Will the SDA church "Fall"?

[Alchemy]

When the Sunday law hits the Adventist church folks will be forced to make very rapid decisions. Some decide this, others that. This will not appear to be any different than any other day of the week, or any other Sabbath. Life goes on, people buying, selling, building, doing yard work. Just another Sabbath morning when you go to church. No signs of any miraculous events taking place, everything seems perfectly normal.

So you get to church, on time and what do you find? A virtually empty parking lot. Do you have the keys to unlock the doors of the church? Perhaps those who normally open the church have not come, you think they might be late. But in fact, they aren't coming. What will you do? Break in? Hold your service as best you can in the parking lot? It will be very confusing at best. Perhaps you will start making cell phone calls and slowly the truth will dawn, the people aren't coming! You look around, the husband is here, but his wife isn't. The wife is here, but her husband isn't. Families have been split. Where is the Pastor? The Head Elder? The Secretary? Those with KEYS! Not here.

The events will happen very quickly, the church is disappearing, there are only a few left. Very soon after this great calamities will begin. Ever more Adventist will make their decision to leave. Some to protect their jobs, or their Social Securtity check or that investment that provides income. The HAVE to feed their family after all. Some husbands won't leave their wives and children. Some children will be forced to take a stand against their parents. While great calamities are falling all over the world, for the most part, life goes on. Just another day in the life... You will get hungry, but cannot buy food without that special government issued card. Your debit card doesn't work anymore, because you didn't sign that new agreement and get your "mark". How will you pay the bills? How will you heat the house? How will you provide for your family?

THIS is a time of very personal testing, you WILL stand alone. Your church has abandoned you, your family has taken a stand you must chose between them and your religion. You are not allowed to drive the family car, your cell phone is broken, sabatoged perhaps. Your children are pleading for you to unite with them and stop this foolish religion. You walk/hitch hike to church for Wednesday night prayer meeting or on Sabbath. There are even fewer now than last time.

Your conviction grows stronger, you will NOT turn your back on God, no matter what. Your decision is made, you WILL stay with the church regardless of the outcome. You are at once, incredibly sad, deeply afflicated of soul, torn between two worlds. Fearful of your own spiritual condition. You stand alone, every earthly support has been withdrawn. What do you do? Snap out of it! You quit looking to self, to people, you look only to God, so clearly now as never before your only hope. You realize NOW is the time you must give the final warning to anyone who will listen. You go right to work, for the Lord, to carry this message, with power.

And they start to come, strangers for the most part, but filled with the love of God. They will have to learn much in a very short time, meetings are quickly organized to teach and instruct. The once empty church begins to fill, with folks who barely know the routine of a typical Sabbath service. With them, you search the scriptures as if your life depended on it, because it does!

All around you the calamities increase to amazing proportions. Open air meetings are being held in town. Sponsored by your Pastor and other former leaders of the church, urging Adventists to stop this foolishness and support Sunday worship. For God and for country. To save the planet, to save your family, to receive your income, your "mark". Meanwhile, folks continue to do business, buy and sell, build and trade, just another day in the life for them... They will watch the lastest fire, earth quake, world calamity on CNN, if the TV still works.

Excellent post, ClubV12.

[Gustave]

There will never be a "Sunday Law"...

...This is simply a fantasy carrot used to keep to keep people in the denomination.

[ClubV12]

When it happens don't be afraid to join those who will stand for the truth. There will no embarrasement, no apologies needed to or from anyone. Just come to the Lord as you are, it is enough.

[Lysimachus]

There will never be a "Sunday Law"...

...This is simply a fantasy carrot used to keep to keep people in the denomination.

Never be?

Don't speak so quick my friend. There are stirrings happening as of right now that are causing many in the world, who always wondered about those "whacko Adventists" now asking "perhaps Adventists were right after all?"

The developments speak for themselves, and should cause one's hairs to stand on edge. You may argue, "oh, but these are political issues, not enforcing Sunday, but protecting Sunday". Easy now my friend---what do you think it will take for them to get their foot in the door? Ah yes, start out smoothly. These following links only reveal the small stepping stones to the great crisis that is soon to break upon the world.

And you will be running with your tail between your legs once you discover that Adventist predictions were right all along:

European Sunday Alliance Forms To Compel Governmental Enforcement Of Sunday Rest - with the euphemism the “added value” of the synchronisation of free time.

This Vatican campaign lays the groundwork for the coming Sunday Law

Don't be so quick friend! It's comin, soooooner dan ya think!!

[John317]

There will never be a "Sunday Law"...

...This is simply a fantasy carrot used to keep to keep people in the denomination.

It's wise to put our trust in the Bible and not in what we think will never happen. I'm sure the people of Noah's day thought rain was utterly impossible and a fantasy.

The Bible definitely and clearly teaches that the sea-beast of Rev. 13 will demand on penalty of death that people disobey God's commandments. We know this because the people who keep God's commandments don't receive the mark of the beast.

What command will he require people to disobey?

Daniel 7: 25 says that the little-horn power intends to change the times and the law. There's only one commandment that deals with time, and that's the Sabbath.

The little horn power and the sea-beast of Rev. 13 are one and the same. He's also called the man of lawlessness. It just so happens that Sunday-keeping is a mark of the papacy's authority.

The papacy fulfills all 10 of the identifying marks of the sea-beast of Rev. 13 and the little-horn of Daniel 7 & 8.

Daniel 7:25

He shall speak words against the Most High,

and shall wear out the saints of the Most High,

and shall think to change the times and the law;

and they shall be given into his hand

for a time, times, and half a time.

[John317]

There will never be a "Sunday Law"...

Gustave, if the government made such a law, would you be in favor of it and would you obey it?

At first it will appear to be completely reasonable and good. It will be a day for the family to have time to go to church and to rest.

Prophecy tells us the law will have the popular support of most of the people in the United States. It won't be imposed on an unwilling people. They will ask the government to make such a law. It shows that the US will change, no longer having a clear separation between church and state.

[doug yowell]

There will never be a "Sunday Law"...

...This is simply a fantasy carrot used to keep to keep people in the denomination.

I'm not one who is real big on imminent Sunday laws, but never? We're only about 100 years removed from a National Sunday Law that was within months or weeks of becoming law. Never say never!

[ClubV12]

Our country was "founded", you might say, on Sunday laws! Roger Williams had to flee for his life from Massachusetts Bay Colony because he refused to acknowledge Sunday laws. He went to and founded Rhode Island on true religious freedom.

A National Sunday law was a big deal in CONGRESS in the early 1900's. A.T. Jones went to Washington to testify against it!

People in Australia were jailed for violating Sunday laws in that country during Ellen Whites lifetime. Of course many "blue laws" as they are often called still exist all over America at the State level.

It will come around again, this time on a Federal level.

[ClubV12]

Bear in mind, the question on THIS thread is not "IF" the Sunday law will happen (it will), the question is:

Will the CHURCH fall? HAS it fallen? Will it EVER fall? And to a limited degree, what IS the church?

We can be sure Ellen White, when speaking of Gods appointed organized church on earth, is referring to Seventh-day Adventists. While acknowledging the broader concept of many people in different religions around the world also comprising a part, a different part, of His church on earth.

It is the accepted view the organized church that it has not fallen nor will it ever fall. Generally speaking most Adventists share this view. Which is troubling to some and downright blasphemy to others. Some take the position the organized church "could fall" and promote this idea out of concern Adventists might grow to "comfortable" is we don't acknowledge this view point.

Others say the church has fallen, with various "dates" for that occurence. Anywhere from 1844, 1888 is popular, or pick any decade up to modern time. Off shoots, fanaticism and sincerely misguided folks in general typically comprise this group. In MY opinion, obviously, those IN an off shoot would disagree!

I believe we have a strong case, from the bible as well as the Spirit of Prophecy that UNLIKE Israel of old, the modern church will not fall, ever. Pain spreads across the face of those who think this position to be "dangerous"... But I am convinced, we have nothing to fear when this is properly understood. There WILL be a shaking that WILL purify the church. There is NO gaurentee membership in ANY church or group will save you. While salvation will always remain very "personal", God continues to have his people, His church. Organized, with a message for the world until the end of time, Seventh-day Adventists.

IF as a corporate body of believers we continue to mess this up, that shaking will be considerably more difficult than it needs to be. "We" will pay a heavy price for an "Adventist Nation" gone bad, never the less, the Adventist church will survive. Many in leadership and membership will leave, the church will still stand.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

There will never be a "Sunday Law"...

...This is simply a fantasy carrot used to keep to keep people in the denomination.

Never be?

Don't speak so quick my friend. There are stirrings happening as of right now that are causing many in the world, who always wondered about those "whacko Adventists" now asking "perhaps Adventists were right after all?"

The developments speak for themselves, and should cause one's hairs to stand on edge. You may argue, "oh, but these are political issues, not enforcing Sunday, but protecting Sunday". Easy now my friend---what do you think it will take for them to get their foot in the door? Ah yes, start out smoothly. These following links only reveal the small stepping stones to the great crisis that is soon to break upon the world.

And you will be running with your tail between your legs once you discover that Adventist predictions were right all along:

European Sunday Alliance Forms To Compel Governmental Enforcement Of Sunday Rest - with the euphemism the “added value” of the synchronisation of free time.

This Vatican campaign lays the groundwork for the coming Sunday Law

Don't be so quick friend! It's comin, soooooner dan ya think!!

SDA have been saying this since 1844.

To me such predictions are irrelevant. If one is right with God it doesn't matter.

To me the message is not "the Sunday law is coming". The message should be "do you know God?" if not then let me tell you about my great unbounded God who can do the impossible.

Everything else is just so much "window dressing" and does not matter.

When God comes He comes. The only ones worrying are the SDA because they are not ready because they do not God. Well some SDA do know God. If they knew God they would not worry any more what happens. It happens it happens you cannot do anything about what God has already planned.

SDA are the poster of confusion. (general statement not meant to indict all SDA). They are and have always been about scare people into the Church.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

There will never be a "Sunday Law"...

...This is simply a fantasy carrot used to keep to keep people in the denomination.

It's wise to put our trust in the Bible and not in what we think will never happen. I'm sure the people of Noah's day thought rain was utterly impossible and a fantasy.

The Bible definitely and clearly teaches that the sea-beast of Rev. 13 will demand on penalty of death that people disobey God's commandments. We know this because the people who keep God's commandments don't receive the mark of the beast.

What command will he require people to disobey?

Daniel 7: 25 says that the little-horn power intends to change the times and the law. There's only one commandment that deals with time, and that's the Sabbath.

The little horn power and the sea-beast of Rev. 13 are one and the same. He's also called the man of lawlessness. It just so happens that Sunday-keeping is a mark of the papacy's authority.

The papacy fulfills all 10 of the identifying marks of the sea-beast of Rev. 13 and the little-horn of Daniel 7 & 8.

Daniel 7:25

He shall speak words against the Most High,

and shall wear out the saints of the Most High,

and shall think to change the times and the law;

and they shall be given into his hand

for a time, times, and half a time.

Collection of texts interwoven profusely with human assumptions that are not in Biblical evidence.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

There will never be a "Sunday Law"...

Gustave, if the government made such a law, would you be in favor of it and would you obey it?

At first it will appear to be completely reasonable and good. It will be a day for the family to have time to go to church and to rest.

Prophecy tells us the law will have the popular support of most of the people in the United States. It won't be imposed on an unwilling people. They will ask the government to make such a law. It shows that the US will change, no longer having a clear separation between church and state.

This is not Biblical. However it comes from the pages of Ellen White.

Regardless, if such a scenario would become reality then we will see who belongs to God and who isn't. That is all there is too it.

Why do SDA want to scare people into the Church?

[ClubV12]

"Why do SDA want to scare people into the Church?"

Why do people want to cry peace and safty when sudden destruction is about to come upon them?

Fear is not an issue for me. Knowledge is powerful, we KNOW what to look for and HOW to confront it. I do not "fear" Sunday laws, I simply understand it is inevitable because the prophet has said it would happen. What are we to do about it? Fight against it with everything we have! Agitate the question, as this thread is doing. Bring it to the attention of the people. Talk about it, write books about, preach it. If that makes people "fear", for whatever reason, that for them, may be the beginning of wisdom. For those that say it can never happen, I'm OK with that. At least they will know it when they see it and perhaps then they will make a stand for God.

More important though is what are we, you, doing today to draw closer to Jesus? We, you, may not be alive when Sunday laws become reality. Perhaps your personal probabtion or death will occur with no such warning? TODAY is the time to decide for Jesus. If your "waiting" for some big event to take place, you've already missed the boat. The choices we make in our life daily will dictate the choice we make when the "big one" hits.

miz3 puts us into another tail spin with a major discussion condeming Adventists for their Sunday law views. Let it go man, Adventists preach Sunday laws, thats a fact. Condeming them for it only ties up and kills yet another thread covering the same old ground. Make your position known and move on. And we KNOW what your position on Adventists is miz3, we've heard it about a million times on every thread, nothing new here...

[Gustave]

Gustave, if the government made such a law, would you be in favor of it and would you obey it?

[Overaged]

SDA are the poster of confusion. (general statement not meant to indict all SDA). They are and have always been about scare people into the Church.

I have been scared out of the church a few times but never into it.

The biggest reason I joined the church; was because I saw Jesus in the Church, through a nurse who looked after me years ago when I was burned badly. The same *thing* that I saw in her, I saw in others at the church where she went, which was a Seventh-day Adventist Church.

My entire reasoning for becoming an Adventist was so simple - I just wanted to go where Jesus goes. I wanted to be with Him; and I will continue to go where He goes. (1 John 5:11-12)

[Overaged]

There will never be a "Sunday Law"...

...This is simply a fantasy carrot used to keep to keep people in the denomination.

Gustave my friend! Glad to see you are still alive and kicking us poor Adventists, Sadventists, Gladventists, Hadventists, Missedventists, Radventists, Willventists, Won'tventists, Shouldventists; and Betterventists around.

There are no "fantasy carrots" to keep me in our Church; although if an Adventist were to steam some carrots without peeling them; and serve them to me for breakfast; they would keep me at their house longer.

How do you know what keeps people in our church; or any other church - including your own?

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

SDA are the poster of confusion. (general statement not meant to indict all SDA). They are and have always been about scare people into the Church.

I have been scared out of the church a few times but never into it.

The biggest reason I joined the church; was because I saw Jesus in the Church, through a nurse who looked after me years ago when I was burned badly. The same *thing* that I saw in her, I saw in others at the church where she went, which was a Seventh-day Adventist Church.

My entire reasoning for becoming an Adventist was so simple - I just wanted to go where Jesus goes. I wanted to be with Him; and I will continue to go where He goes. (1 John 5:11-12)

It is your right to belong to whatever church you want. That however does not change the fact that SDA are a very confused group and it is getting harder and harder for them to hold onto their confused thinking.

Oh, by the way your donkey post was funny. However, I was just copying ClubV12 in my remarks so I guess that post goes for both of us. I cannot take all the credit.

[miz3]

Overaged, I have noticed on this forum when SDA get trapped and have little/to nothing to offer they tend to attack the other person and belittle them.

Such tactics are a real model for all the nonSDA to see as they travel through this forum.

[Overaged]

It is your right to belong to whatever church you want. That however does not change the fact that SDA are a very confused group and it is getting harder and harder for them to hold onto their confused thinking.

Oh, by the way your donkey post was funny. However, I was just copying ClubV12 in my remarks so I guess that post goes for both of us. I cannot take all the credit.

I will try to say this respectfully; but I fear it may be taken as otherwise. However, it needs to be said.

For over 20 years I have listened to people like you try to tell me just how *confused* the church I belonged to was/is. I have now come to conclude that it is not our Church that is confused; it is you who are confused about the Adventist Church.

I see Jesus everytime I go to an Adventist Church. How can that be *confusing?*

[Overaged]

Overaged, I have noticed on this forum when SDA get trapped and have little/to nothing to offer they tend to attack the other person and belittle them.

Such tactics are a real model for all the nonSDA to see as they travel through this forum.

Well; the converse could be true too. Maybe the ADVENTIST ATTACKERS are feeling a little trapped here. I mean, there is evidence...

[Gustave]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

There will never be a "Sunday Law"...

...This is simply a fantasy carrot used to keep to keep people in the denomination.

Gustave my friend! Glad to see you are still alive and kicking us poor Adventists, Sadventists, Gladventists, Hadventists, Missedventists, Radventists, Willventists, Won'tventists, Shouldventists; and Betterventists around.

[Overaged]

Gustave; just keep in mind that it actually is not true that Adventists think The Roman Catholic Church wants to torture them. We do believe that the Roman Catholic Church wants to rule the roost; and that she wont take no for an answer.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

It is your right to belong to whatever church you want. That however does not change the fact that SDA are a very confused group and it is getting harder and harder for them to hold onto their confused thinking.

Oh, by the way your donkey post was funny. However, I was just copying ClubV12 in my remarks so I guess that post goes for both of us. I cannot take all the credit.

I will try to say this respectfully; but I fear it may be taken as otherwise. However, it needs to be said.

For over 20 years I have listened to people like you try to tell me just how *confused* the church I belonged to was/is. I have now come to conclude that it is not our Church that is confused; it is you who are confused about the Adventist Church.

I see Jesus everytime I go to an Adventist Church. How can that be *confusing?*

You are entitled to your blindness. The Jews of Christ's day thought the same thing about themselves.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

Overaged, I have noticed on this forum when SDA get trapped and have little/to nothing to offer they tend to attack the other person and belittle them.

Such tactics are a real model for all the nonSDA to see as they travel through this forum.

Well; the converse could be true too. Maybe the ADVENTIST ATTACKERS are feeling a little trapped here. I mean, there is evidence...

You cannot be talking about me. I am not trapped. I mean, there is evidence....

[Overaged]

I see Jesus everytime I go to an Adventist Church. How can that be *confusing?* /quote]

You are entitled to your blindness. The Jews of Christ's day thought the same thing about themselves.

I think that in your desperation to *prove* me wrong somehow here that you are totally missing the point.

I stated that I see jesus whenever i go to an Adventist Church; and as anyone who knows anything would know - the jews never made that kind of claim.

Again; what is so confusing about seeing Jesus?