The Wrath of God

[Robert]

The old covenant ended in less than 6 weeks after Moses went up upon the mount to get the first set of 10 Commandments on the tables of stone.

What a line of baloney! The Old Covenant exist today!

14 but their minds were hardened: for until this very day (after Christ) at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remaineth, it not being revealed [to them] that it is done away in Christ.

In other words you can't be under grace & law simultaneously.

What's the OC?

Ex 34:28 So he (Moses) was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

[Robert]

Read the 10 commandments, that is the Law of Liberty, the Royal Law.

[Robert]

I'm scared Gibs.....Not!

[Robert]

Read the 10 commandments, that is the Law of Liberty, the Royal Law.

Really? James 2:12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

The law condemns. It doesn't forgive. Even if you stopped sinning (which you haven't) the law insist that you must die. So the law is "a yoke of bondage" to those under its jurisdiction. Read Paul:

Gal 5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of bondage. 2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you (this is one of the commands under the book of the law) 3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law (In other words you can't just keep one law - you must keep all of them). 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Romans 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us in bondage....

[skyblue888]

Robert, is there not a difference between the law engraved on stones or merely written with ink and proceeding out of the mouth of God? Are the living oracles of God a yoke of bondage? Are they not Spirit and are they not life? John 6:63.

Are we not under grace through the merits of Christ when we receive the 10 commandments as the voice of Him whose word can renew the soul unto everlasting life?

sky

[Robert]

The old covenant ended in less than 6 weeks after Moses went up upon the mount....

yeah, right....

Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise. 24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband." 28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.

In other words the Pharisees among us (who are under the OC) will hound those under the promise of God (the NC).

Under the NC we are complete in Christ. Read Gal chapter 3. The fruits we bear come not from fear, but because of God's agape towards us. "There's no fear in love".

No longer are we afraid of God, for God is love. We see God differently then those who are blind and under the OC. We see a God who retreats when rejected.

[Q.E.D.]

It amazes me - the spin that I read in these threads.

I agree Woody, but I find it even more amazing that some Seventh-day Adventists do not see nor do they know any relational differences between the New Covenant, the Old Covenant, the Law, the 10 Commandments, the First Covenant and the Second Covenant.

Many spout the very same dialogue that apostate protestantism spews out and they don't even know it.

Ozark Women is right about Christians not knowing what they believe. It's sad but true that a great number of Christians could not defend their faith with a "Thus saith the Lord" if their life depended on it.

You can clearly see some of this confusion in the responses to my post about the Covenant made at Mt. Sinai ending in less than 6 weeks! They don't even agree among themselves just like the Babylon of apostate protestantism. Just carefully read their posts and compare them one to another and you will see it.

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God. . ."

Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

In other words the Pharisees among us (who are under the OC) will hound those under the promise of God (the NC).

Under the NC we are complete in Christ. Read Gal chapter 3. The fruits we bear come not from fear, but because of God's agape towards us. "There's no fear in love".

No longer are we afraid of God, for God is love. We see God differently then those who are blind and under the OC. We see a God who retreats when rejected.

Say Robert, That sounds like good ole Southern Baptist preaching against Seventh-day Adventism!

"In other words Seventh-day Adventists (who are under the OC) will hound those under the promise of God (the NC).

Under the NC, we as Southern Baptists, are complete in Christ. Read Gal chapter 3. The fruits we bear come not from the fear that Seventh-day Adventists live in, but because of God's agape towards us. "There's no fear in love".

No longer are we like the Seventh-day Adventists, for God is love. We see God differently than Seventh-day Adventists who are blind and under the OC. We see a God who retreats when rejected."

"Looking for a mail order course in comparative religions. . ."

Q.E.D.

[Robert]

That's your spin....

[Robert]

Many spout the very same dialogue that apostate protestantism spews out and they don't even know it.

Apostate? I take it you have and know the truth? I would like to test you there, because me thinks that you're in error. Ready?

Look for a new topic under Theological Townhall titled, "What is the law in Galatians - Moral or ceremonial?" It will be like the 1888 GC again. Only this time it won't be rejected again because the truth will be undeniable.

[Woody]

Now we have spin and condemation of our fellow believers.

What will come next?

[Woody]

this is religion askew.

[Gibs]

All Denominations are in deep apostasy and will reap the wrath of God! Follow Jesus Christ only and no denomination that has long ago become non protestant. All are protestant in name only.

Laodicea or Great Babylon the call is to come out and be ye separate.

2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Remember how proud the Jews were? What happened to those who claimed to be God's remnant, commandment keeping people?

They murdered the Redeemer - Jesus Christ. In fact they didn't just murder Him, they wanted God to curse Him. Hence they nailed Him to a tree. "For it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.'" Gal 3:13

"God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

[Woody]

Quote:

All Denominations are in deep apostasy and will reap the wrath of God! Follow Jesus Christ only and no denomination that has long ago become non protestant. All are protestant in name only.

Laodicea or Great Babylon the call is to come out and be ye separate.

Pride is not limited to denominations I can see.

[Woody]

Quote:

All Denominations are in deep apostasy and will reap the wrath of God! Follow Jesus Christ only and no denomination that has long ago become non protestant. All are protestant in name only.

Laodicea or Great Babylon the call is to come out and be ye separate.

Pride is not limited to denominations I can see.

Good Point Woody.

Wow - I sure wish we were allowed to bring back the 'Love of God' thread.

But I do see how people prefer talking about reaping the wrath of God.

Wow - what a message.

[Q.E.D.]

That's your spin....

But it was good - Wasn't it!

"Can't we all get along?". . .Rodney King,(now deceased), after the 1992 Los Angeles riots.

Q.E.D.

[CoAspen]

I had it moved because people would not and could not talk about Gods Love! The hi-jackers only want to talk about wrath, they are afraid of God. Some might call it an obsession, everyone is wrong but them and they ain't about to let you stay on topic!!!

Fear is in the air

All around us, every where

[Woody]

I had it moved because people would not and could not talk about Gods Love! The hi-jackers only want to talk about wrath, they are afraid of God. Some might call it an obsession, everyone is wrong but them and they ain't about to let you stay on topic!!!

Fear is in the air

All around us, every where

Yes. ANd you are making it very descriptive.

What is it that they call people who are looking behind each bush with fear?

[Q.E.D.]

The Wrath of God

"Judas had told them the words spoken by Jesus to the disciples while on the last journey to Jerusalem: "Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn Him to death, and shall deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify Him: and the third day He shall rise again." Matt. 20:18, 19. When they heard these words, they had mocked and ridiculed. But now they remembered that Christ's predictions had so far been fulfilled. He had said that He would rise again the third day, and who could say that this also would not come to pass? They longed to shut out these thoughts, but they could not. Like their father, the devil, they believed and trembled."(Desire of Ages, page 777)

Oh! Sometimes it causes me to tremble, tremble, tremble. . .

Q.E.D.

[Gibs]

Well He who is Love and True Love sure does get angry and will show much wrath.

Isa 30:30 And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.

You must know this, it only falls on those who have asked for it. All are determining their destiny now, either for eternal life or eternal death!

Re 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Would you acuse Him of being unrighteous? The Redeemed go over the judgement with Him and declare Him Righteous. Also when the judgement of the lost are given the full of it they too bow the knee and confess He is righteous. Then the lost will be no more, annihilated.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Well He who is Love and True Love sure does get angry and will show much wrath.

Isa 30:30 And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.

You must know this, it only falls on those who have asked for it. All are determining their destiny now, either for eternal life or eternal death!

Re 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Would you accuse Him of being unrighteous? The Redeemed go over the judgement with Him and declare Him Righteous. Also when the judgement of the lost are given the full of it they too bow the knee and confess He is righteous. Then the lost will be no more, annihilated.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So according to this interpretation of yours God does, after all, stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; that the judgments of God do, after all, come directly out from the Lord upon the impenitent. Yet this is stated in the face of plain statements to the contrary as found in The Great Controversy,36 and Manuscript Releases, Vol.14, p.3.

Gibs, it is undeniable that you refuse to be enlightened from the SoP as to how we are to read that language in regard to the anger of the Lord, the wrath of God, or even the fierce anger of the Lord. Like others you are quick to quote from the same source when it suits your purposes, if it is in harmony with what you perceive to be the truth, blatantly ignoring those statements which clearly explain these very statements you quote in regard to the wrath of God.

I have given the following example before and I will give it again so that there is no misunderstanding as to how we are to understand this language.

In Psalm 2 the Father is speaking to the Son and says,

"I will declare the decree: The Lord has said unto me, 'You are My son; this day have I begotten You. Ask of Me, and I shall give You the nations for Your inheritance, and the utmost parts of the earth for Your possessions. You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now, therefore, O ye kings; be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they who put their trust in Him." Psalm 2:7-12.

Here we read that the Lord will get angry with the nations and He will break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. And then the warning: "Kiss the Son lest He be angry and ye perish in the way when His wrath is kindled but a little."

In the Scriptures we read of the anger of the Lord, the wrath of God, or the fierce anger of the Lord. We cannot deny this but we must leave our preconceived ideas at the door of investigation and allow the Lord to teach us. We must be students at the school of Christ, sit at His feet, and be taught of Him, and who can teach like Him!

Please, read the following very carefully and prayerfully.

"There is an unerring register kept of all sins committed. All man's impiety, all his disobedience to Heaven's commands, are written in the books of Heaven with unerring accuracy. The figures of guilt rapidly accumulate, yet the judgments of God are tampered with mercy, until the figures have reached their appointed limit. God bears long with the transgression of human beings, and continues through His appointed agencies to present the gospel message, until the set time has come. God bears with divine patience with the perversity of the wicked; but He declares that He will visit their transgression with a rod (the rod of iron spoken of in Psalm 2). He will at last permit the destructive agencies of evil to bear sway to destroy." E.G. White, Bible Commentary, Vol.4,1171.

Yes the Lord will break the nations of the wicked with a rod, even with a rod of iron and He will dash them to pieces. How? He will at last permit the destructive agencies of evil to bear sway to destroy.

Gibs, you also quoted words to the effect that God's voice will destroy the impenitent. This language has also been explained at the school of Christ.

He will say to the angels, "No longer combat Satan in his efforts to destroy. Let him work out his malignity upon the children of disobedience for the cup of iniquity is full. They have advanced from one degree of wickedness to another, adding daily to their lawlessness. I will no longer interfere to prevent the destroyer from doing his work."

This work of destruction at the hand of Satan is described in Isaiah 14:12-20. So, yes, the Lord will show much wrath when He is forced to abandon the nations to the leader they have chosen.

sky

[Gibs]

I know Sky, you are one who believes that God does not Kill but He says diferent,

De 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

Death comes from God because of sin. Sure He could have allowed the sinner and rebellious to live. If someone hires an assassin he is guilty of the killing. The sinner himself makes it that God must take him out one way or the other.

But in the ultimate end it is God alone who alone can destroy or take away the spirit or life of the sinner rebellious one.

All will see for sure when He comes in full Glory and His Presence consumes them, but the spirit will be back in the second resurrection to die again the second and eternal death which alone God can do.

Yes it is the strange act of love to do it as who else is left, Satan and none of the wicked will you certainly know that. Yes the wicked and rebellious all want to live eternally in sin. Man in sinning or evil angels will not stop sinning, the only stopper will be the God who is Love, If He didn't he wouldn't be love.

Sky this is an argument that I will take no further as I find it is not profitable.

He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but He cannot clear them as they wouldn't be cleared themselves given every advantage to do so.

Sky you run with your idea here and I will run with mine

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Should we put our opinions or preconceived ideas above the Testimony of Jesus?

[Woody]

Should we put our opinions or preconceived ideas above the Testimony of Jesus?

I am praying that you won't Sky.