A Must Read Letter That Just Came In To Me

[ClubV12]

I agree with your concept of the "open door" Overaged, I like that.

This whole "closed door" is a favorite of anti-Adventists misapplying the facts of the case. I use it as an example of how easy it is to confuse principles and examples and twist them into something they are not.

Like the history of tongues in the Adventist church. Yes, an "unknown tongue" which no man could understand. Confirmed as a message from the Lord by Ellen White. SHE did not speak in tongues, another well respected pioneer DID! It was a direct answer to a serious question offered to God in prayer. An interpretation immediately followed.

[Overaged]

I agree with your concept of the "open door" Overaged, I like that.

This whole "closed door" is a favorite of anti-Adventists misapplying the facts of the case. I use it as an example of how easy it is to confuse principles and examples and twist them into something they are not.

Conversely; and all too often, some Adventists help them to come to such conclusions - the shut door is a favorite weapon for Adventist zealots to club people with.

[Gibs]

Overaged,

What is needed is for each and every one to open the door to the truth and true doctrine and close the door to the false and evil that will come in when you let it.

Are you going to open the door to what QED found and posted on page 9 of the comments here?

I sure am going to close it and tight here.

Why be angry with me or any one trying to show the incoming false and really occult and from where protestantism came out of. Why go back into that old wallow?

What is brought out is one of the "spiritual exercises" and that is just one piece of the "emerging church" falling. Yes it's a falling back, let's stop it if at all possible.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

QED has shown us nothing more than you have. When are you going to produce some actual proof for your allegations? I will open the door to truth; not allegations.

And incase you have not heard; Jesus is the truth.

The Bible lists only ONE accuser of the brethren. You walk a very thin line on this issue.

[Gibs]

Occupie what?

What was shown is a posting on their website and you can go there and read it if you like, it is there and I have a copy that was sent to me.

For sure Jesus is the Truth and we have no need for any of those spiritual exercises that are of the fallen long ago and proven so. We have no need of any of their exercises weaved in. Do not imbibe it. When His Spirit dwells within all those things are shunned and put out.

That is the Divine Nature in us and without it we fall. It is our only hope of Glory. This was the message of Paul to the Gentiles and so it no longer is a mystery,

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

And is repeated again here,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

Gibs,

If you could, please point by point break down the wrongs of these things.

reading God’s Word (lectio)

meditating on what it is saying to you (meditatio)

speaking or praying to God about what it means in your life today (oratio)

contemplating or simply enjoying the presence of God (contemplatio).

Please explain for me how these 4 things will take people away from God

[Gibs]

First I ask of you explain to me the need of it. There is none. He is Spirit and He dwells in me and I commune with Him continually. He is my all in all in all things. He is my life and I have no disire outside of His will for me.

I don't need spiritual exercises of wherever it is from. What it is it is an entering wedge that needs put out. It's getting deeper into emerging church and we or at least I am not one with the so called churches of the world and especially of the papacy and Benedictine monks.

I've put it away from me and will be no part of it. I can only admonish each to do his homework on this and more that is the teaching today in the church structure.

I have been waiting to hear how if any progress has been made by Ted Wilson on these very things as I know a couple months ago he had great condern of this.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Emptycross, your questions remind of a recent discussion on meditation, good or bad?

The path of error lies close to the path of truth. It will become increasingly difficult to discern between the two. Those who are not true followers of Christ will be not be able to, it's as simple as that. Those who ARE true followers of Christ will also have great difficulty in separating the path of error from the path of truth. The discernment will require much prayer and guidance based on a knowledge of the word, but more dependant on a living connection with Him in our life. The path will become SO confusing even the very elect would be deceived if possible.

Now once we SEE and UNDERSTAND where the two paths lay, the path of error will become SO obvious we will wonder how we could have posssibly mistaken it for the path of truth!

Some paths are easy to discern, no great mental stress is required, others are considerably more difficult.

As for ME, I won't even go near a path that COULD lead to confusion, maybe it will, maybe it won't. I won't risk it by potentially putting my feet ON that path, lest I be led astray. In that regard, I will give the path of "meditation" a wide berth, I won't go near it, lest I be drawn into some snare that awaits, hidden. You will not find me standing by the path, wondering and talking about it, "Is it safe?". The fact were even having the conversation about the safety of the path is a "red flag", to which my response is, "I'm outta here!" Drop the walking stick and step away from that path!! :)

[M. T. Cross]

First I ask of you explain to me the need of it. There is none. He is Spirit and He dwells in me and I commune with Him continually. He is my all in all in all things. He is my life and I have no disire outside of His will for me.

I don't need spiritual exercises of wherever it is from. What it is it is an entering wedge that needs put out. It's getting deeper into emerging church and we or at least I am not one with the so called churches of the world and especially of the papacy and Benedictine monks.

I've put it away from me and will be no part of it. I can only admonish each to do his homework on this and more that is the teaching today in the church structure.

I have been waiting to hear how if any progress has been made by Ted Wilson on these very things as I know a couple months ago he had great condern of this.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

Only problem with what you say is that the Scriptures tell Christians to meditate

[M. T. Cross]

Only problem with what you say is that the Scriptures tell Christians to meditate

[Gibs]

For sure and He and His Word is my meditation all day long and a lot in my dreams and the times I wake up in the night.

And I will to do it His Way Only. The Bible teaches it so abundantly and to go to men for it? Here is just one,

Ps 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.

Ps 119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.

Ps 119:101 ¶ I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.

Ps 119:102 ¶ I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me.

Ps 119:103 ¶ How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!

Ps 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Ps 119:105 ¶ NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

Who said anything about going to men for it

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

Only problem with what you say is that the Scriptures tell Christians to meditate

Are you sure your real name ain't Robert?

[M. T. Cross]

Are you sure your real name ain't Robert?

100% sure LOL

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Are you sure your real name ain't Robert?

100% sure LOL

Well - I will check with Robert and make sure.

[Gibs]

The letter posted is something each should look into for them selves. I suppose what I see it boils down to what you are inclined to be "one" with.

Very slippery is the deceptions Satan has conjured to come in and a man of himself has no defense to discern it. Don't be satisfied until the Holy Spirit settles you into the truth of anything.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Plus did you notice "He will shew you things to come."

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

Gibs,

If you could, please point by point break down the wrongs of these things.

reading God’s Word (lectio)

meditating on what it is saying to you (meditatio)

speaking or praying to God about what it means in your life today (oratio)

contemplating or simply enjoying the presence of God (contemplatio).

Please explain for me how these 4 things will take people away from God

[miz3]

I just finished reading the OP letter. I have not read all the posts after that though. I don't think it matters because I want to comment on the Letter itself.

1. Spiritual Formation/all of its sisters/brothers is not Biblical in any way shape or form.

2. The author of the Letter kept saying that SF was not Biblical but then offered no Biblical support to demonstrate that. Instead all their support against SF came from Ellen White.

Once again SDA Church .org demonstrates that it views Ellen White and her writings as superior to the Bible. She is the last word and the very heart and center of the Letter's appeal to the SDA Leadership.

Thus, once again SDA Church .org says that it is a Bible and Bible only Church but the Letter demonstrates that this is not true.

The SDA Church .org is in fact an Ellen White/her writings Church .org. Ellen White and her writings are the supreme authority of the SDA Church .org.

3. This is what the Bible says:

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,

hallowed be your name,

10 your kingdom come,

your will be done

on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us today our daily bread.

12 Forgive us our debts,

as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation,

but deliver us from the evil one."

Matthew 6:5-13.

I think verse seven clearly spikes SF/any other meditative pagan states effectively.

NO BABBLING REPETITIVE GARBAGE.

Jesus Christ, Himself, tells in verses nine to thirteen just how we should pray.

a. We are to pray to the Father who alone is Holy.

b. We are to pray that God and His Kingdom will come into our lives and everywhere.

c. We are to pray that God's Will be done (as opposed to our will be done).

d. We are to ask God to take care of all our needs be they Spiritual, Psychological, emotional, tangible, etc. according to God's will (not our will). We are to ask for in addition for the ability to fully Trust God and all His Ways and that we will be patient and wait for Him to tell us what to do (rather than strike out on our own).

e. We are to ask for forgiveness for our sins. This means asking God to give us Victory over very specific issues (as opposed to some mealy mouthed generality).

f. We are to ask God to lead us not into temptation which means we are to plead with God to keep us away from the sources of sin as well as to keep our minds directed on Him. It also means that we to ask God to make wall around so that evil cannot penetrate and reach us.

g. We are to ask for deliverance against all evil because we have no other defense against evil than God Himself.

h. It does not say this in this particular text but we must always praise God (be specific) for all His Blessings to us. Thank Him profusely.

Remember God does it all, you are able to do absolutely nothing without Him (see John 15:5).

4. This text alone sinks SF/all other meditation junk into the swill hole of Hell.

Christians who truly belong to God wherever they are should have zero to do with this mumbo jumbo gibberish.

5. I remain ashamed and deeply disappointed that this Letter did not effectively attack this SF/etc. junk from the Bible. Instead they attacked it from a useless SDA Church .org point of view (via Ellen White and the Church .org structure). Such parochial remedies are both weak and vapid.

The only sure way to combat such evil junk is to use the Bible and the Bible only.

Did the SDA Chruch .org do this? NO! NO! NO!

Shame on them.

[M. T. Cross]

That in itself is repetitive.

My pagan prayers are pretty short, sweet and to the point.

[Guest]

That in itself is repetitive.

My pagan prayers are pretty short, sweet and to the point.

Who do you pray to, if I may be so bold? Are you really a pagan, or are you just saying that?

[ClubV12]

The devil has a counterfit for the meditation the bible speaks of and therein lays the problem.

It's important to differentiate between the path or error that mediation can represent today. Eastern religion, mystcism and all that comes with it. A potentially serious problem. Serious enough, I wouldn't use the term "meditation" without being very clear just exactly what that means to any given person. I wouldn't recommend it at all on a public forum because you can't be sure in which way it will be taken. Likewise, I wouldn't recommend it in a church setting for the same reason. Sad but true, it's another "good thing" the devil has twisted into a potentially "bad thing". Prayer itself could be considered meditation.

The same reasoning applies to much of this letter. Any given component or issue that is addressed could be defined and discussed as a "good thing" WHEN properly understood. The danger is, it brings the path of truth to close to the path of error. It will surely be a snare to some.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

You are so right as it must be the meditation the Bible speaks of, of Him and His Word to us and His Great Love and Mercy for us. To learn from His Spirit the Deep things He has for us.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[phkrause]

Gibs,

If you could, please point by point break down the wrongs of these things.

reading God’s Word (lectio)

meditating on what it is saying to you (meditatio)

speaking or praying to God about what it means in your life today (oratio)

contemplating or simply enjoying the presence of God (contemplatio).

Please explain for me how these 4 things will take people away from God

Excellent, excellent points EC

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

First I ask of you explain to me the need of it. There is none. He is Spirit and He dwells in me and I commune with Him continually. He is my all in all in all things. He is my life and I have no disire outside of His will for me.

I don't need spiritual exercises of wherever it is from. What it is it is an entering wedge that needs put out. It's getting deeper into emerging church and we or at least I am not one with the so called churches of the world and especially of the papacy and Benedictine monks.

I've put it away from me and will be no part of it. I can only admonish each to do his homework on this and more that is the teaching today in the church structure.

I have been waiting to hear how if any progress has been made by Ted Wilson on these very things as I know a couple months ago he had great condern of this.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

**sigh** more answering questions with questions.

Fine.

Let me break this down

A.

Quote:

reading God’s Word (lectio)

Whatever your religion this is a good thing. Reading your sacred writings leads to further understanding of the message and of your beliefs. I am fairly sure that we can agree on that

B

Quote:

meditating on what it is saying to you (meditatio)

Sitting with the words you have read. There are a million different forms of meditation. It can be as simple as shutting out all outside influence, noise, distraction and letting those words resonate with you.

Finding the silence within so that you can actually "hear" the Divine

C

Quote:

speaking or praying to God about what it means in your life today (oratio)

Bringing your thoughts to the Divine and inviting it into your life that you may live the words, live the message, BE THE LIGHT. The result btw is infinatly more effective as a testimony than all the door to door, outreach etc ever could hope to be.

D

Quote:

contemplating or simply enjoying the presence of God (contemplatio).

So simply experiencing first hand the sacred, experiencing the holy, experiencing what it is to be connected to your God. This is fullfillment.

Really I think in the end you probably only have an issue with B right? The meditation. I guarantee if you have ever gotten caught up in deep deep prayer - you have meditated or been in a meditative state. Just as Jesus was when he went to the wilderness and fasted. That is extreme meditation.

Again EC, great questions, and great answers.

I see no problem with what you've asked and definitely no problem with your answers.