A Must Read Letter That Just Came In To Me

[ClubV12]

I don't have a major problem with the letter. It may be fairly accurate, with some misleading quotes here and there. But in general, OK, perhaps a problem has been identified. It's not like a huge surprise, we have been told the church will "appear as about to fall". I expect to see WAY more catastrophic events than this letter purports to show. Compared to whats coming, this is a drop in the bucket. Anyone who would leave the church over THIS is like chaff in the wind, easily blown away. When the hurricane hits, they won't even be around to see it!

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

I don't have a big problem with it either but it is alarming and I hope things will be righted but I guess I am doubtful. We will wait and see what comes about and if the Holy Spirit can take sway.

Because of things before this I see the church in a different light. We just must make sure we stand with Jesus Christ and all else must go.

I pray His Spirit guide all who will hear Him.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

I expect to see WAY more catastrophic events than this letter purports to show. Compared to whats coming, this is a drop in the bucket. Anyone who would leave the church over THIS is like chaff in the wind, easily blown away. When the hurricane hits, they won't even be around to see it!

I am glad that we can choose to not live in this kind of fear-mongering and "special truth hype." I'd rather choose to live each day, barely able to wait till it's time to wake up each morning to see what Jesus is going to do next; instead of what's that Satan gonna do next.

[Neil D]

ClubV12,

I don't have a big problem with it either but it is alarming and I hope things will be righted but I guess I am doubtful. We will wait and see what comes about and if the Holy Spirit can take sway.

Because of things before this I see the church in a different light. We just must make sure we stand with Jesus Christ and all else must go.

I pray His Spirit guide all who will hear Him.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Excuse me...If you "dont have a big problem with it either but it is alarming", then what are you doing????

I see you trying to focus us on the alarm when we should be focusing on the Author and Finisher of our faith...People continue to be alarmed at all sorts of problems, and hurts, and betrayals....and they go to the conference offices and they raise such a stink about the problem without seeing the real problem....they have caused others to take thier eyes off Jesus....And Jesus is trying to bring about unity of spirit....

I was in Walla Walla over the Thanksgiving Weekend..and heard Alex Brian...fine fellow, good speaker...I am friends with good solid Adventists there...they have no problem with him...but like Paul, if they don't understand what he is getting at, they ask and check...They have given him a good report to me...

I have heard from a couple of distant sources that Ted Wilson is a person who is NOT a solid Adventist leader. Please note, the "less than pristine agreement" is against his leadership, not his commitment to Adventism. These sources are not close to him. But they do get to reap the benefits of his leadership...And they are not all that "gun-ho" on his leadership.

As for other name that have been dropped in the origional post, I have heard thier names, but have not heard about thier leadership...

As for this "mystical" and spiritualism creeping into our church, I am afraid that you are not in tune with the things going on...at least here in the west coast. I believe that you have over blown your fears and are causing others to be shaken in thier faiths. We need to trust our Saviour more, not take our eyes off of Him....

...PLease, understand....Our experimental knowledge of Jesus will save us because we are focused on Him....It is His responsiblity to save us if He so chooses.....We are not to focus on the devil or what problems he may be causing...Our focus is on Jesus....

[ClubV12]

We should each do what is in our power to do. I don't know the folks that are addressing this issue in their church, I wish them the best. I cannot help them because I have no special knowledge of the details or the players.

I CAN say our local church is aware of the potential for this kind of error coming into OUR church. We are not preparing for any particular issue or event, we are preparing the congregation, as best we can with the Lords help, to stress how important it is for each of us to study. To know the truth for ourselves independantly.

Today a nice lady thanked me for my witness, I wasn't sure WHAT she was talking about and was a bit confused. She said I had mentioned what I was reading in the Spirit of Prophecy so much in Sabbath school class, SHE has started reading more herself as a result! Some time back another person also said, "Now you've got ME reading the Testimonies." She's a life long Adventist, never actually read one of the Testimonies before. The assistant PASTOR asked me for a CD of Volume 1 of the Testimonies so she could listen to it in her car! The word is catching on, people are getting refocused on knowing the truth for themselves.

THAT is what I'm doing.

[Overaged]

[Gibs]

It is always ultimately the ones in the pews who need to determine if the one speaking the message is ordained of God. Sure many are ordained of men but that is not who should be teaching. God, Jesus Christ in His church the speaker must be ordained of Him. When the speaker isn't then at that time he is speaking it is not Jesus Christ's church as He cannot be present there. He has made it clear He MUST be worshipped in Spirit and in Truth.

Before the disciples were sent out to preach they had to receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit at pentecost. Then it was only allowed that truly ones of being baptised of the Holy Spirit went forth.

That needs to be done today and it starts with the ones in the pews. None are to go where error is being forced upon them and a stand up af all who are all Truly in Christian Unity, Christ in them, then false teachers and error couldn't come in. So the problem does lay in the fact there is not enough True Christian Unity which few realize what that is.

When the members are not fully and totally Christ's there is not True Christian Unity. There may be plenty of unity of other things they as a structure hold but this is not the Unity of being ONE in Christ. Until this is the case the church can never be His Church and only can be a church of the world.

The Word to the Gentiles Paul summarized in this statement,

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

When Christ is one in the speaker and one in a good share of the ones in the pews then we have Jesus Christ's Church, Ekklesia.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[John317]

Why would you be grateful for something that is nothing short of falsehood? There is not a shred of evidence anywhere in this witch-crafted letter, that there is any of this stuff happening at the Eastgate church, or at Walla Walla. I am appalled that people would so readily approve of such mumbo-jumbo, without thoroughly investigating/documenting the matter.

As I said, in post #503244,

Quote:

If this letter is correct about what is being taught at Walla Walla by Pastor Alex Bryan and Associate Pastor, Emily M. Flottmann, about "Spiritual Formation," I find it very alarming. The World Church needs to take notice.

I hope your information is accurate. That would be good news.

[Gibs]

It is seen by some in the churches here that it has come in in places and it is apparent Ted Wilson is on to it. He has spoken of it in some of his addresses in places from what I have gathered. I have a friend that sent out information to different ones of Teds concern and his addressing it but has now been a couple months ago and the email now is long gone or I would post it.

This letter I posted was the second email I had gotten about it but I have a friend who keeps abreast of all the things of the church who has warned of these for months now and more in the past for years now.

Those in the pews must demand straight testimony only from Jesus Christ who only is the head of His Church.

It's like the Papacy, who is it's head? The Pope of course so it cannot be Christ's Church. The only head of Christ's Church is Himself, the Solid Rock of which the Church founded on Him and Him alone the gates of hell will not and cannot prevail against.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[John317]

Gibs,

Overaged said,

Quote:

There is not a shred of evidence anywhere in this witch-crafted letter, that there is any of this stuff happening at the Eastgate church, or at Walla Walla.

Do you have good evidence that Overaged is mistaken and that your prevous post about this topic is correct?

[Naomi]

[quote

I hope your information is accurate. .................

What I find most interesting about this thread is that it has inspired 9 pages of replies.

"Oh, how beautiful Heaven will be ............"

[Gibs]

John317,

On Walla Walla that is another place introduced in the letter. For me I am not familiar with it. But you can check out the website of the "Pioneer Mememorial Church", of Andrews University, Berrien Springs. I am told they have an entire page devoted to Lectio Divina on the website there. It may have been removed I don't know but since a stir has been made it would be wise of them for sure. What goes there is known to replicate all over the world. Dwight Nelson is the pastor there.

I'm not a "cyber" person, being over 80 now so I leave those hard to find searches to the cyber prolific ones. To probably find the page in question may take some time and expertise.

It looks to me like it is a stumbling block hard to remove that maybe even the majority may fight against having it removed. I'm referring to the whole thing of mentoring, spiritual exercises, spiritual formation, emerging church and lectio divina and these may not be introduced by the specific mame I mentioned and are slid in with a cover name that sounds kosher.

I'm not mentioning my main concern here as this thread is this letter sent out by Lois K..

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Naomi,

All I can say is an old saying, "where there is smoke there is fire". Wrongs are a continuous battle in this old world and right is losing out every where it looks like and we sure don't need it in the churches.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Q.E.D.]

If this is it, Looks like it is still there:

Lectio Divina for Groups Pioneer Memorial Church Berrien Springs Michigan

This method of praying Scripture dates clear back to the Middle Ages (or before). Used mostly by monks of the Benedictine order, it has recently gained popularity among Protestants. It has been used in private as well as by youth groups and congregations.

Lectio divina (Latin for “divine reading”) is comprised of four activities: reading God’s Word (lectio), meditating on what it is saying to you (meditatio), speaking or praying to God about what it means in your life today (oratio), and contemplating or simply enjoying the presence of God (contemplatio).

Before beginning tell your group:

• Anyone may “pass” at any time in the group sharing process.

• Some things may be too personal to share in a group.

• Some may not have anything to share. That’s okay. You don’t have to produce “results.” Spending time quietly with God is a valuable experience just in itself, whether or not we gain any new or deep insights.

• The only “goal” of lectio divina is to spend time with God by reflecting on His Word.

Listening for Christ’s Still Small Voice through His Word

1. Tell the group: Listen closely as a passage from God’s Word is read and then read again a second time. Trust that the Spirit of Jesus is speaking to you through His word as it is read. Listen for a word or phrase that speaks to you in some way, one that seems to be meant for you today. For some of you it may stand out at once, for others there may only be a gentle, unexplainable tug toward some part of the passage. You don’t have to understand why. Just identify the part that stands out to you and hold it in your mind.

One person reads aloud (twice) the passage of Scripture, as the others listen for a word or phrase that speaks to their heart.

2. Tell the group: Now I want you to take the next minute or two to just silently repeat that word or phrase in your mind. Mull it over, memorize it, and make it fully yours.

Silence for 1-2 minutes. Each silently repeats or hears in their mind the word or phrase that has attracted them.

3. Tell the group: Let’s take the opportunity now to share with each other the words or phrases from this text that of stood out to us. Don’t tell us why, just simply share the word or phrase.

Share aloud the word or phrase that has attracted each person. Just a simple statement of one or a few words. No elaboration.

Meditating on Christ’s Presence in Our Lives

4. Tell the group: Now as the text is read again, I’d like you to reflect on the question, “To what situation in my life does this word or phrase speak?” When we’re done reading, we’ll give you two or three minutes of silence to meditate on how that word or phrase speaks to your life situation. Second reading of same passage by another person.

Silence for 2-3 minutes. Reflect on “To what situation in my life does this word or phrase speak?”

5. Tell the group: Now I’d like to give you an opportunity to briefly share with the rest of us what has been taking place in the quiet. What has god been saying to you or showing you?

Briefly share: “I hear God saying . . .” or “God is showing me that . . .”

Contemplating What Christ Invites Me to Do

6. Tell the group: We are going to read the passage one last time. This time I’d like you to ask God, “What is it you are inviting me to do or become today/this week through Your Word?” Third reading by still another person.

Silence for 2-3 minutes. Pray about “What do You want me to do or become today/this week?”

7. Ask the group: would anyone like to share their thoughts, impressions, or convictions? As we share this time, listen carefully to each other, especially the person on your right, so you can pray specifically for them at the close of our session.

Share aloud at somewhat greater length the results of each personal reflection.

8. Tell the group: Let’s go around the circle and each pray for the person on our right. You can pray for a specific need that has been shared or simply ask God to bless them in their spiritual walk. At the end of our prayer we’ll take just a minute or two to enjoy God’s company in silence.

Pray around the circle. End your prayer with a minute or two of silence.

[Gibs]

QED,

That looks like what is referred to and along with the rest of it it don't look good to me. It has had a SDA spin put to it but it to me is the beginning of getting deep in the emerging church stuff.

Again for me I see it as a stumbling block hard to remove that maybe even the majority may fight against having it removed. I'm referring to the whole thing of mentoring, spiritual exercises, spiritual formation, emerging church and lectio divina and these may not be introduced by the specific mame I mentioned and are slid in with a cover name that sounds kosher.

I must not be of it and will not, but each his own. It is something not needed and is a lead away.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

I still totally fail to see how that could do anything but lead to a closer relationship with God, a better understanding of scripture and a closer walk with your fellow christians in that understanding and relationship.

[Overaged]

I still totally fail to see how that could do anything but lead to a closer relationship with God, a better understanding of scripture and a closer walk with your fellow christians in that understanding and relationship.

So true EC! I agree 110%. The great hub bub made by Gibs and a few others over, well, lets just pick "emerging church," (for one example),is so useless and so false.

Personally; I am grateful for the emerging church, you know, the one that has been emerging out of the dark ages and into something like that hand in the night that I talked about in another thread. Gibs is refusing to provide evidence; he seems to prefer superstitious and unproven allegations which are a blight to everyone coming in contact with it.

[John317]

OK, thanks for the reply, Gibs. I would hate to see that stuff coming into our churches. We don't have it here at our two local churches in Southeastern California.

It may be at the Hill Church and the University Church in Loma Linda. I grew up in those churches and hope & pray it isn't there.

[John317]

...Personally; I am grateful for the emerging church, you know, the one that has been emerging out of the dark ages and into something like that hand in the night....

What "emerging church" do you refer to?

[Overaged]

Read my post again please - a little slower this time.

[Overaged]

It is always ultimately the ones in the pews who need to determine if the one speaking the message is ordained of God. Sure many are ordained of men but that is not who should be teaching. God, Jesus Christ in His church the speaker must be ordained of Him. When the speaker isn't then at that time he is speaking it is not Jesus Christ's church as He cannot be present there. He has made it clear He MUST be worshipped in Spirit and in Truth.

[ClubV12]

I suspect Overaged is referring to the Seventh-day Adventist church "emerging" from the Millerite movement.

Where some see error overtaking good at a rapid pace, I see folks moving closer to God. Ellen White says that if we wait to see a revival in the church we will be disappointed, it won't happen. Now some will twist that counsel as a sure sign we are "called out", I see it as a sure sign we should stay put! The church WILL appear as about to fall, we KNOW that will be the case, but it does not fall. We KNOW one delusion after another will come in, we have seen for DECADES folks attempting to identify the "Omega Apostasy". I'm not looking for that or any other error now. I'm totally focused on the truth, THAT is the only way we will see the error in whatever form it comes. Most WILL be deceived, MOST will be shaken out and not even realize they are under delusion. They will think they are doing the work of God within the church. There will APPEAR to be a revival, but it will be counterfit, a part of the shaking, and most won't even realize it.

The REAL revival will be a primitive form of Godliness WITHIN the church and I plan to be among that small group giving the straight testimony. Sitting in the pew, conversing in the lobby, speaking up in Sabbath school class, at prayer meeting. I expect most will not bear it, but I will not leave unless I am forced out. Even then, I will support the church, because in due time, I will need to go back to join those few who survived the shaking.

And if the "real" shaking, not this pseudo shaking so many say is going on now, when it comes AFTER my time, I will not be disappointed. Many have come and gone and it still hasn't happened yet, I'm not that special. Maybe it will happen in my time, maybe not, I will wait upon the Lord and stay the course. I am NOT looking to others for my standard, I am looking to the blue print God has given us, realizing few will actually find it. I will search for it as for hidden treasure. Very seriously search for it, not some half way attempt to "fit in".

[ClubV12]

The "closed door" doctrine. Remember that one? Big controversy over that, it's really quite simple, but man tends to make a mountain out of mole hill over it.

There really WAS a "closed door" event!!! Many made that final decision following the Great Disapointment and closed the door forever to their salvation. The error was in thinking that the door was close for all, at that time, and would never open again. That was not the case, it WAS closed for many, it WAS a great event at that time. Life and death decisions were made overnight for thousands.

This is the same way I see the shaking, it has been going on for some time, it will always be going on for many. But this is not "thee" shaking that results from "thee" straight testimony delivered to the people of God. That time is not yet, and yet, it is going on, here and there. Just as the shaking is going on, here and there, has been for awhile, will continue.

To say the shaking time is NOW is misleading, wait for it. Deliver the straight testimony when and where you can, CAREFULLY, with some thought, with some love, to those few who will listen. In time, ALL will hear it in a most pronounced way, life and death decisions will have to be made "over night", in a very short time frame. That time is not yet,,,, wait for it. Here is the patience of the Saints.

[Overaged]

I suspect Overaged is referring to the Seventh-day Adventist church "emerging" from the Millerite movement.

Where some see error overtaking good at a rapid pace, I see folks moving closer to God.

Alright!! Yes!

[Overaged]

The "closed door" doctrine. Remember that one? Big controversy over that, it's really quite simple, but man tends to make a mountain out of mole hill over it.

There really WAS a "closed door" event!!!