Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Q.E.D. God alone decrees who may live and who may die at any time under any circumstance. If God has no power in this area then God is not omnipotent. God's ways are not your ways. God works from agape. He is agape - for "God is love"! Love doesn't dictate...it doesn't force...it doesn't deceive...it doesn't use the principles of Satan's kingdom build on deceit and force. You are correct my dear Robert, . . . God's ways are not Q.E.D.'s ways. Q.E.D. does not have the power of life or death over individuals in any way, shape, form, fashion, or manner. Less than omnipotent. . . Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Q.E.D. Deep in the Word of God. I question that supposition. Gratuitous assertions are gratuitously rejected. Where is my Bible? Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I question that supposition. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 You forgot to log out as Robert/Sky What do you mean? sky Correction Roger/Robert. Beats me. . . You and Robert had the same post. Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Robert Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Your opinion that E.G. White changed her position is utter nonsense. Okay, ignore the quoted facts.....
Robert Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 You continue to believe in a God who has the attributes of Satan. I reject that.... "The fact that there is no controversy or agitation among God’s people, should not be regarded as conclusive evidence that they are holding fast to sound doctrine. There is reason to fear that they may not be clearly discriminating between truth and error. When no new questions are started by investigation of the Scriptures, when no difference of opinion arises which will set men to searching the Bible for themselves, to make sure that they have the truth, there will be many now, as in ancient times, who will hold to tradition, and worship they know not what.
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 You continue to believe in a God who has the attributes of Satan. . That's a great argument, Robert! Can I quote you if I run out of stuff to say? Now where did I put my other God? Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 "The fact that there is no controversy or agitation among God’s people, should not be regarded as conclusive evidence that they are holding fast to sound doctrine. There is reason to fear that they may not be clearly discriminating between truth and error. When no new questions are started by investigation of the Scriptures, when no difference of opinion arises which will set men to searching the Bible for themselves, to make sure that they have the truth, there will be many now, as in ancient times, who will hold to tradition, and worship they know not what. Since when is there "no controversy or agitation among God's people"? You need to get out of the house a little more often. . . Worshiping something out there but not quite sure what IT is. . . Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Gibs Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Only Yahweh can destroy or terminate the spirits of Satan and his angels and wicked men and it is yes, a strange act of Love, but He must do it or He wouldn't be love. He must end this great cancer of sin and rebellion that has made this world into, well you name it, it sure isn't a paradise and is getting rapidly worse. Does God Kill? He says He does, De 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. And He makes it clear there also there is no other God. You gotta know something, sin and sinners and Satan and his angels are smart enough to not kill each other down to the last few men or two or three thousand out of well over 7 billion with Satan and his. But then they can only kill the body. Jesus said, Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 The Wrath of God "The heavy veil of tapestry, made of pure linen, and beautifully wrought with gold, scarlet, and purple, was rent from top to bottom." (Desire of Ages, page 775) Who or what ripped the veil of the beautifully wrought tapestry at the death of Christ? (Please select one answer and keep in mind that God does not destroy.) A. One of God's Angels B. Satan or one of his angels D. God Himself E. Sin caused it to self destruct when God withdrew His protection. Looking for answers in all the wrong places. . . Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
skyblue888 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 It is safe to say that at least three facts are common to us all. The FIRST is that we have, either consciously or subconsciously, a definite opinion about God's character and behavior. Even though little direct thought or specific expression may have been given to the topic, it is true nonetheless. The SECOND is that our attitude toward God, our treatment of others, and our receptivity to truth are determined by these opinions. The THIRD is that all of us were born pre-dispositioned to possess a false concept of God which in turn has been confirmed and extended by environmental and educational influences. Unless delivered from this and initiated into a true knowledge of God, it will be impossible to enter into a full and perfect Christian experience, and the prospects of eternal life will be endangered. If this seems to be saying too much, consider the proof of these words as provided in the history of the Jews of Christ's day. to be continued "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 When Christ first appeared working amazing miracles, proclaiming the kingdom, and proving that He came at exactly the time specified in Daniel 9, He quickly became a very popular figure. Thousands followed Him, confident that He would re-establish the lost glory of Israel. The Jewish leaders studied the movement with increasing apprehension seeing in it the threat to their prestige and power. His following continued to swell until the feeding of the five thousand with the loaves and the fish. Then, when the enthusiasm of the people had reached its height and they were determined to crown Him king, the tide suddenly turned, the enthusiasm died away, and the crowds walked with Him no more. From that time every step led to the cross when those who had so ardently called for His crowning, screamed for His crucifixion. What was the factor which caused this astonishing reversal? The answer is not difficult to find. They had a very definite but false concept of God's character, shaped by the educational processes in their environment. This factor was so fixed and powerful that it influenced them to reject the Savior because He did not perform as their concept of God's character became the most critical element in the mission of Jesus and the fate of the Jews. Had they correctly understood this, the history of His work on earth would have been very different. to be continued "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Any careful study of the mounting conflict between Christ and the people leaves no doubt of the veracity of the above assertions. A great and significant event in His ministry was the sermon on the mount. Everyone who attended came anticipating important announcements about the coming kingdom. The Pharisees "looked forward to the day when they should have dominion over the hated Romans and possess the riches and splendor of the world's great empire. The poor peasants and fishermen hoped to hear the assurance that their wretched hovels, the scanty food, the life of toil, and fear of want were to be exchanged for mansions of plenty and days of ease. In place of the one coarse garment which was their covering by day, and their blanket by night, they hoped that Christ would give them the rich and costly robes of their conquerors. All hearts thrilled with the proud hope that Israel was soon to be honored before the nations as the chosen of the Lord, and Jerusalem exalted as the head of a universal kingdom." D.A.299. Because the devil had done his work well, the people believed that not only the Messiah would exalt them in this way but that He would do it by the use of the sword. They saw God as the vengeful, destroying One of the Old Testament. Their concept of the God of the Old Testament led them to believe that the Messaiah would behave in the same way. But because their understanding of God's character was wrong, their expectations were to be disappointed. to be continued "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 "Christ disappointed the hopes of worldly greatness. In the Sermon on the Mount He sought to undo the work that had been wrought by false education, and to give His hearers a right conception of His kingdom and of His own character." ibid The people did not hear what they had come to hear in the sermon on the mount, but many did not reject the Savior just then. He did not directly attack their errors, and they were left with the vague hope that somehow He would assert His power and use it according to their ideas of God's character. Their servitude to the Romans had placed that proud people in a desperate plight. They needed great help, and they knew it. Their understanding of the prophecies had led them to pin their entire hopes on the Messiah as the answer to this predicament. If He should fail them, they would have nowhere else to turn. Christ had not come to fail them. He knew exactly what their true needs were, and He had fully purposed to supply those needs. But the answer did not lie in the use of the weapons of force. It lay in the changing of their characters into the likeness of His own. But so intent were they on their long cherished ambitions that there was no room to consider the alternative He offered. The climax came at the feeding of the five thousand. Throughout the long day, He had thrilled their hearts with the wonder of His teachings. The sick had been healed and the multitude fed. As the day wore on, "... they said to one another, 'This is the prophet that should come into the world.'" "All day the conviction had strengthened. The hopes of the people rose higher and higher. This is He who will make Judea an earthly paradise, a land flowing with milk and honey. He can satisfy every desire. He can break the power of the hated Romans. He can deliver Judah and Jerusalem. He can heal the soldiers who are wounded in battle. He can supply whole armies with food. He can conquer the nations, and give to Israel the long-sought dominion. In their enthusiasm the people are ready at once to crown Him king, They see that He makes no effort to attract attention or secure honor to Himself. In this He is essentially different from the priests and rulers, and they fear that He will never urge His claim to David's throne. Consulting together, they agree to take Him by force, and proclaim Him the king of Israel. The disciples unite with the multitude in declaring the throne of David the rightful inheritance of their Master. It is the modesty of Christ, they say, that causes Him to refuse the honor. Let the people exalt their Deliverer. Let the arrogant priests and rulers be forced to honor Him who comes clothed with the authority of God." ibid.,377,378. to be continued "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 They could see that Jesus loved them and that He had all the power necessary to give them all that they could desire. The only kind of character they knew and understood was the kind which used the possession of mighty power to achieve their selfish ambitions. They could see and were unwilling to be taught that Christ did not have this kind of character. He loved the Romans as much as He loved the Jews, neither was it His way to use force to accomplish any desired objective. Therefore, in harmony with His character, He would not permit Himself to be made king by them, nor would He use His mighty powers to advantage one class of those whom He loved, above another. With an authority which none could disobey, He dismissed disciples and multitude alike. The bitter complaint of the apostles against Him was, "Why did not He who possessed such power reveal Himself in His true character, and make their way less painful." ibid.,380. The truth was that Christ was living out the character of God to perfection. It was because of what He was, a revelation of God to men, that He did what He did. In their failure to understand His real character, they expected an altogether different line of behavior. When He did not do what they believed that He should do, they felt cheated and betrayed. So it was with the multitude. The next day, after closely questioning Him, they came to see that He would never use His power as they expected Him to. For this reason they left Him forever. "If He would not devote His power and influence to obtaining their freedom from the Romans, they would have nothing to do with Him." ibid.,391. to be continued "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Thus it was that their misunderstanding of the character of God in Christ led them to expect from Him a complete deliverance from the Romans and their exaltation to the heights of material grandeur. He was a Jew like they were. He was sent as the Messiah to the chosen and favored people. He had the power. Therefore, they reasoned, it was His duty to use that power to favor them. If He refused to do it, then He was nothing short of a traitor to His own. They found Him guilty of treason and determined to be revenged. Because they possessed the character which they believed He had, they did to Him with the power at their command, what they believed He should have done to the Romans. To accomplish this, they accused Him before the Romans of seeking to make Himself to be what they had actually tried to make Him, the king of the world. This was a totally false accusation which, though it enabled them to wreak vengeance on Him whom they believed had betrayed them, opened the floodgates of woe on the nation. Few people, if any, have suffered as the Jews have since that terrible time. Theirs is a fate which none would care to share. If only they had understood the character of God so perfectly revealed in Christ, or at least been willing to be taught it, they would not have expected of Him what they did, nor would they have rejected and vengefully crucified Him. Thus the question of the character of God in Christ was the most critical element in His mission and in the fate of the Jews. Contained in their history is a sober warning which none can treat lightly. The character of God is still the most critical issue in the church and in the world today. As were the Jews, so too have all of us been subjected to an erroneous education in respect to God's character. But God will not leave us in darkness without the opportunity to escape from it. When that light is presented to us, there is the terrible danger that we will repeat their history by rejecting the message because it does not conform to our already established ideas. Let none repeat the fearful history of the Jews by rejecting God's truth on this basis. The outworking of such decisions have implications too terrible, final, and eternal to contemplate. Rather, let there be an earnest, prayerful pleading with the Lord to open the eyes of our spiritual understanding to see God as He really is. sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 When Christ first appeared working amazing miracles, proclaiming the kingdom, and proving that He came at exactly the time specified in Daniel 9, He quickly became a very popular figure. Thousands followed Him, confident that He would re-establish the lost glory of Israel. The Jewish leaders studied the movement with increasing apprehension seeing in it the threat to their prestige and power. His following continued to swell until the feeding of the five thousand with the loaves and the fish. Then, when the enthusiasm of the people had reached its height and they were determined to crown Him king, the tide suddenly turned, the enthusiasm died away, and the crowds walked with Him no more. From that time every step led to the cross when those who had so ardently called for His crowning, screamed for His crucifixion. What was the factor which caused this astonishing reversal? The answer is not difficult to find. They had a very definite but false concept of God's character, shaped by the educational processes in their environment. This factor was so fixed and powerful that it influenced them to reject the Savior because He did not perform as their concept of God's character became the most critical element in the mission of Jesus and the fate of the Jews. Had they correctly understood this, the history of His work on earth would have been very different. +++++++++++++++ Correction: This factor was so fixed and powerful that it influenced them to reject the Savior because He did not perform as their concept of God's character led them to expect and desire of Him. Thus the question of God's character became the most critical element in the mission of Jesus and the fate of the Jews. Had they correctly understood this, the history of His work on earth would have been very different. sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
JoeMo Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Christ was crucified by the establishment church because He threatened their power structure and means of financial support. Sure, the "little people" were disappointed in Christ when he refused to become king and liberate them from Rome; but the corporate church of the time is who whipped them into a murderous frenzy. When people started following Christ instead of the Pharisees and Saducees, they conspired to get rid of Him; and incited the people to go along with their murderous scheme. otherwise the masses would have simply ignored Jesus, hoping he would just go away. It's that simple. It's no different than when different denominations or corporations drum out those who disagree with the leadership. Why do you think the early SDA leaders sent EGW away? Why did the Catholic Church imprison Martin Luther? Why did the Anglican Church persecute the Quakers? Why did the GC drum out Des Ford? Why do Democrats oppose Republicans? Whether religion, politics, or corporations, when the institutional and financial interests are theatened, someone will suffer.
Robert Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 De 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. I can top that: Isaiah 45:7 ASV - I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
Robert Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 "Christians have placed upon the throne of the universe a God of eternal hate. I cannot worship a being whose vengeance is boundless, whose cruelty shoreless, and whose malice is increased by the agonies he inflicts." [The 19th century skeptic, Robert G. Ingersoll] Bad Christianity produces agnostics.
Woody Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 3rd May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
cheddar Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 "Christians have placed upon the throne of the universe a God of eternal hate. I cannot worship a being whose vengeance is boundless, whose cruelty shoreless, and whose malice is increased by the agonies he inflicts." [The 19th century skeptic, Robert G. Ingersoll] Bad Christianity produces agnostics. This is not a balanced picture of God's character. It is simply going to the other extreme. Exodus 34 is a complete picture of God's character. The first six attributes are mercy, graciousness, longsuffering, goodness, truth and forgiveness. And only the last attribute deals with his wrath and punishment of the guilty. So in reality God's wrath is only one seventh of his character, so his goodness and mercy should be presented much more than his wrath.
Robert Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 Ex 4:21 The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. Two things: 1] Force is not of God. He doesn't compel. What about free will? 2] Notice that God did this so that Pharaoh wouldn't let the Jews go. This is opposite of what He wanted to do. .i.e., free them from bondage.
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