70 x 7

[Lysimachus]

What you say is NOT TRUE! You cannot substantiate such a charge. However, I will repeat the questions for your benefit!

Now don't run away while I get the questions!

You are impossible to work with miz3.

[miz3]

Your turn Lysimachus!

[Lysimachus]

If this "hocus pocus doctrine" is so vital a truth, why didn't Jesus Christ teach it! Why didn't the Disciples teach it? Why doesn't the Apostle Paul teach it? Why doesn't Revelation teach it?

[Lysimachus]

I am not alone! God is with me!

[Lysimachus]

Let me ask you some more, why does Jesus Christ not use "your seventy week prophesy as proof that He was the Messiah". All Jesus Christ had to do was refer to the writings of Daniel chapter nine and say "this text is talking about me".

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

Let me ask you some more, why does Jesus Christ not use "your seventy week prophesy as proof that He was the Messiah". All Jesus Christ had to do was refer to the writings of Daniel chapter nine and say "this text is talking about me".

He did allude to the 70 weeks prophecy in Matthew 18:22. The 70 weeks prophecy is a pivotal prophecy in helping us prove the identity of Jesus Christ, and so that we know Jesus came ON TIME!

He said: "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand." (Mark 1:15). Which "time" was Christ referring to? He was referring to the 69 weeks mentioned in Daniel 9:25. It was at the end of this 69 weeks that Christ began His ministry to "make strong the covenant with many for one week" (Daniel 9:27) (See also Matt. 26:28; Mk. 14:24)

Jesus also tells us to study the Scriptures, and so does Paul. Which scriptures did Paul and the apostles study? It can't be the New Testament, as they were living out the New Testament, but the Scriptures they studied was the Old Testament that lead them to their New Testament experience.

Quote:

Unfortunately for you Jesus Christ does not do this, does He?

You would think that such a "vital, necessary prophecy would elicit at least one reference from Jesus Christ. NO! There is not even "one" reference of any kind to this prophecy to support that the words of Daniel were talking about the "Messiah"! or the Anointed One!

Once again, you sound like a parrot who squawks out words but doesn't know what he's saying.

With this ridiculous, absurd reasoning, you could also ask: "Why didn't Paul refer to the "great tribulation" that Jesus talked about? If what Jesus said was so important, why didn't Paul remind the Church of Jesus' words concerning the "great tribulation"? Why didn't Paul repeat about the sun going dark, the moon going dark, and the stars falling, and all the earthquakes?

Do you see how RIDICULOUS your reasoning is? COME ON! SNAP OUT OF IT MIZ3! You are WASTING my PRECIOUS TIME, and I will not keep up with this foolish garbage.

Quote:

Could it be that you are wrong about this hocus pocus prophecy of yours!

Not a chance. I'm positive it is you who is wrong on this, as you are the only one who subscribes to your own imaginary and idiotic philosophy. And I can say this with certainty, especially after you revealed what you think about the Old Testament scriptures: "they are not important for us to understand". Thank you for sharing me your true colors. Now I know what kind of serious person you are about God's Word.

Quote:

Also why doesn't Jesus Christ state that this vital prophecy of the "2300 days" is referring to 1844? Why does the New Testament not even mention the "2300 days" at all since this is such a vital prophecy?

In other words, because Jesus doesn't mention it, it isn't important.

I argue the following:

1. Jesus does not need to repeat something he's already stated in the Old Testament in order for it to be important.

2. Every word in the Bible, from beginning to end, is Jesus talking.

Quote:

Seems strange that the New Testament is sooooooo silent!

I know. It seems so strange that the New Testament does not refer to beastieality or other marital/divorce issues which only Leviticus addresses. But since the New Testament does not elaborate upon these subjects, they must not be important.

Your case is looking more hopeless and miserable every day. You've made a tragic shipwreck of your mishandling of God's Word.

Closing thoughts:

From now on miz3, I am DONE dealing with you. And no, it is not because I "can't" answer your questions, or because I am "ignoring" what you are saying. It is because I do not believe it is right to try and beat a dead horse. I've argued enough to know that you are set in your ways. If you try and convince yourself that the reason I am not responding is because I can't deal with your arguments, then be my guest in wallowing in your prized deception. You've wasted many of precious hours that I could have used to help hungry souls, and I have also set back in my business and sales because of you. From the amount of posts you have made, I can only imagine how much time you have wasted on others. You will be held accountable in the day of judgment for the time you caused people to waste on you because of your perfidious stubbornness, and unteachable spirit.

From now on you can rattle on and on in circles in your little girbil wheel, but I will not bat an eye.

I have already broken the commandment that says to rebuke him twice, and leave him alone.

"Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned." (Titus 3:10,11)

For me to continue arguing with you miz3, would be sin.

First of all one has to say that your response in a word is:

WEAK!

Second, Jesus Christ used other OT texts to prove He was the Messiah, what you fail to understand is why does Christ not use what would be a big clincher is Daniel and the "seventy weeks"?

The answer you refuse to see is that Christ did not use Daniel in this way because the "seventy weeks" did not make direct reference to Christ!

[Truth Files]

"The answer you refuse to see is that Christ did not use Daniel in this way because the "seventy weeks" did not make direct reference to Christ!"

Who is the Messiah in this passage of scripture?

Daniel

9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Is it that you just don't know much .... or are you playing fast and loose with the Lord's Word?

[miz3]

"The answer you refuse to see is that Christ did not use Daniel in this way because the "seventy weeks" did not make direct reference to Christ!"

Who is the Messiah in this passage of scripture?

Daniel

9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Is it that you just don't know much .... or are you playing fast and loose with the Lord's Word?

Here is another quote of this very passage!

"Seventy ‘sevens’[c] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[d] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.[e]

25 “Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree[f] to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[g] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.[h] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’[j] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

Daniel 9:24-27.

Notice that it says "anointed one". Could this be someone "anointed one" other than Jesus Christ?

YES!

Could it be an "anointed one" who was part of those who returned to rebuild Jerusalem?

YES!

Knowing this your big brain can now figure out who this could be!

[Truth Files]

"Could it be an "anointed one" who was part of those who returned to rebuild Jerusalem?"

No way .... it is the Lord Himself for sure [Daniel 9:25-26]

There are two princes in contrast in this passage of scripture .... not just one

..... the Prince cut off [Jesus] .... and the other prince that shall come [satan's beast in the little horn]

The "other prince" in prophetic scripture is Satan's beast in the little horn [that some call the "anti-christ"]..... and the appearance of this prince is still pending [2Thessalonians 2:2-12]

Explain to me why a prince other than Jesus could, or would, confirm the covenant that the Lord has with a believing remnant part of Israel [the "many"] [Jeremiah 31:31-37] to accomplish these things during the coming 70th week [one 7] [Daniel 9:24]

Now I see why you are so far off course

Who sold you this bag of wind that the Messiah Prince "cut off" in 33 A.D. was not Jesus?

I think I know, but tell me

[miz3]

Your flaw remains NO YEAR/DAY!

Until you overcome that hurdle anything you assert is useless!

[ClubV12]

Well this is revealing, miz3 is making truth files, who has some bizarre theology, look down right reasonable.

...still, it's thin limb either are hanging on...

[miz3]

We should all be happy where we are!

[Lysimachus]

Well this is revealing, miz3 is making truth files, who has some bizarre theology, look down right reasonable.

...still, it's thin limb either are hanging on...

LOL, I hear you! It's such a conundrum I never thought I'd be siding for Truth Files

[Kevin H]

Miz3: Jesus did not need to quote the 70 weeks of years prophecy because, according to professors at Hebrew University in Israel, it was widely known that they were in the 70th week of years from Daniel and that there were many people claiming to be the messiah because of living in the 70th week.

Also, you say no year-day principle. Yet Hebrew Univesity uses it, the University of Chicago uses it (see Henri Frankfort and others "Before Philosophy" University of Chicago Press 1946). Why are they using what does not exist according to you???

[miz3]

Miz3: Jesus did not need to quote the 70 weeks of years prophecy because, according to professors at Hebrew University in Israel, it was widely known that they were in the 70th week of years from Daniel and that there were many people claiming to be the messiah because of living in the 70th week.

Also, you say no year-day principle. Yet Hebrew Univesity uses it, the University of Chicago uses it (see Henri Frankfort and others "Before Philosophy" University of Chicago Press 1946). Why are they using what does not exist according to you???

So these are your Authorities! Let's see:

1. These people are not "Inspired" and so they don't know anything more than the rest of us are capable of! I don't think SDA would these "pagan" sources since they don't agree with SDA on 1844, the Sabbath, the Sanctuary, etc. etc.

I don't think I will recognize them as true Authorities either!

2. Since these "pagan" Authorities of yours espouse the year/day I feel much more secure in the fact that I am right that the year/day does not exist!

3. I also believe the Hebrew University (Jews) Official position is that the "MESSIAH" has not even come yet!

SO MUCH FOR YOUR AUTHORITIES AND THEIR BEING RIGHT!

Kevin H. you need to hang around with a better class of people in regard to Scriptural Interpretation!

[miz3]

Hey Lysimachus,

Have you read Daniel chapter eleven.

The Chapter starts out at the death of Alexander the Great. It talks about what happens during the break up of the Grecian Empire. It even includes a reference to Antiochus Epiphanes, as well as Anthony and Cleopatra!

I see no thousands of years in this chapter of the Bible! Sounds "LOCAL" Prophecy to me and how these events would affect Daniel's people the Jews!

You see that is all Daniel was interested in and that is what God gave him!

[Truth Files]

"Anthony and Cleopatra"

>Not there [ancient Rome is not in this vision]

>Daniel's vision ends with Antiochus IV [11:21-35]

[This is not only a biblical fact, but one historical record]

>The next king of the north is the little horn at the time appointed .... the time of the end of this present age [Daniel 11:36-45; 12:7]

[Truth Files]

Miz3 says:

"Your flaw remains NO YEAR/DAY!

Until you overcome that hurdle anything you assert is useless!"

>I do not believe in the "year for a Day" theory

>Answer my questions:

>Who is the Messiah in this passage of scripture? .... you say some other "anointed" one .... who would this be?

Daniel

9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

>And explain to me why a prince other than Jesus could, or would, confirm the covenant that the Lord has with a believing remnant part of Israel [the "many"] [Jeremiah 31:31-37] to accomplish these things during the coming 70th week [one 7] [Daniel 9:24]

>If you are unwilling to answer, or cannot do so .... then I am suspicious of just what you are up to

[hch]

Originally Posted By: hch

How can you believe the jesuit doctrine that the year/ day principle is a hoax when your own beliefs say that the 70 weeks (490 days ) are 490 year? Thats a day for a year isnt it?

The hebrew in that verse does not contain the word years. It literally says '70 weeks' it does not say weeks of years.

my only concern about your post is that the way it came through m

Originally Posted By: miz3

Like I said you lose on the year/day hoax!

in your post it looks like I said the thing that I was reproving.

[hch]

I used to believe that the "Daily" was Paganism, and so did my father. I have given it up, and so has he. That was ever since I read Heidi Heiks masterpiece work that completely demolishing all our "sound" arguments entitled The "Daily" Source Book. Nothing under the heavens comes close to the irrefutable research gone into the subject of the Daily.

I used to believe that the 1260, 1290 and 1335 will be future. And so did my father.

Within recent months, I have been forced to give up the "dogmatic" notion that Ellen White's statements concerning "repetition of prophecy" necessarily means a repetition of the "time-lines", rather, a repetition of the elements that happened IN those past time lines. It is understanding the nature of that repetition that is vital, not that the prophecy itself repeats, but the elements of the prophecy repeat. I still believe it is possible that the 1260, 1290, and 1335 may repeat, but if they do repeat, I doubt we'll know when they started until the day of the Second Advent, and we can look back in retrospect.

Just like the Protestants and Pioneers were not able to see the starting date of the 1260 and 1290 and 1335 until AFTER the end-dates transpired, so likewise God's people will not see the beginning dates of these numbers until the Second Coming if they happen to repeat.

It was after reading these books from Heidi Heiks, that I have been forced, based on Biblical and historical grounds, to give up a lot of my dogmatic positions, and stand firm on the historical positions.

I recommend every serious Adventist student to read these books: 508, 538, 1798/1843, and the "Daily" Source Books.

[hch]

If this "hocus pocus doctrine" is so vital a truth, why didn't Jesus Christ teach it! Why didn't the Disciples teach it? Why doesn't the Apostle Paul teach it? Why doesn't Revelation teach it?

None of these New Testament entities teach or even refer to Daniel or his prophecies.

There is only ONE PLACE IN THE ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT THAT EVEN MENTIONS DANIEL'S NAME AND ONE THING DANIEL SAID!

Just were is that reference:

Matthew 24:15!

Thus your vital precious hocus pocus doctrine goes "gurgle, gurgle" down the drain!

Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

True, But let's not forget That Christ mentioned Daniel in a future tense in Mark as well:

Mr 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

[Kevin H]

John Wood McCall, Jim Fleming, Abraham Joshua Heshel, William Foxwell Albright, William Shea, Nelson Glick, John Bright, Yohanan Aharoni, Lynn Harper Wood, Edwin Theile, Sigrid Horn, Yigael Yadin, Lawrence Gerity etc. have been a group that I enjoy hanging around.

[Lysimachus]

John Wood McCall, Jim Fleming, Abraham Joshua Heshel, William Foxwell Albright, William Shea, Nelson Glick, John Bright, Yohanan Aharoni, Lynn Harper Wood, Edwin Theile, Sigrid Horn, Yigael Yadin, Lawrence Gerity etc. have been a group that I enjoy hanging around.

I'm jealous. How in the world do you know how to meet up with these guys? They never advertise what church they go to, lol.

[hch]

Here is another quote of this very passage!

"Seventy ‘sevens’[c] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[d] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.[e]

25 “Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree[f] to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[g] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.[h] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’[j] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

Daniel 9:24-27.

Notice that it says "anointed one". Could this be someone "anointed one" other than Jesus Christ?

YES!

Could it be an "anointed one" who was part of those who returned to rebuild Jerusalem?

YES!

That is a great observation.

in the first application when the nonexistent day for a year principle is applied, the prophecy aligns perfectly with Jesus being anointed as the Messiah/Prince of the HOLY Covenant.

In the endtime, it aligns with the anointing of the Apostate Protestant prince of the covenant (the counterfeit) that did away with the Covenant. That was fulfilled in 2001.

When the prophecy repeated at its final fulfillment, the time was literal days and the decree to rebuild Jerusalem was not focused on "Jerusalem" but the meaning that it conveys "Teaching of Peace."

Because of the "attitude" that I have observed on this thread, I stop with that comment. If you want to get the whole story send me a PM loudcry.2007@gmail.com My auto responder is on.

[hch]

"Could it be an "anointed one" who was part of those who returned to rebuild Jerusalem?"

No way .... it is the Lord Himself for sure [Daniel 9:25-26]

There are two princes in contrast in this passage of scripture .... not just one

..... the Prince cut off [Jesus] .... and the other prince that shall come [satan's beast in the little horn]

The "other prince" in prophetic scripture is Satan's beast in the little horn [that some call the "anti-christ"]..... and the appearance of this prince is still pending [2Thessalonians 2:2-12]

Explain to me why a prince other than Jesus could, or would, confirm the covenant that the Lord has with a believing remnant part of Israel [the "many"] [Jeremiah 31:31-37] to accomplish these things during the coming 70th week [one 7] [Daniel 9:24]

Now I see why you are so far off course

Who sold you this bag of wind that the Messiah Prince "cut off" in 33 A.D. was not Jesus?

I think I know, but tell me

Truth is truth. The devil is devoid of it, but he tries to package his lie to appear to be truth.

Thus with the True Church there are other churches that look like they are true. But when error is mixed with truth, those that cling to the error will not appreciate the truth for what it is.

Remember the story in Acts 16:16 ¶ And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

An example: This counterfeit spirit was rebuked. The devil proclaimed truth through this agent so that the demons could turn the people from the truth to their agent.

Likewise the endtime prince of the covenant, nullified the true covenant and established another in its place that is an abomination unto God that brings destruction to those that believe the lie.

loudcry.2007@gmail.com