SECC gives ordination credentials to men and women pastors

[doug yowell]

I have always thought it a little odd the way we so often try to let "culture" determine our beliefs, and then we call it "Biblical." Seems a little backwards to me.

Yes,and in this case, it is the secular culture that is correcting the church culture. The overwhelming majority of the "cultures"of the Church (and most religions for that matter)still determine that men are to be the spiritual leaders. The appeal to the alleged cultural change is limited primarily to what the secular world has become not what the church has become.It is a clandestine way of voluntarily combining church and state.

[doug yowell]

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

That is simply incorrect. The word is diakonos. It is the word from which we derive the English word deacon. And it is used with gender distinction - in reference to Phoebe it is used in its feminine form. And it is indeed used as a church office or position.

This whole chapter of Rom 16 chiefly consists of commendations and salutations of a number of different people, Phoebe included. certainly Phobe is not distinuished in any way as being above the others, as in 'status" or "position." There is no hint in any of the salutations or commendations to all those people addressed in Rom 16, about "Status" or "leadership." The work of Priscilla and Aquila, in risking their lives to help Paul would make the "servant" role of Phobe pale in comparison...nothin about leadership for them either.

A quote from Mathew Henry's commentary:

Quote:

1. He gives a very good character of her. (1.) As a sister to Paul: Phebe our sister; not in nature, but in grace; not in affinity or consanguinity, but in pure Christianity: his own sister in the faith of Christ, loving Paul, and beloved of him, with a pure and chaste and spiritual love, as a sister; for there is neither male nor female, but all are one in Christ Jesus, Gal_3:28. Both Christ and his apostles had some of their best friends among the devout (and upon that account honourable) women. (2.) As a servant to the church at Cenchrea: diakonon, a servant by office, a stated servant, not to preach the word (that was forbidden to women), but in acts of charity and hospitality. Some think she was one of the widows that ministered to the sick and were taken into the church's number, 1Ti_5:9. But those were old and poor, whereas Phebe seems to have been a person of some account; and yet it was no disparagement to her to be a servant to the church.

NT word studies are all Greek to me.As you and MH point out,context,as in English, gives the meaning.I use my Strong's and my Nestle-Marshall to look up what the Bible actually says. Since even Greek words can mean different things according to context, the simple Bible translations should be sufficient to convey God's truth about anything.Paul warns about "doting about questions and strifes of words." I'm guessing that Mathew Henry knew his Greek pretty well.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

The only reason the Sanctuary system was set up in Israel was because of the degradedness of the people. Even towards the end before the babylonian captivity it is recorded that the people had still not turned to the Lord with all their heart.

When the people came out of slavery the Lord gave instructions but He did not take everything away from them, such as multiple wives.

Given those facts, I don't believe the priesthood of the Sanctuary system can be used as any kind of criteria as to God's intent for women.

Given that many of the surrounding pagan religions had women priests(clergy)God could have easily instituted a worship system that also reflected the degraded cultures of the day, but He didn't.

[teresaq]

Servant/leader "He that wishes to be greatest among you..." Most leaders seem to assume that the word leader is a synonym for the word servant. This misunderstanding of the function of roles makes the conversation that much more difficult to carry on. I blame mostly the men for misusing the role of leaders by not being the servant part.

[teresaq]

This whole chapter of Rom 16 chiefly consists of commendations and salutations of a number of different people, Phoebe included. certainly Phobe is not distinuished in any way as being above the others, as in 'status" or "position." There is no hint in any of the salutations or commendations to all those people addressed in Rom 16, about "Status" or "leadership." The work of Priscilla and Aquila, in risking their lives to help Paul would make the "servant" role of Phobe pale in comparison...nothin about leadership for them either.

[olger]

About Aquilla & Priscilla, having a gathering in their house makes them "hospitable" which is a great quality.

To read more into that requires lots of assumptions.

rejoice always,

G

[olger]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

I have always thought it a little odd the way we so often try to let "culture" determine our beliefs, and then we call it "Biblical." Seems a little backwards to me.

Yes,and in this case, it is the secular culture that is correcting the church culture. The overwhelming majority of the "cultures"of the Church (and most religions for that matter)still determine that men are to be the spiritual leaders. The appeal to the alleged cultural change is limited primarily to what the secular world has become not what the church has become.It is a clandestine way of voluntarily combining church and state.

That is a good point,

G

[teresaq]

About Aquilla & Priscilla, having a gathering in their house makes them "hospitable" which is a great quality.

To read more into that requires lots of assumptions.

[teresaq]

I have always thought it a little odd the way we so often try to let "culture" determine our beliefs, and then we call it "Biblical." Seems a little backwards to me.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

This whole chapter of Rom 16 chiefly consists of commendations and salutations of a number of different people, Phoebe included. certainly Phobe is not distinuished in any way as being above the others, as in 'status" or "position." There is no hint in any of the salutations or commendations to all those people addressed in Rom 16, about "Status" or "leadership." The work of Priscilla and Aquila, in risking their lives to help Paul would make the "servant" role of Phobe pale in comparison...nothin about leadership for them either.

Really? Hmmm, Rom 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: Rom 16:5 Likewise [greet] the church that is in their house. doesn't make them "leaders"? How about the original meaning of the word "helpers" in verse 3?

"Word studies" can get one lost fast when they are allowed to lead one away from the obvious and stated context of a given passage. In this case, Rom 16...the plain fact is that the word "leader" is neither used, nor implied with anyone in this Bible passage. You can't say "must mean" in place of does mean.

[Overaged]

I blame mostly the men for misusing the role of leaders by not being the servant part.

[Overaged]

It also creates some real problems for Catholic history. Now Phoebe is the first Bishop of Rome, appointed by a man who had never been there before but had the authority to select bishops wherever and whenever he chose. Was her Given his selection of Phoebe over Priscilla and Aquilla, and Andronicus and Junia "who were of note among the apostles" one wonders how Peter could have gotten his foot in the door? Paul clearly notes that she had been a "prostatis" of himself. You are suggesting that she had exercised a leadership role over Paul. Words interpreted out of the context in which they are used can mean anything one wants them to mean. I ain't buying that Phoebe was Paul's spiritual leader or the first intended bishop of Rome.

LOL; well said.

[Overaged]

Either that or the "good ole boy" network trying to maintain their culture.

Thats not very enlightening, but thanks anyway.

[CyberGuy]

Columbia Union Executive Committee Calls Special Constituency Meeting to Authorize Ordinations Without Regard to Gender

At its May 17 meeting, the Columbia Union Conference Executive Committee received a report from an ad hoc committee assigned to study how to affirm women in ministry.

After discussing the report (included below), the committee voted:

1. To recognize its responsibility to act morally and ethically by expressing unyielding commitment to ordain qualified persons to the gospel ministry without regard to gender, and

2. To call a special constituency meeting for the purpose of authorizing ordination to the gospel ministry without regard to gender, and

3. To set the meeting date for July 29, 2012, at 10 a.m., at a location to be determined in Maryland.

The committee approved the motion by a vote of 34-6, with one abstention.

“I believe this action represents our committee’s desire to move the mission forward, and we are calling this special session to facilitate a wider conversation,” said Dave Weigley, union president, explaining the need for input from the larger constituency.

To help members understand the committee’s perspective, leaders will publish a special July issue of the union paper, the Visitor. It will provide an in-depth review of biblical, historical and Spirit of Prophecy guidelines concerning the role of women in ministry.

Contact:

Celeste Ryan Blyden, Communication Director

Tel: (410) 997-3414 ; Email: cryan@columbiaunion.net

==========================================================

Report of the Columbia Union Ad Hoc Committee

Affirming Women in Ministry

Women in Seventh-day Adventist ministry are being affirmed through appreciation, recognition and representation at many levels in the church. This needs to be continued and increased. The most significant confirmation, however, requires the action of the Columbia Union Conference Executive Committee.

The affirmation of women in ministry in the Adventist church has both a moral and ethical imperative based on Scripture, church history and our diversity in unity.

SCRIPTURE: As a global church that values the authority of Scripture, we acknowledge that:

A. Scripture is clear that the end-time church is blessed with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on all believers (Joel 2:28-29 and Acts 2:17-18), with the priesthood of all believers (1 Peter 2:9) and through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit, both women and men preach God’s message (Fundamental Beliefs 14 and 17).

B. We are commanded to practice justice in our actions and relationships (Micah 6:8).

C. Everything contained in the Bible relates to the concepts represented in three words: Creation, Fall, and Redemption. This continuum provides the natural outline to the biblical story. In Eden, God created male and female as equals, both spiritually and relationally, and both are necessary to fully reflect the image of God (2 Corinthians 5:17-20).

D. Multiple times throughout Scripture God chose women to lead His people (Deborah, Esther, Hulda, Anna, four daughters of Philip, Phoebe, Junia etc.).

HISTORY: As a global church that values God’s leading in its history we acknowledge the following significant hallmarks:

A. The Seventh-day Adventist Church was co-founded by a woman, Ellen G. White, who remains an authoritative and guiding voice.

B. At the General Conference Session on December 5, 1881, a motion was made: “RESOLVED, That females possessing the necessary qualifications to fill that position, may, with perfect propriety, be set apart by ordination to the work of the Christian ministry.” Reported in Review and Herald, Dec. 20, 1881. It appears there was no record of any action taken.

C. Ellen White wrote in the July 9, 1895, Review & Herald, of a ministry that women, who gave themselves to it, should be set apart to this work by prayer and laying on of hands.

D. Willie White ordained deaconesses on January 6, 1900, in Australia. In 1975 an action was taken to ordain deaconesses at GC Session. In 1985 the action was reaffirmed and in 2010 it was recorded in the Church Manual. Ordination of women elders was approved in 1975 and reaffirmed at Annual Council in 1984.

E. The General Conference voted to authorize women to serve as pastors (1990).

F. Sixteen female pastors have already been ordained in China. These women are playing a significant role in the rapid church growth in their country and the Northern Asia Pacific Division of Seventh-day Adventists recognizes their ordinations.

DIVERSITY IN UNITY: As a global church that values diversity in unity:

A. We affirm that diversity in unity is part of the divine order for creation, redemption, restoration and for the church (Ephesians 4, John 17, 1 Corinthians 12:12).

B. We affirm God's leading in utilizing the talents of women for the mission of the church. ”When a great and decisive work is to be done, God chooses men and women to do this work, and it will feel the loss if the talents of both are not combined” (Evangelism, p. 469).

C. We understand that “there must be room to recognize the need for a legitimacy of local adaptation of policies and procedures that facilitate mission while not diminishing the worldwide identity, harmony and unity of the Church” (GC Spring Council 2012 116-12G Report).

D. We celebrate our diversity of culture, gender and ethnicity.

E. We recognize that “The distribution of authority and responsibility in the church, along with the recognition that ‘authority rests in membership,’ presents significant challenges in finding a balance between centralized authority (actions of the global church) and the more localized authority (actions of the constituency) in churches, conferences and unions.

“At the same time, the church has worked to preserve unity, the effect of church growth has enlarged the understanding of diversity and its rightful place in a worldwide community. To expect that every entity in the world church will look and function exactly like every other entity of its type may in itself become an impediment to mission. The development of structural designs in the history of the church indicates that unity must be built on a stronger foundation than uniformity” (GC Spring Council 2012 116-12G Report).

F. We acknowledge that “different elements of organizational authority are distributed among the various levels of denominational organization … decisions regarding the ordination of ministers are entrusted to the union conference/mission …” (NAD Working Policy B 05, 6).

G. We recognize that ordination is for the world church (NAD Working Policy L 40 and L 45 05). We further recognize that ordained ministers may not function outside the territory of the organization issuing their credential, unless invited to do so.

Note: All scriptural references are from the New King James Version (NKJV).

COMMENTS POLICY: The Columbia Union Conference Visitor encourages quality conversation and welcomes your thoughtful comments. All comments are subject to approval.

[CyberGuy]

Pacific Union Conference

Columbia Union Confernece

A German Union in Germany have all going to have special constituency meetings to vote on authorizing ordaining women.

This movement is spreading.

Who will be next?

[olger]

I'm in the Columbia Union, and most of the executive committee is very liberal. I know many of them personally.

That said, to defy the world church and institute oncoming congregationalism is a bold move - one that will likely have repercussions.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: olger

About Aquilla & Priscilla, having a gathering in their house makes them "hospitable" which is a great quality.

To read more into that requires lots of assumptions.

Quote:

Rom 16:5 Likewise [greet] the church that is in their house.

Oh, interesting. So you don't believe the church met at their house even tho the scriptures say it did?

You missed something there, Terese. As I said, the fact that they welcomed believers into their home indicates that they were hospitable. I like that.

This doesn't make them popes, priests, or apostles any more than Nancy & I welcoming fellow believers into our house. Paul singling the people who met in their home was his way of greeting each believer with encouragement. Nothing more.

rejoice always,

G

[Woody]

The Holy Spirit is moving across the land. God's will be done.

[olger]

Something is moving, all right.

[Woody]

God is in control. His Spirit is moving across the waters.

[Woody]

.

[teresaq]

Inapplicable to the context of the posts.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

Servant/leader "He that wishes to be greatest among you..." Most leaders seem to assume that the word leader is a synonym for the word servant. This misunderstanding of the function of roles makes the conversation that much more difficult to carry on. I blame mostly the men for misusing the role of leaders by not being the servant part.

This comes across to me as quite confused.

Are you saying leader does not equal servant?

Quote:

Most leaders seem to assume that the word leader is a synonym for the word servant. This misunderstanding of the function of roles

Or that leader does equal servant?

Quote:

I blame mostly the men for misusing the role of leaders by not being the servant part.

[teresaq]

I have always thought it a little odd the way we so often try to let "culture" determine our beliefs, and then we call it "Biblical." Seems a little backwards to me.