miz3 Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Regardless of what the True solution is one thing we do know is that the year/day junk does not apply because the year/day junk does not exist as a time principle! So whatever your solution it must NOT USE THE YEAR/DAY JUNK! Quote
Truth Files Posted July 25, 2011 Author Posted July 25, 2011 Do you know how long it was from the release of the Jews in the Babylonian captivity in 445 BC to the first coming of the Lord? I would suggest that you find out because Daniel was given the vision that projects this very thing with 100% accuracy Your rebuttal against his vision is a major mistake on you part because the Lord's arrival fulfilled the vision on schedule [Daniel 9:25-27] It is a known historical fact that the decree given to Nehemiah to return to build the city of Jerusalem was given in 445 BC [research this historical fact] [in 445 BC Artaxerxes decreed the return to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem, thus beginning Daniel's seventy weeks of years [490 prophetic years][Daniel 9:24; Nehemiah 2]]. Prophetical years are of 360 days each whether you believe this or not .... the proof is given in scripture and you need to find it The time lapse from 445 BC to 33 A.D. [the Lord's cutting off] can be calculated by making adjustments to the Julian calendar and this time lapse is equal to 483 prophetic years .... the other 7 of the 490 years is still pending and has not yet begun Your refusal to investigate this biblical truth is your loss .... and this limits your understanding of scriptural truth You will never be able to stand against the false teaching of historical/allegorical preterism without rendering the 70 weeks of years correctly You do have some good insight by your postings as I review them, but this one puts you at a disadvantage by discarding it I am curious, who has influenced your position on the 70 weeks of years? .... most knowledgeable fundamental literal interpreters understand it Quote Stephen - Author - Truth Files
ClubV12 Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Well,,, at least TF is within a few years of being correct, not to mention cutting off 7 years in error. Still, he's a lot closer than miz3, who has yet to take a solid position on the subject. As for the SDA church official position (and my own studied analysis), it's 457 to 34 AD. Quote
Lysimachus Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 It's so sad that we must say that Truth Files is closer to the truth than miz3. Miz3 is wondering about out to sea without chart or compass, and has nothing defined in his theology. Everything is mysterious and speculative, and nothing in solid stone. Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Lysimachus Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 As for the SDA church official position (and my own studied analysis), it's 457 to 34 AD. Tell it like it is. I've posed our exegetical mathmatical and Biblical papers to some of the most staunch Dispensational authors, and they have not been able to successfully refute the 457. Some of them got angry and quit replying to me. Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Do you know how long it was from the release of the Jews in the Babylonian captivity in 445 BC to the first coming of the Lord? I would suggest that you find out because Daniel was given the vision that projects this very thing with 100% accuracy Your rebuttal against his vision is a major mistake on you part because the Lord's arrival fulfilled the vision on schedule [Daniel 9:25-27] It is a known historical fact that the decree given to Nehemiah to return to build the city of Jerusalem was given in 445 BC [research this historical fact] [in 445 BC Artaxerxes decreed the return to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem, thus beginning Daniel's seventy weeks of years [490 prophetic years][Daniel 9:24; Nehemiah 2]]. Prophetical years are of 360 days each whether you believe this or not .... the proof is given in scripture and you need to find it The time lapse from 445 BC to 33 A.D. [the Lord's cutting off] can be calculated by making adjustments to the Julian calendar and this time lapse is equal to 483 prophetic years .... the other 7 of the 490 years is still pending and has not yet begun Your refusal to investigate this biblical truth is your loss .... and this limits your understanding of scriptural truth You will never be able to stand against the false teaching of historical/allegorical preterism without rendering the 70 weeks of years correctly You do have some good insight by your postings as I review them, but this one puts you at a disadvantage by discarding it I am curious, who has influenced your position on the 70 weeks of years? .... most knowledgeable fundamental literal interpreters understand it I am not disputing known historical fact! I am however disputing your method of manipulating the Scripture so that it says what you want and not what the Scripture actually says. The major flaw in your fantasy assertion is the year/day junk! There is no year/day as I have already conclusively proved. You and Lysimachus and whoever others can believe anything you wish. You can even use complex and contorted methods. However that does make the Scripture say what it clearly does not say! When the dust finally settles, we find this one saying the "prophecy says this" while others "say it is not this it is that". You people cannot even agree as to which date the prophecy begins! You cannot agree as to what the prophecy is about since the mid 19th century! In fact you all point to so many different ways of historically looking at this that it is mind boggling. All your theories are so vastly complex and contorted using this calendar and that calendar. This adjustment and that adjustment. Such complexities cannot be from the Lord! It is certainly NOT THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST! The fact that we do not know what actually in the local arena of the "four kingdoms" was applicable to Daniel chapter nine does not mean we go around INVENTING MYTHS. I don't care if those MYTHS after all your complex hocus pocus and adjustments for this and that "seem to add up" or come close! It still remains that the Bible does not support your junk! Just admit you cannot answer all the questions! That is an honorable position when that is exactly the Truth of the matter! Now if you say "I have a conjecture but I cannot prove it and my conjecture has holes that I cannot explain" that is also fine. But don't go around the world and tell everyone that you can prove it, because I have clearly shown that your "theories, conjectures" are full of hot air"! Why? NO YEAR/DAY! Quote
miz3 Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 If this "hocus pocus doctrine" is so vital a truth, why didn't Jesus Christ teach it! Why didn't the Disciples teach it? Why doesn't the Apostle Paul teach it? Why doesn't Revelation teach it? None of these New Testament entities teach or even refer to Daniel or his prophecies. There is only ONE PLACE IN THE ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT THAT EVEN MENTIONS DANIEL'S NAME AND ONE THING DANIEL SAID! Just were is that reference: Matthew 24:15! Thus your vital precious hocus pocus doctrine goes "gurgle, gurgle" down the drain! Quote
Lysimachus Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 How does it feel like miz3 to be floating in your own little camp? Never able to pick a side with anyone? Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Tell me Lysimachus, why doesn't Jesus Christ or the New Testament support your position? Quote
Lysimachus Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 I am not alone! God is with me! The Bible predicts when there will be 144,000, and more. Paul also speaks about how God's people will all "speak the same thing". Let me know when you find that "other person" who agrees with you 100%. As far as I can see, you have been in your own little boat for a very long time. And you seem determined to not yield and submit to anyone else's Biblical study. Your own preconceived opinions in how you interpret passages is your idol. Your god. Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Lysimachus Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Tell me Lysimachus, why doesn't Jesus Christ or the New Testament support your position? Tell me how Jesus or the New Testament doesn't support my position. Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 Tell me Lysimachus, why doesn't Jesus Christ or the New Testament support your position? Tell me how Jesus or the New Testament doesn't support my position. Your the one trying to prove something! So you tell me how the New Testament supports your view of Daniel! Like I told you there is nothing in the New Testament at all about Daniel, except for Matthew 24:15! And that passage is hardly support for all your gobbledy gook! Quote
miz3 Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Lysimachus, I thought you would have a snappy answer all ready for me! I see you don't! Let me ask you some more, why does Jesus Christ not use "your seventy week prophesy as proof that He was the Messiah". All Jesus Christ had to do was refer to the writings of Daniel chapter nine and say "this text is talking about me". Unfortunately for you Jesus Christ does not do this, does He? You would think that such a "vital, necessary prophecy would elicit at least one reference from Jesus Christ. NO! There is not even "one" reference of any kind to this prophecy to support that the words of Daniel were talking about the "Messiah"! or the Anointed One! Could it be that you are wrong about this hocus pocus prophecy of yours! Also why doesn't Jesus Christ state that this vital prophecy of the "2300 days" is referring to 1844? Why does the New Testament not even mention the "2300 days" at all since this is such a vital prophecy? Seems strange that the New Testament is sooooooo silent! Quote
Truth Files Posted July 25, 2011 Author Posted July 25, 2011 "I am not disputing known historical fact! I am however disputing your method of manipulating the Scripture so that it says what you want and not what the Scripture actually says" >The information I gave has no manipulations .... all factual .... biblical and historical >And I will answer your question to Lysimachus >Jesus is the very one who is the author of all biblical prophecy .... all of it >Do you not know that He has existed since the beginning of creation and that He is the one who has inspired the Bible prophets to record His prophecies .... He is the Spirit of prophecy ..... to say that Jesus does not support His own visions of the Bible prophets or His same Word recorded in the N.T. makes no sense >Here is what I would suggest that you do ..... revisit the visions of the Bible prophets with this in mind .... and you will be able to learn a profound truth [2Peter 1:16-21; Revelation 5:5; 19:10] .... He is the inspiration of all prophecy of the O.T. and the N.T Quote Stephen - Author - Truth Files
miz3 Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 "I am not disputing known historical fact! I am however disputing your method of manipulating the Scripture so that it says what you want and not what the Scripture actually says" >The information I gave has no manipulations .... all factual .... biblical and historical >And I will answer your question to Lysimachus >Jesus is the very one who is the author of all biblical prophecy .... all of it >Do you not know that He has existed since the beginning of creation and that He is the one who has inspired the Bible prophets to record His prophecies .... He is the Spirit of prophecy ..... to say that Jesus does not support His own visions of the Bible prophets or His same Word recorded in the N.T. makes no sense >Here is what I would suggest that you do ..... revisit the visions of the Bible prophets with this in mind .... and you will be able to learn a profound truth [2Peter 1:16-21; Revelation 5:5; 19:10] .... He is the inspiration of all prophecy of the O.T. and the N.T You misunderstand! What I am saying is Jesus Christ while on earth during the period of the Gospels said nothing about Daniel's prophecies except in Matthew 24:15. Christ had many opportunities to validate the seventy week prophecy as applying to Him but Jesus Christ did no such thing. Jesus Christ used other Old Testament Scripture to show that He was the Messiah but He never used Daniel at all, let alone Daniel chapter nine. Thus, if the seventy week prophecy was referring to Jesus Christ it would have been perfect for Jesus Christ to cite it as proof of who He was! Jesus referenced other OT Scripture as proof of who He was but never referenced Daniel! Quote
ClubV12 Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 "But godliness with contentment is great gain." 1 Timothy 6:6 May you find true peace and love in your theology miz3, God bless. Quote
Truth Files Posted July 25, 2011 Author Posted July 25, 2011 Miz3, You are missing the truth of this matter by not understading who Jesus Christ is .... He is the Author of all Bible prophecy .... all of it comes from Him .... the O.T. prophets just recorded what He gave them .... He is the Lord who speaks in the visions The only way for you to understand the prophetic visions in His Word requires that you take them all including what the Lord adds in His discourse regarding the time of the end in Matthew 24 together .... all must be inclusive to get the complete and comprehensive picture .... and I will tell you this: His focus in Matthew 24 is about a returned remnant part of His nation of Israel [not the church] .... read the descriptions and location carefully He is projecting long as He answers the questions about the time of the end .... a time still pending today .... and it is all about the 70th week decreed for Israel during His coming time of trial and judgment upon the earth 70 A.D. was not the time of the end as some think Quote Stephen - Author - Truth Files
Lysimachus Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Miz3, what is it in this thread you want me to answer? I don't see anything I haven't addressed. I could list you dozens of arguments I have raised that you have ignored, and could very well accuse you of "running away" from them, so how dare you have the audacity to blame me from running away from your "questions" (questions I haven't even seen), when you yourself ignored about 90% of my dissertations on the 70 weeks much earlier in this thread. Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Miz3, You are missing the truth of this matter by not understading who Jesus Christ is .... He is the Author of all Bible prophecy .... all of it comes from Him .... the O.T. prophets just recorded what He gave them .... He is the Lord who speaks in the visions The only way for you to understand the prophetic visions in His Word requires that you take them all including what the Lord adds in His discourse regarding the time of the end in Matthew 24 together .... all must be inclusive to get the complete and comprehensive picture .... and I will tell you this: His focus in Matthew 24 is about a returned remnant part of His nation of Israel [not the church] .... read the descriptions and location carefully He is projecting long as He answers the questions about the time of the end .... a time still pending today .... and it is all about the 70th week decreed for Israel during His coming time of trial and judgment upon the earth 70 A.D. was not the time of the end as some think 1. 70 AD was the end as far as the Children of Israel (Nation) was concerned! 2. I am not disputing who the Author of Daniel or any of the Scriptures is! You are trying to hammer a nail that is not there! I agree that God (Jesus Christ) is the Author of ALL SCRIPTURE! 3. Here is a prophecy: "Then the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tishbite: 18 “Go down to meet Ahab king of Israel, who rules in Samaria. He is now in Naboth’s vineyard, where he has gone to take possession of it. 19 Say to him, ‘This is what the LORD says: Have you not murdered a man and seized his property?’ Then say to him, ‘This is what the LORD says: In the place where dogs licked up Naboth’s blood, dogs will lick up your blood—yes, yours!’" 1Kings 21:17-19. God was the Author of this prophecy. Tell me how this prophecy ties into your grand scheme of the seventy weeks? 4. Here is another prophecy: "After Ahab’s death, Moab rebelled against Israel. 2 Now Ahaziah had fallen through the lattice of his upper room in Samaria and injured himself. So he sent messengers, saying to them, “Go and consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron, to see if I will recover from this injury.” 3 But the angel of the LORD said to Elijah the Tishbite, “Go up and meet the messengers of the king of Samaria and ask them, ‘Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are going off to consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron?’ 4 Therefore this is what the LORD says: ‘You will not leave the bed you are lying on. You will certainly die!’” So Elijah went. 5 When the messengers returned to the king, he asked them, “Why have you come back?” 6 “A man came to meet us,” they replied. “And he said to us, ‘Go back to the king who sent you and tell him, “This is what the LORD says: Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are sending men to consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron? Therefore you will not leave the bed you are lying on. You will certainly die!”’” 7 The king asked them, “What kind of man was it who came to meet you and told you this?” 8 They replied, “He was a man with a garment of hair and with a leather belt around his waist.” The king said, “That was Elijah the Tishbite." 2Kings 1:1-8. Tell me please, how this prophecy ties into the seventy weeks? Quote
miz3 Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Miz3, what is it in this thread you want me to answer? I don't see anything I haven't addressed. I could list you dozens of arguments I have raised that you have ignored, and could very well accuse you of "running away" from them, so how dare you have the audacity to blame me from running away from your "questions" (questions I haven't even seen), when you yourself ignored about 90% of my dissertations on the 70 weeks much earlier in this thread. What you say is NOT TRUE! You cannot substantiate such a charge. However, I will repeat the questions for your benefit! Now don't run away while I get the questions! Quote
miz3 Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 If this "hocus pocus doctrine" is so vital a truth, why didn't Jesus Christ teach it! Why didn't the Disciples teach it? Why doesn't the Apostle Paul teach it? Why doesn't Revelation teach it? None of these New Testament entities teach or even refer to Daniel or his prophecies. There is only ONE PLACE IN THE ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT THAT EVEN MENTIONS DANIEL'S NAME AND ONE THING DANIEL SAID! Just were is that reference: Matthew 24:15! Thus your vital precious hocus pocus doctrine goes "gurgle, gurgle" down the drain! Respond to this for starters! Quote
miz3 Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 I am not alone! God is with me! Originally Posted By: Lysimachus The Bible predicts when there will be 144,000, and more. Paul also speaks about how God's people will all "speak the same thing". Let me know when you find that "other person" who agrees with you 100%. As far as I can see, you have been in your own little boat for a very long time. And you seem determined to not yield and submit to anyone else's Biblical study. Your own preconceived opinions in how you interpret passages is your idol. Your god. I am letting you know right now that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit agree with me! OH! Paul and I also speak the same Gospel! Paul never preached what you are preaching "in your fantasy prophesy"! I asked you already why the New Testament never speaks about what you are asserting in your phony prophecies? The New Testament never speaks of the year/day junk you are peddling! I wonder why? Then you can deal with this! Stop avoiding the issue! Quote
miz3 Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Lysimachus, I thought you would have a snappy answer all ready for me! I see you don't! Let me ask you some more, why does Jesus Christ not use "your seventy week prophesy as proof that He was the Messiah". All Jesus Christ had to do was refer to the writings of Daniel chapter nine and say "this text is talking about me". Unfortunately for you Jesus Christ does not do this, does He? You would think that such a "vital, necessary prophecy would elicit at least one reference from Jesus Christ. NO! There is not even "one" reference of any kind to this prophecy to support that the words of Daniel were talking about the "Messiah"! or the Anointed One! Could it be that you are wrong about this hocus pocus prophecy of yours! Also why doesn't Jesus Christ state that this vital prophecy of the "2300 days" is referring to 1844? Why does the New Testament not even mention the "2300 days" at all since this is such a vital prophecy? Seems strange that the New Testament is sooooooo silent! Then you can deal with this! Quote
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