70 x 7

[hch]

Hey Lysimachus,

Have you read Daniel chapter eleven.

The Chapter starts out at the death of Alexander the Great. It talks about what happens during the break up of the Grecian Empire. It even includes a reference to Antiochus Epiphanes, as well as Anthony and Cleopatra!

I see no thousands of years in this chapter of the Bible! Sounds "LOCAL" Prophecy to me and how these events would affect Daniel's people the Jews!

You see that is all Daniel was interested in and that is what God gave him!

miz3,

If you understood how Daniel 11 begins with the 3 kings in Persia (those that issued the decrees to rebuild and restore) and how the 4th king of Persia was not consecutive but the prophecy jumped from the third king in 457 BC to the last king of Persia and then it outlines specific events until Christ stands in 1844 (Daniel 12:1), you would be on the right track with the 2300-years spelled out for you.

Then if you understood the link between Revelation 10 and the command to "prophesy again" that was directed to the prophecy of Daniel (the little book of prophecy) then you might be able to go back to Daniel 11:6 and pick up the prophecy again.

Christ stood for His people in 1844 at the time of the end, but that was not the primary meaning of Daniel 12:1. And when the prophecy repeats Daniel 12:1 loops back to 11:6 "And in the end of years they shall ..." that is after 1844.

Then if you spent years in study, you might follow Daniel 11 from verse six through history to verses 41-43 where we are now. It took me allot of prayer and Bible study and then almost nobody was interested. But through it all you can develop a closer relationship with the Lord. That alone makes it worthwhile.

But if you hold to an intransigent position, you won't progress from point A to point B, never mind going beyond the basics to the meat of the matter.

There is so much that I could write, but truth is progressive. It builds on the past and it goes froward. So if we get stuck along the way, we have to get over that bump before we can move on to the next issue.

loudcry.2007@gmail.com

[Guest]

The return of Christ in the Second Coming is NOT COVERED IN THE BOOK OF DANIEL!

You saw till a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image upon its feet that were of iron and clay, and broke them to pieces. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that no place was found for them: and the stone that struck the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. Dan 2:34,35

What do you think this is referring to? And since you believe that everything in the book of Daniel has already happened, point to the event in the history books that you think this prophecy is talking about? What has struck the nations, (the image) became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth?

Something that big should be easy to point to.

Also, what do you think the stone cut out without hands is?

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

If this "hocus pocus doctrine" is so vital a truth, why didn't Jesus Christ teach it! Why didn't the Disciples teach it? Why doesn't the Apostle Paul teach it? Why doesn't Revelation teach it?

None of these New Testament entities teach or even refer to Daniel or his prophecies.

There is only ONE PLACE IN THE ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT THAT EVEN MENTIONS DANIEL'S NAME AND ONE THING DANIEL SAID!

Just were is that reference:

Matthew 24:15!

Thus your vital precious hocus pocus doctrine goes "gurgle, gurgle" down the drain!

Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

True, But let's not forget That Christ mentioned Daniel in a future tense in Mark as well:

Mr 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

That has already happened before the demise of the Roman Empire!

NO THOUSANDS OF YEARS LATER! NO 1844!

[miz3]

John Wood McCall, Jim Fleming, Abraham Joshua Heshel, William Foxwell Albright, William Shea, Nelson Glick, John Bright, Yohanan Aharoni, Lynn Harper Wood, Edwin Theile, Sigrid Horn, Yigael Yadin, Lawrence Gerity etc. have been a group that I enjoy hanging around.

So!

Are these "angels" or are they "inspired prophets"?

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

Hey Lysimachus,

Have you read Daniel chapter eleven.

The Chapter starts out at the death of Alexander the Great. It talks about what happens during the break up of the Grecian Empire. It even includes a reference to Antiochus Epiphanes, as well as Anthony and Cleopatra!

I see no thousands of years in this chapter of the Bible! Sounds "LOCAL" Prophecy to me and how these events would affect Daniel's people the Jews!

You see that is all Daniel was interested in and that is what God gave him!

miz3,

If you understood how Daniel 11 begins with the 3 kings in Persia (those that issued the decrees to rebuild and restore) and how the 4th king of Persia was not consecutive but the prophecy jumped from the third king in 457 BC to the last king of Persia and then it outlines specific events until Christ stands in 1844 (Daniel 12:1), you would be on the right track with the 2300-years spelled out for you.

Then if you understood the link between Revelation 10 and the command to "prophesy again" that was directed to the prophecy of Daniel (the little book of prophecy) then you might be able to go back to Daniel 11:6 and pick up the prophecy again.

Christ stood for His people in 1844 at the time of the end, but that was not the primary meaning of Daniel 12:1. And when the prophecy repeats Daniel 12:1 loops back to 11:6 "And in the end of years they shall ..." that is after 1844.

Then if you spent years in study, you might follow Daniel 11 from verse six through history to verses 41-43 where we are now. It took me allot of prayer and Bible study and then almost nobody was interested. But through it all you can develop a closer relationship with the Lord. That alone makes it worthwhile.

But if you hold to an intransigent position, you won't progress from point A to point B, never mind going beyond the basics to the meat of the matter.

There is so much that I could write, but truth is progressive. It builds on the past and it goes froward. So if we get stuck along the way, we have to get over that bump before we can move on to the next issue.

loudcry.2007@gmail.com

This is just hocus pocus theology!

It is clear that you come with an agenda to the Scriptures and then you try and manipulate the Scriptures from as many points as possible into a complex, contorted, mishmash of misapplication, etc. etc. until it seems to you to fit!

You cannot come to the Bible with preconceived notions and then try and build your theology house on that foundation. Such foundations are only wet sand and get washed out to sea eventually!

Truth is built on God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit!

I will quote again to you what the Bible says is the correct method of Bible Study:

"We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we speak of God’s secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:

“No eye has seen,

no ear has heard,

no mind has conceived

what God has prepared for those who love him”—

10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.[c] 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment:

16 “For who has known the mind of the Lord

that he may instruct him?”[d]

But we have the mind of Christ."

1Corinthians 2:6-16.

It is clear that most people do not study the Bible this way and that why there is so much hocus pocus theology!

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

The return of Christ in the Second Coming is NOT COVERED IN THE BOOK OF DANIEL!

You saw till a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image upon its feet that were of iron and clay, and broke them to pieces. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that no place was found for them: and the stone that struck the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. Dan 2:34,35

What do you think this is referring to? And since you believe that everything in the book of Daniel has already happened, point to the event in the history books that you think this prophecy is talking about? What has struck the nations, (the image) became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth?

Something that big should be easy to point to.

Also, what do you think the stone cut out without hands is?

I would be happy to respond to your question. I have already answered this question on one of these threads if not this thread!

The Stone cut out without hands is Jesus Christ at His "First Coming". If you look at numerous texts concerning the Kingdom of Heaven in the Gospels you will see they all say that the Kingdom of Heaven is either "near" or "already in the hearts of humans". That is the Kingdom of Heaven has already come. The Kingdom of Heaven is not some "future??????event?????.

Jesus Christ stated that He had overcome the "world" and defeated it! I would say that this is the Stone that smashes everything and the Kingdom of God is already in place. That it actually has been in place since Adam sinned because Jesus Christ is the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the World"!

In my next post I will attempt to recreate those texts in the Gospels that I referred to above!

There for the "Stone" is not some future event!

[miz3]

"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces."

Daniel 2:44-45.

Let us compare this text to these texts!

"In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.” 3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:

“A voice of one calling in the desert,

‘Prepare the way for the Lord,

make straight paths for him.’”"

Matthew 3:1-3.

John the Baptist states that the "Kingdom of Heaven" is NEAR! That means it cannot be thousands of years later!

"From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."

Matthew 4:17.

Now we have Jesus Christ's own Word which also says that the Kingdom of Heaven is not thousands of years to come but it is "NEAR"!

"As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’"

Matthew 10:7.

In this instance we have Jesus Christ commanding His Disciples to preach that the Kingdom of Heaven is "NEAR"! Again it is not thousands of years yet to come!

"From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it."

Matthew 11:12.

Sounds like the Kingdom of Heaven is already HERE! And people are already participating in the Kingdom of Heaven. Again, not thousands of years later!

"He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them."

Matthew 13:11.

Again the Kingdom of Heaven is already here and some are learning its secrets in their "here and now". Again not thousands of years later.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to."

Matthew 23:13.

Again, this text states that the Kingdom of Heaven is already here in the days of Jesus Christ's first coming and that the Jewish leaders are keeping humans from accessing the Kingdom of Heaven. Again, no thousands of years yet to come! It was already here in the days of Jesus Christ's first coming!

God expects people to experience the Kingdom of Heaven here and now! Indeed where ever the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven is preached the Kingdom of Heaven has smashed the workings of humans.

Just as the text in Daniel stated Jesus Christ's first coming is when the Kingdom of Heaven "in the time of these kings (Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome)" did smash these human kingdoms.

Notice the Daniel text says "in the time of these kings" and then lists these kings by their substance. Even Daniel in chapter two tells us that the "Rock cut out without hands" takes place under the time period of "these kings". NOT THOUSANDS OF YEARS IN THE FUTURE!

That means the Daniel could not possibly be talking about thousands of years later.

You see the Bible is very simple and easy in its message! No complicated, time lines, complex historical stuff, no linguistical gymnastics, no implied thises or thats, etc. Just simply reading what the straight Word of God actually says.

[John317]

The Stone cut out without hands is Jesus Christ at His "First Coming". ....That is the Kingdom of Heaven has already come. The Kingdom of Heaven is not some "future??????event?????.

Jesus Christ stated that He had overcome the "world" and defeated it! I would say that this is the Stone that smashes everything and the Kingdom of God is already in place. That it actually has been in place since Adam sinned because Jesus Christ is the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the World"!

....There for the "Stone" is not some future event!

But that is clearly contradicted by the prophecy. The prophecy is that the kingdom of God spoken of "shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms..."

Daniel 2: 34, 35 makes it even more plain that the prophet is not talking about Christ's first coming:

Quote:

Daniel 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet [that were] of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

The above obviously was not fulfilled at the first coming of Christ.

These prophecies are fulfilled in the following texts:

Quote:

2 Thess. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

3:11 [seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness,

3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Rev. 19: 11 And nd I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great.

19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which [sword] proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

[miz3]

Do you want me to list all the various ways that some people understand it?

People understand virtually everything in a lot of different ways-- that is the nature of humans--- but here, I am telling you what I believe is true, not what others believe.

Christ's kingdom is not really set up until Christ returns for His church. That is when all the kingdoms of the earth will be overthrown and replaced by the reign of God. It is the end of human history as we know it. See Daniel 2: 44.

"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces."

Daniel 2:44-45.

Let us compare this text to these texts!

"In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.” 3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:

“A voice of one calling in the desert,

‘Prepare the way for the Lord,

make straight paths for him.’”"

Matthew 3:1-3.

John the Baptist states that the "Kingdom of Heaven" is NEAR! That means it cannot be thousands of years later!

"From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."

Matthew 4:17.

Now we have Jesus Christ's own Word which also says that the Kingdom of Heaven is not thousands of years to come but it is "NEAR"!

"As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’"

Matthew 10:7.

In this instance we have Jesus Christ commanding His Disciples to preach that the Kingdom of Heaven is "NEAR"! Again it is not thousands of years yet to come!

"From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it."

Matthew 11:12.

Sounds like the Kingdom of Heaven is already HERE! And people are already participating in the Kingdom of Heaven. Again, not thousands of years later!

"He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them."

Matthew 13:11.

Again the Kingdom of Heaven is already here and some are learning its secrets in their "here and now". Again not thousands of years later.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to."

Matthew 23:13.

Again, this text states that the Kingdom of Heaven is already here in the days of Jesus Christ's first coming and that the Jewish leaders are keeping humans from accessing the Kingdom of Heaven. Again, no thousands of years yet to come! It was already here in the days of Jesus Christ's first coming!

God expects people to experience the Kingdom of Heaven here and now! Indeed where ever the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven is preached the Kingdom of Heaven has smashed the workings of humans.

Just as the text in Daniel stated Jesus Christ's first coming is when the Kingdom of Heaven "in the time of these kings (Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome)" did smash these human kingdoms.

Notice the Daniel text says "in the time of these kings" and then lists these kings by their substance. Even Daniel in chapter two tells us that the "Rock cut out without hands" takes place under the time period of "these kings". NOT THOUSANDS OF YEARS IN THE FUTURE!

That means the Daniel could not possibly be talking about thousands of years later.

You see the Bible is very simple and easy in its message! No complicated, time lines, complex historical stuff, no linguistical gymnastics, no implied thises or thats, etc. Just simply reading what the straight Word of God actually says.

[Guest]

There for the "Stone" is not some future event!

[John317]

Is Christ ruling as King now?

Does He have the kingly crown on and the King's robe on at this time?

Or is He the High Priest?

Notice that Jesus doesn't come as King until Rev. 19: 15, 16, which occurs at the second coming.

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted By: Kevin H

John Wood McCall, Jim Fleming, Abraham Joshua Heshel, William Foxwell Albright, William Shea, Nelson Glick, John Bright, Yohanan Aharoni, Lynn Harper Wood, Edwin Theile, Sigrid Horn, Yigael Yadin, Lawrence Gerity etc. have been a group that I enjoy hanging around.

I'm jealous. How in the world do you know how to meet up with these guys? They never advertise what church they go to, lol.

The power of the printing press and recordings. As well as sitting in some of their classes and hearing when they are in town giving lectures.

[miz3]

The kings and kingdoms of Daniel chapter two are:

Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome!

That is only four kingdoms! Daniel chapter two DOES NOT LIST ANY MORE KINGDOMS THAN THESE FOUR!

There is NO FIFTH KINGDOM!

There is no split kingdom!

THERE ARE ONLY FOUR KINGDOMS.

Daniel two states that in "IN THE TIME OF THESE KINGS"! Which kings?

THE KINGS OF BABYLON, MEDIA-PERSIA, GREECE, AND ROME!

There is not a scintilla of evidence in Daniel chapter two that it is talking about the Second Coming! Such a notion is only a preconceived idea that must come from a source outside of the Bible!

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted By: Kevin H

John Wood McCall, Jim Fleming, Abraham Joshua Heshel, William Foxwell Albright, William Shea, Nelson Glick, John Bright, Yohanan Aharoni, Lynn Harper Wood, Edwin Theile, Sigrid Horn, Yigael Yadin, Lawrence Gerity etc. have been a group that I enjoy hanging around.

So!

Are these "angels" or are they "inspired prophets"?

Are you??? If I should not listen to them if they are not angels or inspired prophets, then why should I listen to you or anyone else who is not an angel or an inspired prophet? God uses more than just prophts.

[Truth Files]

"The Stone cut out without hands is Jesus Christ at His "First Coming". If you look at numerous texts concerning the Kingdom of Heaven in the Gospels you will see they all say that the Kingdom of Heaven is either "near" or "already in the hearts of humans". That is the Kingdom of Heaven has already come. The Kingdom of Heaven is not some "future??????event?????."

>Now I see under your cover Miz3 [whose book have you been reading?] .... you are a hyper-preterist with an amillennial perspective .... a "kingdom now" ruse

>The Lord's millennial kingdom on the earth will not come until He brings it .... this has not and will not be done by mortal man [Psalms 2; Revelation 6:12-17] .... and His intent is to seek the end of all of human self rule in the process .... this He is going to do

>He is not ruling on the earth at this time .... lost humanity is ..... look around

>So you think that the Lord's kingdom on the earth is now present and has been for the last 2000 years .... and that Satan is in the abyss so that he cannot deceive the nations .... how can anyone believe this story

>Exactly where do you live? .... not on this planet for sure

>Your view is totally unrealistic and the scriptures tell a far different story

>For instance, when did these things take place in the past [Ezekiel 38; 39; Micah 4:1-3 [has there not been warfare during the past 2000 years]; Zechariah 14 [are these events of the past .... or future? .... if past, give the evidence]; Revelation 16:1-16; 19:11-21] .... all must have occurred in the past according to your view because the next event scheduled after Armageddon [Revelation 16:16; 19:19-21] is the capture of Satan and his imprisonment in the abyss [Revelation 20:1-3]

>According to you Satan is already in the abyss and is not deceiving anyone .... this is folly by the way

>So .... if you are right then tell me when all of the examples of previous events take place?

>I want documented historical records to substantiate your claim

>And I have to tell you that Daniel 2:35; 2:44 is still a future event

>Here is what you need to know .... Satan is still in the business of actively deceiving humanity ..... he works day and night at the process, and one of his key strategies is to discount and confuse the Lord's prophetic word into mush .... and he has you thinking that he is locked up

[John317]

[

"In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.” 3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:

“A voice of one calling in the desert,

‘Prepare the way for the Lord,

make straight paths for him.’”"

Matthew 3:1-3.

John the Baptist states that the "Kingdom of Heaven" is NEAR! That means it cannot be thousands of years later!

Yes, "near." And what does that mean?

Remember that Jesus says at the end of Revelation, "Surely I am coming soon." (REv. 22: 12, 20). The Greek word here may be translated as "soon" or "quickly."

How can "soon" mean 2000 years later?

In the same way that "near" can mean 2000 years. God doesn't reckon time in the same way humans do.

Jesus meant the Kingdom of God has drawn near in the sense that it's now time to prepare for it and that people can begin to participate in the kingdom even now by allowing the laws of God's reign to be established in their hearts and lives.

But Jesus is also saying that the Kingdom hasn't yet come in outward signs. It will do that eventually, but that time is not yet. The kingdom is in people's hearts as Jesus rules as king in our lives.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

There for the "Stone" is not some future event!

I figured you were going to say that, but it's not Biblical.

If it were not a future event, and had already taken place, then it would be history and NOT prophecy. But the fact is, that it's a prophecy given to Daniel by God. So that rules out the idea that it happened at the foundation of the world.

You really have to twist the scriptures to get it to take part of the prophecy right out of the middle, and say "this is history, it happened at the foundation of the world. That would be a giant stretch, even for you.

Quote:

I would say that this is the Stone that smashes everything

But everything hasn't been smashed.

It was PROPHECY FOR DANIEL AND HIS PEOPLE! That is the audience of the Book of Daniel. Daniel clearly states that is his purpose in his prayer. Daniel chapter two was Nebuchadnezzar's desire to know the future for him!

The Prophecy was not meant to be a prophecy for US TODAY!

When Jesus said that He had overcome the world was He lying? JESUS FELT HE HAD SMASHED EVERYTHING!

You see the CROSS is the CENTRAL EVENT OF ALL HUMAN EXPERIENCE! You are trying to make SDA and 1844 the center which is clearly not Biblical.

Jesus Christ did not say that He would overcome the world in the future! Read those Kingdom of Heaven texts over again! They state that the Kingdom of Heaven has already come and is not some future event.

If you disagree with this, you do not disagree with me but you disagree with the BIBLE!

THEREFORE MY FRIEND YOU ARE WRONG! I AM BIBLICAL AND IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU ARE NOT BIBLICAL!

[miz3]

Are you??? If I should not listen to them if they are not angels or inspired prophets, then why should I listen to you or anyone else who is not an angel or an inspired prophet? God uses more than just prophts.

I am not asking you to listen to me!

I am asking that you read the Scripture properly without your preconceived ideas from other sources cluttering up your mind!

I am asking you to call on the Holly Spirit as it tells us to do in 1Corinthians chapter 2:6-16.

I am asking you to sit at the Feet of Jesus and Learn of Him!

I see a lot of preconceived ideas in your position!

[Truth Files]

"In the same way that "near" can mean 2000 years. God doesn't reckon time in the same way humans do.

Jesus meant the Kingdom of God has drawn near in the sense that it's now time to prepare for it and that people can begin to participate in the kingdom even now by allowing the laws of God's reign to be established in our hearts and lives."

>An absolute biblical fact John317 [2Peter 3:8-9]

>And I must say that this time measurement is not for supporting a day for a 1000 years, but that the Lord counts time much differently .... He exists in the infinite .... we live in the finite

>And we are fortunate indeed that He has waited this long, otherwise He could have changed the game long ago, and we would have never existed for the opportunity to live with Him forever

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

[

"In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.” 3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:

“A voice of one calling in the desert,

‘Prepare the way for the Lord,

make straight paths for him.’”"

Matthew 3:1-3.

John the Baptist states that the "Kingdom of Heaven" is NEAR! That means it cannot be thousands of years later!

Yes, "near." And what does that mean?

Remember that Jesus says at the end of Revelation, "Surely I am coming soon." (REv. 22: 12, 20). The Greek word here may be translated as "soon" or "quickly."

How can "soon" mean 2000 years later?

In the same way that "near" can mean 2000 years. God doesn't reckon time in the same way humans do.

Jesus meant the Kingdom of God has drawn near in the sense that it's now time to prepare for it and that people can begin to participate in the kingdom even now by allowing the laws of God's reign to be established in their hearts and lives.

But Jesus is also saying that the Kingdom hasn't yet come in outward signs. It will do that eventually, but that time is not yet. The kingdom is in people's hearts as Jesus rules as king in our lives.

Come on John317 don't cherry pick one text. You left out the text that states "the Kingdom of Heaven is in you". That means it is already here!

You cannot cherry pick texts and ignore other texts. I am disappointed in your scholarship!

[John317]

THERE ARE ONLY FOUR KINGDOMS.

Daniel two states that in "IN THE TIME OF THESE KINGS" Which kings?

THE KINGS OF BABYLON, MEDIA-PERSIA, GREECE, AND ROME!

There is not a scintilla of evidence in Daniel chapter two that it is talking about the Second Coming! Such a notion is only a preconceived idea that must come from a source outside of the Bible!

You are right that there are only four kingdoms that Daniel talks about, the last one being Rome. Rome still exists as papal Rome. It has been papal Rome since 438 AD when the bishop of Rome began to rule unhindered by serious competition. Papal Rome is the little-horn of Daniel 7 and 8. (Pagan Rome had meanwhile moved to Constantinople.) So those kingdoms and peoples still do exist even to this day.

[Guest]

The Prophecy was not meant to be a prophecy for US TODAY!

Then why did the angel say seal up the book because it is for the time of the end?

And, show me when all these events took place already. People have asked you that already, but you haven't produced a single one. That's because you can't.

[miz3]

Truth Files the only Book I have been reading is the Bible.

I don't lutter my mind with other person's preconceived ideas!

See that is the problem you all seem to have, you have been brain washed with so many preconceived ideas, instead of reading the Bible the way 1Corinthians chapter 2:6-16 says we should!

[miz3]

Is Christ ruling as King now?

Does He have the kingly crown on and the King's robe on at this time?

Or is He the High Priest?

Notice that Jesus doesn't come as King until Rev. 19: 15, 16, which occurs at the second coming.

Yes! Jesus told Pilot that He was a King! Did you forget that little FACT! He also told Pilot that His Kingdom was not of this world!

Yes, when Jesus Christ returns at the Second Coming He will come as a King because He has always been a King! Even at the Second Coming while coming as King not all opposition will have died!

[John317]

Jesus meant the Kingdom of God has drawn near in the sense that it's now time to prepare for it and that people can begin to participate in the kingdom even now by allowing the laws of God's reign to be established in their hearts and lives.

But Jesus is also saying that the Kingdom hasn't yet come in outward signs. It will do that eventually, but that time is not yet. The kingdom is in people's hearts as Jesus rules as king in our lives.

Originally Posted By: miz3

Come on John317 don't cherry pick one text. You left out the text that states "the Kingdom of Heaven is in you". That means it is already here!

As I said already, the kingdom of heaven is here in the persons of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit and to the extent that people claiming to be His followers allow Him to rule their lives.

The word "within" is translated from a Greek word which may also be translated as "among you" or "in your midst." Luke 17: 21. Christ's kingdom was already in their midst or among them in the prerson of Jesus Christ.

But that is not the primary fulfillment of the prophecy of Daniel 2: 34, 35, 43-45.

Notice what Jesus says in Luke 17: 24-- that at some future time, "the Son of Man will be in His day." What day is that? The day when Christ's kindgom destroys and consumes the sinful, rebellious kingdoms of this world, which are largely ruled by Satan.