The Wrath of God

[Robert]

Hmmmm. . . So Robert, are you inferring that the song of Moses was only their faulty view of God...?

It's possible....I mean even Issiah said, "Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted."

[Robert]

And here's another zinger:

1 Cor 13:9 Our knowledge is incomplete and our ability to speak what God has revealed is incomplete. 10 But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will no longer be used. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I no longer used childish ways. 12 Now we see [God] as blurred image in a mirror. Then we will see very clearly.

Another version: 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see Him face to face!

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

Hmmmm. . . So Robert, are you inferring that the

song of Moses was only their faulty view of God...?

It's possible....I mean even Issiah said, "Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted."

[Robert]

Sorry, the Songs have similarity, but they aren't the same.

Here's Rev:

Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty. Just and true are your ways, King of the nations. Who will not fear (respect) you, Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.”

Here's Ex:

“I will sing to the Lord,

for he is highly exalted.

Both horse and driver

he has hurled into the sea (actually the dumb Egyptians drove into the sea).

2 “The Lord is my strength and my defense;

he has become my salvation.

He is my God, and I will praise him,

my father’s God, and I will exalt him.

3 The Lord is a warrior;

the Lord is his name.

4 Pharaoh’s chariots and his army

he has hurled into the sea (again, they came in following the Jews).

The best of Pharaoh’s officers

are drowned in the Red Sea.

5 The deep waters have covered them;

they sank to the depths like a stone.

6 Your right hand, Lord,

was majestic in power.

Your right hand, Lord,

shattered the enemy.

7 “In the greatness of your majesty

you threw down those who opposed you.

You unleashed your burning anger (that's their view - these are the same people that had been indoctrinated by the Pagan religions of the Egyptians - BTW, during all their flight from Pharaoh -when did they have time to learn this song?)

it consumed them like stubble.

8 By the blast of your nostrils (metaphor)

the waters piled up.

The surging waters stood up like a wall;

the deep waters congealed in the heart of the sea.

9 The enemy boasted,

‘I will pursue, I will overtake them. (see, they came in after them. Stupid is as stupid does)

I will divide the spoils;

I will gorge myself on them.

I will draw my sword

and my hand will destroy them.’ (their view of God was like that of a human. Not good)

10 But you blew with your breath,

and the sea covered them.

They sank like lead

in the mighty waters.

11 Who among the gods

is like you, Lord?

Who is like you—

majestic in holiness,

awesome in glory,

working wonders?

12 “You stretch out your right hand,

and the earth swallows your enemies.

13 In your unfailing love you will lead

the people you have redeemed.

In your strength you will guide them

to your holy dwelling.

14 The nations will hear and tremble;

anguish will grip the people of Philistia.

15 The chiefs of Edom will be terrified,

the leaders of Moab will be seized with trembling,

the people[c] of Canaan will melt away;

16 terror and dread will fall on them.

By the power of your arm

they will be as still as a stone —

until your people pass by, Lord,

until the people you bought[d] pass by.

17 You will bring them in and plant them

on the mountain of your inheritance—

the place, Lord, you made for your dwelling,

the sanctuary, Lord, your hands established.

18 “The Lord reigns

for ever and ever.”

[Robert]

"You unleashed your burning anger"

The Jews that were in bondage, for over 400 years, had been indoctrinated by the Pagan religions of the Egyptians. That is a fact. And then again when they came to Mount Sinai what happened? The Old Covenant. That's Paganism! I can't find the quote right now, but Ellen White states that all Pagan religions teach salvation by works by appeasing an angry god.

The Bible is more complicated then you think. It doesn't hide the flaws in the way folks thought. You need to think outside the box. As you look at these contradictions in the character of God, it should drive you to study even more.

[Q.E.D.]

Sorry, the Songs have similarity, but they aren't the same.

Here's Rev:

Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty. Just and true are your ways, King of the nations. Who will not fear (respect) you, Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.”

[Q.E.D.]

"You unleashed your burning anger"

The Jews that were in bondage, for over 400 years, had been indoctrinated by the Pagan religions of the Egyptians. That is a fact. And then again when they came to Mount Sinai what happened? The Old Covenant. That's Paganism! I can't find the quote right now, but Ellen White states that all Pagan religions teach salvation by works by appeasing an angry god.

The Bible is more complicated then you think. It doesn't hide the flaws in the way folks thought. You need to think outside the box. As you look at these contradictions in the character of God, it should drive you to study even more.

What contradictions???

"I can see clearly now, the rain is gone. . ."

Q.E.D.

[Robert]

"Give me the Bible. . ."

Q.E.D.

Yes, but interpretation is another thing.....How many denominations are there?

[Robert]

The Songs are exactly the same.

It didn't say that they were exactly the same. I disagree.

[Robert]

What contradictions???

And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharoah which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart [why?] so that he will not let the people go” (Exodus 4:21).

Keep in mind the whole idea is free the slaves, not keep them in bondage.

But when Pharoah saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the Lord had said . . . But Pharoah hardened his heart at this time also; neither would he let the people go (Exodus 8:14, 32).

God knew that Pharoah wouldn't let the slaves go. I mean, come on, talk about cheap labor! The more God tried to persuade Pharoah to let his labor force go free, the more he resisted until he completely hardened his mind(heart) against the idea.

But, here, it sure looks like a contradiction. The Bible is full of these....That's why you have to dig deep allowing God's Spirit to guide.

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

"Give me the Bible. . ."

Q.E.D.

Yes, but interpretation is another thing.....How many denominations are there?

Q.E.D. Responds: No interpretation to it. Revelation 15 says what it says. . ."They sang the Song of Moses!"

Robert Question: "How many denominations are there?"

Q.E.D. responds: Not sure, Google it.

Oh, to read on a 5th grade level. . .

Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

The Songs are exactly the same.

It didn't say that they were exactly the same. I disagree.

Since in Exodus 15 the song is called "The Song of Moses" and since the exact same wording, "The Song of Moses", is used in Revelation 15 then common sense would dictate that they are same exact song. The Song of Moses is the Song of Moses.

"Looking for an 8 year old to read Revelation 15. . ."

Q.E.D.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

What contradictions???

And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharoah which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart [why?] so that he will not let the people go” (Exodus 4:21).

Keep in mind the whole idea is free the slaves, not keep them in bondage.

But when Pharoah saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the Lord had said . . . But Pharoah hardened his heart at this time also; neither would he let the people go (Exodus 8:14, 32).

God knew that Pharoah wouldn't let the slaves go. I mean, come on, talk about cheap labor! The more God tried to persuade Pharoah to let his labor force go free, the more he resisted until he completely hardened his mind(heart) against the idea.

But, here, it sure looks like a contradiction. The Bible is full of these....That's why you have to dig deep allowing God's Spirit to guide.

Amen.

sky

[Felix Florimon]

Originally Posted By: Robert

It's possible....I mean even Issiah said, "Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted."

Hmmmm. . .Sounds like the Redeemed Righteous will be singing the "faulty" Song of Moses in Heaven or perhaps it's only Q.E.D.'s skewed view of the character of God however. . .

The Wrath of God and The Song of Moses in Revelation 15

"1 ¶ And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest."(Rev 15:1-4)

The Wrath of God and The Song Of Moses in Exodus 15

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

"1 ¶ Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea.

2 The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him.

3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

4 Pharaoh's chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the Red sea.

5 The depths have covered them: they sank into the bottom as a stone.

6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy.

7 And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble."(Exo 15:1-7)

What thinkest thou Robert?

Will the Redeemed Righteous be singing the Song of Moses on the Sea of Glass in Heaven if the Song of Moses is faulty and has lies about the character of God in it?

"Inquiring minds want to know. . ."

Q.E.D. [/quote']

Q.E.D.

Your post gives me three impressions:

1) There is a “very thick wall of separation” between the teachings of love of our Lord Jesus Christ and you.

2) You don’t believe in the real existence of God as He is mentioned in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. Your post gives me the impression that you believe that the story of Exodus is just a myth that could be only a “reality” in the mind of whoever wrote it and in the minds of those who decide to believe it.

3) Your understanding of secular psychology regarding how the human mind works is either very limited or you have decided that such principles of human psychology should not be applied to the human characters mentioned in the book of Exodus.

Let us begin with the third issue: If you are being chased by a hungry lion that wishes to convert you in the meal of the day but, just before catching you, that lion drops dead victim of bullet in its brain from a friendly good professional sniper from half a mile away, you probably would feel very happy and relieved when you see that dead lion just next to you. However, your own real happiness is not seeing that hungry lion dead but that your life has been saved and that you have a new chance to continue enjoying the opportunity of being alive. If you are a person who really likes to compose poems or songs, it is highly likely that you are going to express your joy and gratitude of escaping a certain death through a poem or song.

The same experience was suffered by the Israelites who escaped slavery from Egypt. When they saw Pharaoh with all his army chasing them in order to take them back as slaves, they did not see fellow humans just minding their own business and enjoying life. They only perceived death and destruction chasing them. As slaves the only rights they had was the right of being beaten and killed if they refused being slaves. This means that when they were unarmed, they saw a well disciplined army chasing them to take them back by force; they just perceived themselves being killed or beaten and dragged back to slavery in Egypt by brute force. They perceived some of their daughters and wives being raped on their way back to Egypt by “sexually active” young Egyptian soldiers who were days away from their homes and did not have their spouses accompanying them in their military mission.

The song of Moses in Exodus 15 gives us an explanation why God saw the deliverance of the Israelites from Egypt as an unfinished kind of business. God the Creator had to come to Earth, be born as a baby and live as any human mortal in order to teach us how to create “a thick wall of separation” between evil and our fellow humans beings. This is why with the face, lips and mouth of our Lord Jesus Christ, our Creator had to say: “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:43-48). This is why the Apostle Paul, the best expositor of Jesus' teachings wrote: “Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people” (Ephesians 6:10-18).

The problem is that God has decided that evil should not last for ever. God has given “a deadline.” Evil has to be destroyed. Anyone clinging to evil after such deadline will be destroyed because he/she has refused the “wall of separation” God wishes between evil and His creatures. God cannot allow to be linked with permissiveness toward evil for a whole eternity without end. Another problem we are facing is God’s children serving Him here or Earth. Jesus will not return to Earth in order to destroy death and those clinging to deadly evil until His children have a better experience of God’s love in their own personal lives and they learn to saturate the whole Earth by words and actions with the knowledge of God’s love for all His creatures through Jesus Christ. After Jesus followers learn how to share God’s love with every reasoning person on earth, each individual will have to make a decision in favor of eternal life with the love of Jesus in their hearts and minds or choose an eternal destruction designed to wipe out from the face of Earth suffering, illness, hate and death. Each one of us has freedom to choose on which side we wish to be when Jesus returns back from Heaven.

Based on the personal experience of those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior and Redeemer, the song of Moses will be interpreted through the song of the Lamb through which we will express our gratitude to a God and Creator who has an infinite love for all His creatures and who has saved us and redeemed us from death in order to grant us an eternal life full of joy, happiness and love for Him and all His creation.

FF

[skyblue888]

Evil has to be destroyed.

Nobody here is questioning that.

sky

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

What contradictions???

And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharoah which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart [why?] so that he will not let the people go” (Exodus 4:21).

Keep in mind the whole idea is free the slaves, not keep them in bondage.

But when Pharoah saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the Lord had said . . . But Pharoah hardened his heart at this time also; neither would he let the people go (Exodus 8:14, 32).

God knew that Pharoah wouldn't let the slaves go. I mean, come on, talk about cheap labor! The more God tried to persuade Pharoah to let his labor force go free, the more he resisted until he completely hardened his mind(heart) against the idea.

But, here, it sure looks like a contradiction. The Bible is full of these....That's why you have to dig deep allowing God's Spirit to guide.

Robert responds: "It sure looks like a contradiction"

Q.E.D. Responds: Glad to hear that it's not a contradiction even though it "looks like" one. Somehow I just knew it wasn't a contradiction because someone in a chat room told me a long time ago that there are no contradictions in the Bible. . .

Warning! This is a contradiction free zone. . .

Q.E.D.

[skyblue888]

he meant that it was only an apparent contradiction.

i think everybody understood that

and that we need to sink the shaft deeper into the mine of truth,,, and that involves thinking out of the box,,, many will refuse to go there as the Jews did in the days of Christ or in the days of the Reformation... only a few were ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented,,, history repeats itself...

sky

[Q.E.D.]

What thinkest thou Robert?

Will the Redeemed Righteous be singing the Song of Moses on the Sea of Glass in Heaven if the Song of Moses is faulty and has lies about the character of God in it?

"Inquiring minds want to know. . ."

Q.E.D.

[Felix Florimon]

Methinks you are confused.

Brevity is the essence of genius. . .

Q.E.D.

Say where the confusion is.

FF

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

Methinks you are confused.

Brevity is the essence of genius. . .

Q.E.D.

Say where the confusion is.

FF

[Q.E.D.]

he meant that it was only an apparent contradiction.

i think everybody understood that

and that we need to sink the shaft deeper into the mine of truth,,, and that involves thinking out of the box,,, many will refuse to go there as the Jews did in the days of Christ or in the days of the Reformation... only a few were ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented,,, history repeats itself...

sky

That's what I thought too.

"Sinking deeper . . ."

Q.E.D.

[Felix Florimon]

Methinks there's a bit of confusion concering your "impressions". Not quite sure if the confusion can be pinpointed but will give it a shot. . .

1) You profer an impressionistic, pseudo psychoanalysis, critique of over 1100 words about Q.E.D.'s state of mind in response to a mere 88 word Q.E.D. post as shown below.

2) Your three tiered opinion of my mindset about the two questions I asked Robert are whimsical fantasy at best and utter nonsense in fact. . .

"What we've got here is failure to communicate." - 1967 movie "Cool Hand Luke"

Q.E.D.

I beg your pardon, but based on your post, it is very difficult to understand if you wish to communicate that Robert's way of thinking is just a fantasy or if God as revealed in the Bible is just another fantasy or if both are fantasies. Since you convey that my analysis is not accurate, could you help me know what you really think to be truthful and what you really believe just to be a myth or fantasy?

FF

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

Methinks there's a bit of confusion concering your "impressions". Not quite sure if the confusion can be pinpointed but will give it a shot. . .

1) You profer an impressionistic, pseudo psychoanalysis, critique of over 1100 words about Q.E.D.'s state of mind in response to a mere 88 word Q.E.D. post as shown below.

2) Your three tiered opinion of my mindset about the two questions I asked Robert are whimsical fantasy at best and utter nonsense in fact. . .

"What we've got here is failure to communicate." - 1967 movie "Cool Hand Luke"

Q.E.D.

I beg your pardon, but based on your post, it is very difficult to understand if you wish to communicate that Robert's way of thinking is just a fantasy or if God as revealed in the Bible is just another fantasy or if both are fantasies. Since you convey that my analysis is not accurate, could you help me know what you really think to be truthful and what you really believe just to be a myth or fantasy?

FF

Sure, no problem!

1) There is a living God.

2) He has His requirements.

3) He has His people on earth now.

4) God is love.

5) Jesus Christ is our Creator and our God.

6) The Bible is the Word of God.

7) The Spirit of Prophecy is from God.

8) The Seventh-day Adventist Church is the Remnant Chruch of Revelation 12.

9) The righteous will be redeemed by faith in Christ.

10) The wicked will be destroyed by "fire out of heaven from God".

Let the questions begin.

"Reclining on the couch and getting comfy while drifting back to my early childhood years. . ."

Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

The Wrath of God

"1 ¶ But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things."(Acts 5:1-5)

Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

The Wrath of God

Analyze this Felix. . .

"and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."(Rev 20:9)

(Washburn Outsider Art image is copyrighted 2012.)