Modesty - what do you guys think?

[cricket]

Being a single guy for well over a decade...

Ah.

[CoAspen]

[ClubV12]

"Ah."

Now what am I supposed to make of that??? Feeling all paranoid and weird now.

Not really, man have I taken some heat from friends over the years who cannot grasp WHY in the world I remain single! The countless times I've been "set up" on surprise blind dates. Hinted at or openly accused of being gay. I've been single for one reason, I've been on a spiritual quest for a decade and was convinced that I was going somewhere a spouse would be unlikely to, or might not want to follow. I couldn't risk it. I remain on that spiritual quest, and praise God have made terrific progress as He has shown me the light. I refuse to be side tracked by anything or anybody, God willing.

By the way, I'll be baptized next month. I also took a lot of heat on that issue for waiting for so long. But I needed to be sure of just what this faith is all about and like Paul said, "Be convinced in my own mind."

[Woody]

"Ah."

Now what am I supposed to make of that??? Feeling all paranoid and weird now.

Not really, man have I taken some heat from friends over the years who cannot grasp WHY in the world I remain single! The countless times I've been "set up" on surprise blind dates. Hinted at or openly accused of being gay. I've been single for one reason, I've been on a spiritual quest for a decade and was convinced that I was going somewhere a spouse would be unlikely to, or might not want to follow. I couldn't risk it. I remain on that spiritual quest, and praise God have made terrific progress as He has shown me the light. I refuse to be side tracked by anything or anybody, God willing.

[Gerr]

Gerry,

As I have said, its not about what other people do, it is how I live. Not stretching to extreme, just merely asking a generic question that only each of us can answer for our self. The talk about how women dress or don't dress is a symptom of humans wanting to not be responsible for their own thoughts and actions. That is a basic of the original sin, we are not responsible, God is, for placing us in an impossible situation.

If thine eye offend thee, then pluck it out...in other words..look the other way, don't stop and stare!

ESV | Mt 18:6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

ESV | 1 Co 8:9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.

[LifeHiscost]

"

Not really, man have I taken some heat from friends over the years who cannot grasp WHY in the world I remain single!

If there is any question, better to be miserable on your own than miserable with another. At least when you're on your own, there is no question as to whose at fault. LoL

"But He said to them, Not all men can accept this saying, but it is for those to whom [the capacity to receive] it has been given."Matthew 19:11 AMP

God blesses!

[Gail]

"Ah."

Now what am I supposed to make of that??? Feeling all paranoid and weird now.

Not really, man have I taken some heat from friends over the years who cannot grasp WHY in the world I remain single! The countless times I've been "set up" on surprise blind dates. Hinted at or openly accused of being gay. I've been single for one reason, I've been on a spiritual quest for a decade and was convinced that I was going somewhere a spouse would be unlikely to, or might not want to follow. I couldn't risk it. I remain on that spiritual quest, and praise God have made terrific progress as He has shown me the light. I refuse to be side tracked by anything or anybody, God willing.

By the way, I'll be baptized next month. I also took a lot of heat on that issue for waiting for so long. But I needed to be sure of just what this faith is all about and like Paul said, "Be convinced in my own mind."

Don't feel paranoid or weird! You just might be in a better position to speak on this subject than many of us here.

And good for you for being careful! You sounds like a fine Christian man that many women would be proud and happy to be connected with

Congratulations on your baptism, by the way!

[Woody]

Quote:

By the way, I'll be baptized next month. I also took a lot of heat on that issue for waiting for so long. But I needed to be sure of just what this faith is all about and like Paul said, "Be convinced in my own mind."

Praise God you've decided to accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour. God Bless your decision. Time for celebration.

[cricket]

I just said, "Ah" because now it makes sense as to the reasons why you respond to this topic the way you do.

May God continue to bless you on your journey.

[Dr. Shane]

Shane, since I am a woman I think I probably have more insight on the needs of a woman to feel attractive than you do. It is a strong, driving need. Some women dress modestly not because of the conviction of the Holy Spirit but to merely "attract" the right type of mate.

Of course I have never had the female experience first hand. I have spent 25+ years in 12-Step group meetings listening to both men and women talk about their most intimate struggles with various defects of character. Clearly women have more of a struggle with vanity than men do - as a rule - of course there are exceptions. Now how much of that is because of societal pressure on women to be pretty and how much is actually in their DNA? I think most would agree that man's visual stimulation is part of his DNA. I don't think a woman's desire to be attractive is so clearly part of her genetic makeup.

[cricket]

Intersting that you say that Shane, because I don't believe that visual stimulation for the male species is necessarily part of their DNA. I believe it to be one of those "nurtured" characteristics, more than a "natural" one.

I also think that women are "nurtured" into desiring to fit this mold of "attractiveness" that men have been led to desire.

[Dr. Shane]

The whole thing some of us are objecting to is men attempting to control women. That's not ethically appropriate and doesn't work.

Controlling others is a problem for a lot of us. Isn't it?

I really wouldn't care if the law allowed people to walk around naked, although I think it would probably be pretty gross to see a lot of people out and about in their birthday suits.

Of course, I think there is a difference between admiring beauty and lusting. For me, lusting means coveting not just noticing someone is pretty and has a nice figure.

The big issue for me regarding how women dress is that the way they dress says something about them. They are going to attract certain people to them and repel others by the way they dress. People are going to stereotype them by the way they dress. When my wife and I were first married I bought her all kinds of sexy clothing because I liked seeing her that way. She went to ESL classes (English as a Second Language) and guys were always hitting on her. We bought her a wedding ring and some modest clothing and the guys stopped hitting on her. Her clothing was sending a message. We changed the message.

[Woody]

Quote:

I really wouldn't care if the law allowed people to walk around naked

don't ever claim yourself to be a Republican in good standing.

[shelly]

Shane, the assumption that men are genetically disposed to being visual creatures is currently being questioned. Recient studies on women being visually stimulated show that younger women who have grown up with men being more objectified in the media respond to visual immages more than women did a generation ago. The study seems to suggest that being exposed visusal stimuli increases ones response to it. For how many years have women been objectified? It would make this behavior in men seem genetic when it is actually an enhanced reaction. It seems that the objectification of men in the media is increasing the visual stimulation of women. I believe in a few years that women won't be far behind men when the study is revisited. I know too many women who love the old spice commercials for the shirtless guy. I think that we too are being conditioned to have an increased response to visual stimuli.

[ClubV12]

I've seen similiar studies on that as well Shelly. There seems little doubt that women are moving in the direction of visual stimulation. Historiclly, and still true I think, reading and thought process' have a greater impact on women than visual.

As to the root cause, it makes little difference if it's "DNA", inherited or learned. However, the media has for years been making the process, for women, a learned response. Popular TV shows especially focus on this as it concerns women.

Ellen White speaks, substantially, of inherited tendencies passed from parent to child. Much of that connection, as it pertains to specifics, cannot be sustained by science or medical reasoning. Which only goes to show how advanced the prophets insights are, far ahead of "science" (falsely so called). This I know; If the prophet said it, you can take it to the bank! I don't care what medical science or any other modern "proof" may try to discount it.

Scientists at the time of the flood clearly "prooved" it could not rain! :)

[Gail]

Yes, I just saw a link to an article on FB the other day that talked about the rise in cases of women addicted to porn.

[CoAspen]

Your quotes are for me to guide my life, look at my self, not to make decisions for others. That is what I'm talking about!

[Gerr]

Your quotes are for me to guide my life, look at my self, not to make decisions for others. That is what I'm talking about!

If it applies to you, then it applies to me and others also.

[Dottie]

Here's a link to the sermon preached last Sabbath at the Collegedale Community Church. Some of it may be relevant. The sermon doesn't start until about 10 minutes after the beginning of the recording.

http://www.collegedalecommunity.com/podcasts/298/media_entries/11125

[Dr. Shane]

Yes, I just saw a link to an article on FB the other day that talked about the rise in cases of women addicted to porn.

When I was in college and active in Campus Crusade for Christ (15+ years ago) they did a lot of sexual purity stuff. One statistic I saw at that time was that most porn videos were sold to or rented by couples. Not that long ago, I saw a statistic that said most porn websites are accessed during daytime working hours. That made me think that the porn videos are being used by couples to stimulate their sex lives and the internet is being used by individuals not wanting their spouse to know about their habit.

[aldona]

Quote:

We bought her a wedding ring and some modest clothing and the guys stopped hitting on her. Her clothing was sending a message. We changed the message.

I think the previous lack of a wedding ring was sending a message loud and clear. It would be a brave guy who tries to hit on a woman wearing a wedding ring, revealing clothing or not - he would have no wish to tangle with her husband.

But that is a topic for another thread.

AJ

[bluebelle]

Ladies, you have a sense of modesty that can and should be cultivated. While that little voice may have grown more and more silent over time, it is still there. You KNOW when your appearance, your dress, just doesn't "feel right". You can sense when you are dressing to be "sexy", even a little bit sexy. Listen to that voice, help it grow louder, please. As a man, I need all the help I can get to stay focused on Christ.

Have you ever noticed a speaker with a flashy tie? Or tie clasp? Or a nice watch? Or a woman speaker with some unusual article of clothing that draws the eye? Perhaps a nice lapel pin? Not to mention so immodestly dressed lady speaker! Then you find yourself thinking about that item and not thinking about what the speaker is saying? What if you are witnessing to someone and they find themselves drawn to some piece of your clothing or embellishment? Are they focused on what you are saying or distracted by what you are wearing?

This isn't about flashy ties, tie clips, watches, pins and brooches, cleavage and on and on. It's about being a representative of Jesus. When He dwells in your heart, your dress will reflect it. Your inner beauty will be on display. We should not dress so that we draw attention to ourselves, from either super modest to short short skirt! Nor should we follow every fashion that comes along.

Seek and you find that balance for our day, time, age appropriate, men or women.

So you're pretty much saying that "typical" men are sexually fragile or like infants that notice the pretty shiny thing, therefore women somehow have to contort their sensibility so as not to inflame them? What I wear (or don't) should not have that much power over you. If it does, then a long talk with God to separate you from your impulses might be in order.

[bluebelle]

Originally Posted By: Amelia

Most often mens clothing does nothing for me...

I think most women are either attracted to men with money, which translates into security, OR those that are charming, which translates into caring. Of course, the one translating those things should probably lost his or her job.

Hey, a tall, ruggedly handsome, broad-shouldered man might turn a woman's head as well!

[doug yowell]

So I guess I should toss out the watermelon print pants after all?

[doug yowell]

So you're pretty much saying that "typical" men are sexually fragile or like infants that notice the pretty shiny thing, therefore women somehow have to contort their sensibility so as not to inflame them? What I wear (or don't) should not have that much power over you. If it does, then a long talk with God to separate you from your impulses might be in order.

Or maybe you should file a complaint with Him for making men that way. Apparantly sin hasn't had much effect on female sexuality or thinking.Men are told from childhood to learn to control their weaknesses.Women used to be taught modesty from other women until the past generation. Now it's all just the guy's problem.Were all just sick twisted sexual handicaps that can't control their natures like women can,right? The failure of women to admit the difference in sexual nature is a modern "Am I my brother's keeper?"