from the way men think and what their intersts are. Men are far more likely to force a woman to have sex. Most women wouldn't think of doing this, because they see sex in an entirely different way.

The reason there are many nude or topless bars for men, and far fewer such places for women, is that men are more visual and more likely to enjoy being around naked women.

Men commonly ask taxi drivers for places where they can make a sexual contact, whether straight or gay. On the other hand, women are far less likely to ask a taxi driver for places where they can find a man for sex.

The xxx-shops are almost never visited by women looking to see a film with nude men in it, but millions of men go to them all the time. Many men go to them not only to watch a film but to have sex with men in a booth while they watch the film. There are many, in fact, who are addicted to this. Safe sex is not practiced here most of the time. Women will sometimes go to such places, but they are always with a man, never by themselves.

Again, it's because men generally approach sex much differently than do women. It probably has something to do with the fact that in major cities, it is common to find bars with nude women and houses of prostitution catering to men (both straight and gay) and very few such places catering to women.

[Gerr]

[shelly]

John, what I think you are saying that men are more aggressive in their pursuit of visual stimulation. While a man may pay to see exposed women, most women have the attitude that they can get a man to go along with what they have in mind pretty easily. Women simply aren't in the position where they would have to pay for it.