A Must Read Letter That Just Came In To Me

[M. T. Cross]

Overaged,

Lois Kind to be a truthful and reputable person fighting the "good" fight.

Fighting the good fight huh.

As that phrase makes me all sorts of colours of red in rage I am gonna type this out really slowly, and probably have to rephrase it a number of times because of the language filter.

See on this site, an Adventist site, I see people that have gone more the way of science and can't identify as an SDA anymore, there are a couple Atheists, at least one so called pagan and members of other Christian denominations. I have yet to see a post by any of those (us) encouraging people to LEAVE the SDA church. We debate and sometimes argue, we stand up for what we have found to be the truth, but again - happy to let the Adventists be Adventists all they want. Its more about sharing ideas and thoughts, sometimes a bit heatedly I admit. What we all have in common is that we are seeking truth. Are we fighting the "bad fight"?

Lets look at the "good" fight. Its discriminitory, its fueled by ignorance and hate. I love how pagans get called superstitious when its people that write letters like this that are the ones filled with fear and superstition. There is a reason questions like the one I asked earlier in this thread do not get answered. Its because people that live under this kind of ignorance and misunderstanding don't have the first clue about the things they believe to be wrong. I know this first hand because I was raised by someone that would have been all over making sure that letter was spread about. This so called good fight has caused the death of millions of people over history, this good fight has torn apart families and destroyed lives.All out of ignorance and fear.

You have this great fear of Catholics and Pagans. I will hand you that you probably know something about Catholics as it seems to be an obsession of a lot of SDA's.

But please Gibs, tell me one factual thing about any of the many pagan religions and anything factual about Heathens. Other than that they don't worship your god. Tell me how they conduct their lives, tell me something factual about their spiritual motivations, one thing factual about how they are so very very bad and are fighting the BAD fight.

[Gibs]

Overaged,

It's fine for you to stay in the SDA sructure and a supporter of it same as it is for catholics to support theirs or Atheists to support their view and on and on. That is our God given freedom.

At the same time we are all to be witnesses for what we see to be the way. But none have to put our view as the way they have to take. I don't have to take yours and you don't have to take mine but you and I both have the right to do our view to others.

It's called libery and that is one of the quallities of a true Christian that His Spirit is in.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

It declares liberty for all.

EGW also maybe said one that you may not like, "agitate, agitate, agitate."

That of course is reference to topics of discussion not people.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

EGW also maybe said one that you may not like, "agitate, agitate, agitate."

It does seem that one particular poster - is just that. Agitated. It seems that others are agitating him. Perhaps it's a message from God.

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

EGW also maybe said one that you may not like, "agitate, agitate, agitate."

It does seem that one particular poster - is just that. Agitated. It seems that others are agitating him. Perhaps it's a message from God.

I'm agitated, but I highly doubt its God agitating me.

[Gibs]

Please, let's just stick with the subject of discussion and that is the only agitation a discussion that is intended by me.

I realize some things to us in discussion is not sometimes the most pleasant.

We must all be always ready to investigate all things. Sometimes it isn't to our liking to do.

I do know our Christian Unity is in Jesus Christ, all being one in Him has to be the answer.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

Overaged,

I don't have to take yours and you don't have to take mine but you and I both have the right to do our view to others.

It's called libery and that is one of the quallities of a true Christian that His Spirit is in.

Right now Gibs; no one is asking you to. And, of course, you have this "right," but what you don't have a right to do is to make public accusations against ANY church, Adventist or otherwise, without atleast offering some intelligent evidence other than your say so. So to be clear; you are not being asked to do anything here except to give evidence of what you accuse us of.

[Woody]

Quote:

We must all be always ready to investigate all things.

I see no reason to investigate that which does not pass the smell test. I would rather spend a thoughtful hour each day on the life of Christ - than this anti-church garbage.

[Overaged]

Quote:

EGW also maybe said one that you may not like, "agitate, agitate, agitate."

It does seem that one particular poster - is just that. Agitated. It seems that others are agitating him. Perhaps it's a message from God.

Might be an idea to just ask this "one poster" how they feel; instead of saying how they feel...just sayin. Forums make it easy to say how someone is "really" feeling without us actually knowing.

[Woody]

It doesn't much matter whether he is or not.

As I stated - "it seems".

[Overaged]

Quote:

We must all be always ready to investigate all things.

I see no reason to investigate that which does not pass the smell test. I would rather spend a thoughtful hour each day on the life of Christ - than this anti-church garbage.

Couldn't have said it better myself Woody! Well spoken my friend!!

I HAVE A HIGH FIVE WITH YOUR NAME ON IT!

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

We must all be always ready to investigate all things.

I see no reason to investigate that which does not pass the smell test. I would rather spend a thoughtful hour each day on the life of Christ - than this anti-church garbage.

Me too and I am not even a member of that church or what most would call a Christian

[Overaged]

It doesn't much matter whether he is or not.

As I stated - "it seems".

Well, OK. If it "doesn't matter;" then it shouldn't "seem." LOL. Boy, that's a good play on words. But I will say, I wouldn't blame anyone for being upset with all this "anti-church garbage." It is garbage and has nothing to do with the gospel; nor is it even remotely related to "being one" with one another, (or with Jesus), as Gibs keeps saying..

[Woody]

Okay Overaged.

While it doesn't matter - it still does seem.

Seeming has nothing to do with reality. It just seems.

However - seeming is a good thing to know about if you are the one who is seeming.

Hope this is as clear as mud.

Because so far in this thread it 'seems' that the smell of garbage is prevalant.

[Overaged]

LOL, you bet. Clear as mud. Time to unsubscribe from this one..

[Woody]

Overaged - is "seems" to me that you need to do your laundry. Get with it brother. The smell is overwhelming overaged and over-ripe.

[Overaged]

[Gibs]

I believe the core of the issue it has gotten into here is, who are we "one" with? Are not each of His True Members to be and must be "one" with Him and of Him to be His. And then is this not also true of "His" Church, that it is only one with Him, of Him and for Him Only?

To then bring in some other teachings from out of the world brings in a "leaven" that is not of Him. Why would His Church need anyting from out of the ones proven to be false? We are counciled to "be ye separate." Why? Because a little "leaven" leavens the whole lump.

2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

Ga 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

His very own TRUE CHURCH verily has the best way and teaching, teacher of them all, Jesus Christ and Him only. His Word only. By His Spirit only and none others must not be allowed to "leaven" the Lump, His Church.

He who speaks to His Church Must Be Sent of Him, that is Ordained of Him, not of any Men. It is His Church, His Organization and He only is it's Head. He needs mo help in ordaining who to send or in filling the ones He sends with His Spirit Preaching His Word and Truth in all they utter.

But men step in and send one of theirs and at that point what has happened to His Church? Men want a "visible" head not realizing they have stepped in over the rightful invisible Head whom it truly is only His and His only right.

When it gets to the place where this situation then cannot be righted we have a problem similar to what the reformed so called churches came out of all over again. So now what must be done?

There's just one thing brothers and sisters that can be done. Heed the call.

Rev 18:4.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

Not everything from other churches is "leaven;" and we are still waiting for you to prove what you said about Walla Walla

[Gibs]

Overaged,

I had told you I myself am far from Walla Walla, I'm in Ohio. But I found this you may look at if you care too. I am not going to do any partictular searching to find out more but I know you can.

Spiritual Formation - Omega of Apostasy?

... president of Walla ... The first is a variation of an ancient Christian method called lectio divina ... Trans-European Division of the Seventh-day Adventist ...

http://sdaomega.files.wordpress.com/2008...sy-article1.pdf

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

Gibs; I don't get it. All you did was post some more of the same stuff that you are already at a loss to explain. There is absolutely nothing in this link to prove what you have accused is going on at Walla Walla. I don't live near there either; but that's not an excuse for refusing to back up accusations you have made quite publicly. We have a right to see the evidence, if you are to be taken as even half-way credible here.

[Gibs]

Overaged,

Did you not read this and tons more from what was posted there from them.

"Spiritual formation is not a new idea or concept, and "a lot of Protestants are in the same boat--we are rediscovering

it," says Dr. Jon Dybdahl, president of Walla Walla College, an Adventist institution in Washington State. And, he

adds, the Adventist Church has some work to do."

Jon Dybdahl is he not the president of the college there?

What on earth more do you or anyone need?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

Gibs; that is simply an allegation made by the article you refer to. There is no proof of this allegation. Likewise; you offer no proof. We will continue to wait for evidence that proves those allegations.

[Gibs]

Ask Dr. Jon Dybdahl as he said it if it is an allegation.

"Spiritual formation is not a new idea or concept, and "a lot of Protestants are in the same boat--we are rediscovering

it," says Dr. Jon Dybdahl, president of Walla Walla College, an Adventist institution in Washington State. And, he

adds, the Adventist Church has some work to do."

It means, we as SDA's have joined in with "Spiritual formation is not a new idea or concept, and "a lot of Protestants are in the same boat--we are rediscovering it," .

Man I got out of that boat!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

Do you believe everything you find on the internet? All you have here is an internet article which makes a claim, or an allegation. Said claim remains unproven. Show us official church writings which reflect that your allegations are true. Right now, you just have deluded internet fodder; and to pass that on to others is spreading hatred and lies. We make Satan very happy when we proffer this type of garbage to others under the guise of truth. You misstate our church's official church doctrine and practice, to better lend credence to your ancient darkness, which you call new light.

It appears that it is time for us to give you a warning. I hope you take it in the spirit it is intended:

Quote:

1-3. False Accuser.--Those who honor God and keep His commandments are subject to the accusations of Satan. The enemy works with all his energy to lead persons into sin. Then he pleads that on account of their past sins, he should be allowed to exercise his hellish cruelty on them as his own subjects. Of this work Zechariah has written. "And he shewed me Joshua the high priest"--a representative of the people who keep the commandments of God--"standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him." {4BC 1178.2}

Christ is our High Priest. Satan stands before Him night and day as an accuser of the brethren. With his masterly power he presents every objectionable feature of character as sufficient reason for the withdrawal of Christ's protecting power, thus allowing Satan to discourage and destroy those whom he has caused to sin. But Christ has made atonement for every sinner. Can we by faith hear our Advocate saying, "The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?" {4BC 1178.3}

"Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments." Thus sinners appear before the enemy who by his masterly, deceptive power has led them away from allegiance to God. With garments of sin and shame the enemy clothes those who have been overpowered by his temptations, and then he declares that it is unfair for Christ to be their Light, their Defender (MS 125, 1901). {4BC 1178.4}

Brother Gibs; I do not want the "filthy garments" of Satan's accusations against the church; I want no part of the garments of sin and shame that you present here. If you are going to say that I am not "awake;" because of this; then so be it. You have drawn the line in the sand, not me.

As far as I am concerned; you should always be welcome here, or in the church, should you choose to go again, and i hope you will allow the Spirit to speak to you through His Word about your reasoning on this issue...Please don't feel you are not welcome here, you definitely are. But don't expect to come to an Adventist forum or church with your accusations, and for those of us who care, to not say anything; or to not question what you bring us.

You have not answered me yet, but would you discuss with me how Jesus treated erring Church members, if I were to start the discussion in another thread? maybe this would be something we could have some good fellowship/discussion with? Let me know. I am adding you to my prayer list; I am praying that you will learn the art of being the eagle in Isa 40:31 The accusations you bring us will only make you tired and discouraged, if they have not already; and it will get worse for you; I know this from personal experience. And I know Isa 40:31 from personal experience too. It is the point of my prayer for you...May God bless you & keep you & make His face to shine upon you.

[Gibs]

Overaged,

You don't get it yet, I am not making any accusations, those things are posted on their site, it is what they say, not me. The same with the posted material from the Pioneer Memorial church.. You need to see who is telling you what THEY are doing and what THEY ARE SAYING! It is them, from the horses mouth.

I've said before,it you like it, go with it, but for me, I will not.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.