Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 ... He will seek for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, that is, for the lost sheep of the house Modern Israel. I'd like to know more of what you mean by seeking for the lost sheep of modern Israel. Who are the lost sheep and what does God want us to tell them when we find them? Specifically, what do you believe God wants us to tell them about the church? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 Nicolaitans Nico means to rule, to dominate over the laitans, that is, over the laity. Rev 2: 13-14 show us what practices of the Nicolaitans the Lord hated: Quote: [14] But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality. So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. NOTE: The Nicolaitans taught that the Christian faith allowed believers to disobey God's law and live immorally. They compromised with the pagan world. Nicolas means "one who conquers the people." Irenaeus writes that Nicolas, who was made a deacon in Acts 6, was a false believer who later became apostate; but because of his credentials he was able to lead the church astray. And like Balaam, he led the people into immorality and wickedness. Clement of Alexandria says, "They (the followers of Nicolas) abandoned themselves to pleasure like goats, leading a life of self-indulgence." Their teaching perverted God's grace and replaced Christian liberty with license. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
joeb Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: skyblue888 ..."Because they failed of fulfilling God's purpose, the children of Israel were set aside, and God's call was extended to other peoples. If these too prove unfaithful, (SDAs) will they not in like manner be rejected?" C.O.L.304. *parenthesis supplied The call of God is conditional. Yes, the call of God to us as individual believers is definitely conditional. Ellen White says that the Advent movement that arose after 1844 will go through to the end, so the only real question we need to ask ourselves is whether we will go through with it. A new "coming out" won't be necessary. Nothing that the Bible or Ellen White say should be understood to support the notion some deluded people have that SDAs need to drop out of the church. We can be sure that anyone who's teaching that the SDA church is Babylon or that God calls people to leave the Seventh-day Adventist Church, is not of God. John317, You seem to have missed the point of what you quoted. The Jews were rejected as a nation. The election went to the remnant of the Jews, those who believed on Christ, but the Jewish nation as a unit was rejected. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
joeb Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 While there are PEOPLE within the church that are in apostasy, to say the church itself is in apostasy is at best inflamatory and will certainly cause many to stumble. This is the fundamental reason behind off shoots to begin with. The issue is serious enough where I believe we have a responsibility to "meet it", as Sister White said concerning the Alpha Apostasy inspired by Dr. Kellogg. We also have a duty to recognize the evil in the church. An integral part of the 3 angels message is: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. Our universities are teaching evolution. That is in direct opposition to the message we proclaim to be our message. I would say that this is an institutional apostacy. It is not the failure of individuals, but the failure of the organization. We've sold out for federal money. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 You seem to have missed the point of what you quoted. The Jews were rejected as a nation. The election went to the remnant of the Jews, those who believed on Christ, but the Jewish nation as a unit was rejected. How do you understand this in relationship to the Seventh-day Adventist Church? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 ...We also have a duty to recognize the evil in the church. An integral part of the 3 angels message is: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. True, but that is different from denouncing the church as being a part of Babylon, which some are doing. And it is different from encouraging people to leave the church. God's people in the church will certainly be sighing and crying because of the sins they see in the church-- and they won't be silent about them-- but at the same time they recognize that it is still God's church. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
joeb Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 How do you understand this in relationship to the Seventh-day Adventist Church? That the SDA church also has conditional promises, and that if we fail to obey God and finish the work He has for us He will raise up a remnant from this church and combine it with His sheep from those outside this church to finish it. Lysimachus(spelling?) gave a couple of quotes from Ellen White that said this directly. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 ...Our universities are teaching evolution. That is in direct opposition to the message we proclaim to be our message. Yes, I agree. This is definitely something that all Seventh-day Adventists need to be praying about. I'm not opposed to teaching college students about the theory of evolution, because I believe they do need to understand it, yet our schools should be putting their emphasis on creationism, not evolution. The teachers should be showing the students why evolution can't account for life on earth. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 That the SDA church also has conditional promises, and that if we fail to obey God and finish the work He has for us He will raise up a remnant from this church and combine it with His sheep from those outside this church to finish it. Is there any way to know when this point is reached? There are quite a few former SDA who are teaching that this point has already been reached. They are urging SDAs to get out of the church because they believe the SDA church will be the first to feel the wrath of God. Do you believe they could be right? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 ... Lysimachus(spelling?) gave a couple of quotes from Ellen White that said this directly. What specific lines do you believe Ellen White wrote which directly state that God will raise up a different church or that God will reject the Seventh-day Adventist Church and give the message to another church? Am I misunderstanding your meaning? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
joeb Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: joeb ...We also have a duty to recognize the evil in the church. An integral part of the 3 angels message is: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. True, but that is different from denouncing the church as being a part of Babylon, which some are doing. And it is different from encouraging people to leave the church. God's people in the church will certainly be sighing and crying because of the sins they see in the church-- and they won't be silent about them-- but at the same time they recognize that it is still God's church. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 ...Our universities are teaching evolution. That is in direct opposition to the message we proclaim to be our message. I would say that this is an institutional apostacy. It is not the failure of individuals, but the failure of the organization. We've sold out for federal money. Do you mean it's the failureof the university? Or do you mean it's the failure of the whole SDA church? I agree that we need to be careful that we don't allow federal money to get us into positions where the church is compromising the truth. I'm afraid this has already happened too often. But we don't have to keep doing it. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
joeb Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: joeb That the SDA church also has conditional promises, and that if we fail to obey God and finish the work He has for us He will raise up a remnant from this church and combine it with His sheep from those outside this church to finish it. Is there any way to know when this point is reached? There are quite a few former SDA who are teaching that this point has already been reached. They are urging SDAs to get out of the church because they believe the SDA church will be the first to feel the wrath of God. Do you believe they could be right? Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 We, as a church, are even attacking the message given us by God. This is so tragic and sad to watch, but God revealed that these things would happen. From my perspective they show that we're closer to the end than most people would imagine. I believe that God allows these things to happen in order to help us prepare for the end, because none of us will be able to rely on others for the truth. We have to understand it for ourselves and be sealed so that we cannot be moved. We must learn to stand all alone with only Christ as our support. We won't be able to look to our pastors or our leaders. Even our families and friends may desert us. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
joeb Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: joeb ...Our universities are teaching evolution. That is in direct opposition to the message we proclaim to be our message. I would say that this is an institutional apostacy. It is not the failure of individuals, but the failure of the organization. We've sold out for federal money. Do you mean it's the failureof the university? Or do you mean it's the failure of the whole SDA church? I agree that we need to be careful that we don't allow federal money to get us into positions where the church is compromising the truth. I'm afraid this has already happened too often. But we don't have to keep doing it. That is the failure of the church. If a university goes rogue then it is the responsibility of the church to shut it down. The buck stops with the church. The selling out for federal money isn't in the past. It's not that it's happened. It's that it is happening. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
joeb Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 What specific lines do you believe Ellen White wrote which directly state that God will raise up a different church or that God will reject the Seventh-day Adventist Church and give the message to another church? Am I misunderstanding your meaning? Read post #485415 near the beginning of this thread. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 (quoting): Jesus said, Be perfect as your Father is perfect. If you are the children of God you are partakers of His nature, and you cannot but be like Him. Every child lives by the life of his father. If you are God's children, begotten by His Spirit, you live by the life of God. In Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily( Colossians 2:9 ); and the life of Jesus is made manifest in our mortal flesh ( 2 Corinthians 4:11 ). That life in you will produce the same character and manifest the same works as it did in Him. Thus you will be in harmony with every precept of His law; for the law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul. Psalm 19:7 , margin. Through love the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4. Thanks for the quote. It does happen, but it is progressive and not something that happens overnight. Also, there's comfort in the fact that no one is going to be aware that they're like Jesus. The closer we come to Christ, the more we think of others and of Jesus and not of ourselves. If we look to ourselves, we will be discouraged, so we need to keep our eyes on Jesus. It's also true that if we're in Christ, God sees Jesus' perfect character in place of our own. The main thing is to be truly in Christ and to have Christ in us. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 Antipas represent those who oppose "pas" meaning the pa pa cy, who oppose those who would lord it over them. They are the "little church" that will appear to fall but will not fall. Antipas of Rev. 2: 13 was probably the pastor of the church who was martyred. His name means "against all" or "in place of all." Pas means "all" or "whole" and has nothing to do with the papacy. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 ...This working for the lost sheep of Israel, with that being the primary focus, the only focus, is a hall mark of many who have left the organized church. Interesting. That's what I thought it might mean when I saw it but I wasn't sure if this is what was being referred to. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 ...The only way we can come into unity, and be of the same mind and the same judgment, is for all of us to fully surrender our hearts to Christ. Only as we fully surrender our hearts to the central authority of the church, Christ, can we be in harmony. It is that lack of surrender that keeps us pointing in different directions. Only as we take Paul's advice to "let this mind be you which was in Christ Jesus" can we be of one mind. I agree with you, and would like to know more of what you're thinking along this line. For example, how do you see being fully surrendered will bring us into harmony on doctrinal matters? For example, the church's differences on the Godhead, the nature of Christ's humanity, the Investigative Judgment, the Spirit of prophecy, etc. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
joeb Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 Originally Posted By: joeb (quoting): Jesus said, Be perfect as your Father is perfect. If you are the children of God you are partakers of His nature, and you cannot but be like Him. Every child lives by the life of his father. If you are God's children, begotten by His Spirit, you live by the life of God. In Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily( Colossians 2:9 ); and the life of Jesus is made manifest in our mortal flesh ( 2 Corinthians 4:11 ). That life in you will produce the same character and manifest the same works as it did in Him. Thus you will be in harmony with every precept of His law; for the law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul. Psalm 19:7 , margin. Through love the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4. Thanks for the quote. It does happen, but it is progressive and not something that happens overnight. Also, there's comfort in the fact that no one is going to be aware that they're like Jesus. The closer we come to Christ, the more we think of others and of Jesus and not of ourselves. If we look to ourselves, we will be discouraged, so we need to keep our eyes on Jesus. It's also true that if we're in Christ, God sees Jesus' perfect character in place of our own. The main thing is to be truly in Christ and to have Christ in us. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 You are once again missing the point. How many SDA's actually believe what is said in the quote? By that I mean, believe it to the point they actually live their lives by these truths. I saw that point but I decided to emphasize a different point that I feel is important.:-) Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Posted October 19, 2011 Today this last message of mercy (1888 message) must again for the last time first go to the lost sheep of modern Israel before it swells into the loud cry to the world. Can you briefly describe what that message is which must go to the lost sheep of modern Israel? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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