Robert Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 God would do it in strict justice. Dude, this is getting old.... If you really want to know how God deals with sin read how He dealt with Jesus as the son of man. That's how He will deal with sinners who reject salvation. End of story,
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Exaclty. This language is no different than the language used concerning the death of Saul. We read, "God slew him and turned the kingdom over to David." 1 Chronicles 10:14. But we know that God did not directly slay Saul. Saul killed himself with his own sword. Verse 4. God was forced to withdraw His protecting care from Saul and God said that He slew him simply because by withdrawing His restraining power from the agencies of evil, Saul was doomed. sky Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Robert Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 "Christ felt the anguish that the sinner will feel when mercy shall no longer plead for the guilty race. It was the sense of sin, bringing the Father’s wrath upon Him as the sinner’s substitute, that made the cup He drank so bitter, and broke the heart of the Son of God." How did the justice of the law fall upon Christ as the son of man? Keep in mind He took the sins of the whole human race upon Himself. Think about what Hitler did...and that's just one man's sins. Now think of every son & daughter of Adam and all their sins. All these were placed upon Christ. So if God's going to really show His wrath you should fully see towards Christ. After all Paul states "Him who knew no sin (as the Son of God) he (God) made to be sin (as the son of man)...." 2 Cor 5:21 He was made sin because He took upon His sinless nature our sinful, fallen nature. This doesn't mean that as one of us Christ sinned. No, it means He assumed our humanity with it's bent to self (indwelling) sin. It is this bent-to-self that God condemned in Christ's assumed humanity: Romans 8:2 "By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and because of sin, 3 he (God) condemned sin (where?) in the flesh" So it was our humanity "in Christ" that God condemned. What does the law require of the sin? Death - the 2nd death! How did God's law execute sin in Christ's assumed humanity? What is the curse of the law? God abandonment! So God never touched Christ, who became sin as the son of man. He forsook Him.
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Q.E.D. God would do it in strict justice. Dude, this is getting old.... If you really want to know how God deals with sin read how He dealt with Jesus as the son of man. That's how He will deal with sinners who reject salvation. End of story, I agree, it is old . . .That quote is over 150 years old and it's called the Spirit of Prophecy by Ellen G. White. Your brother in Christ, The Dude. . . Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Robert Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 First of all how do you know that God did not directly slay Saul? Because God doesn't use the principles of Satan's kingdom, i.e., force and compulsion. When God is persistently rejected He retreats.
Robert Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 That quote is over 150 years old and it's called the Spirit of Prophecy by Ellen G. White. Dude, the Bible trumps Ellen White. She is the lesser light....She didn't have the full light, the Bible does. Who said that? The lesser light: The question has been asked me, "Do you think that the Lord has any more light for us as a people?" I answer that He has light that is new to us, and yet it is precious old light that is to shine forth from the Word of truth [the Bible]. We (the SDA church & Ellen White) have only the glimmerings of the rays of the light that is yet to come to us. [1SM 401]
skyblue888 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Q.E.D. you are a tough nut to crack. Just read 1 Chronicles 10:14,4 again. It is not difficult to see that Saul was left without any protection from God and therefore without any protection from his own passions and the malice and enmity of Satan. Either Satan would use the Philistines to kill him or he would inspire him to kill himself. He chose to kill himself. You are very selective in your quotes. The quotes I use explain the language of the quotes you choose to focus on. sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Q.E.D. First of all how do you know that God did not directly slay Saul? Because God doesn't use the principles of Satan's kingdom, i.e., force and compulsion. When God is persistently rejected He retreats. So you do not really know if God did or did not directly turn off Saul's "life switch"? The Beloved Dude. . . Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
skyblue888 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Come on Q.E.D. its like you are in a corner and you are fighting for your own life. There is no need to do this. We know that Saul killed himself. It was a suicide having forced God to withdraw His protection from him. Later the nation suffered the same fate. G.C.28,36. sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Robert Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 So you do not really know if God did or did not directly turn off Saul's "life switch"? We aren't robots....We have free wills. That's the way a loving God of love, not one foaming at the mouth, created us. "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression, but He leaves (abandons) the rejectors of His mercy to themselves to reap that which they have sown." G.C.36. What part of that don't you comprehend? It's time to think outside the box. Don't let old light make you blind. “A spirit of pharisaism has been coming in upon the people who claim to believe the truth for these last days. They are self-satisfied. They have said, ‘We have the truth. There is no more light for the people of God.’ But we are not safe when we take a position that we will not accept anything else than that upon which we have settled as truth. We should take the Bible, and investigate it closely for ourselves. We should dig in the mine of God's word for truth. ‘Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart.’ Some have asked me if I thought there was any more light for the people of God. Our minds have become so narrow that we do not seem to understand that the Lord has a mighty work to do for us. Increasing light is to shine upon us; for ‘the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.’ --Review and Herald, June 18, 1889. CW 34, 35
skyblue888 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Q.E.D. So you do not really know if God did or did not directly turn off Saul's "life switch"? We aren't robots....We have free wills. That's the way a loving God of love, not one foaming at the mouth, created us. "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression, but He leaves (abandons) the rejectors of His mercy to themselves to reap that which they have sown." G.C.36. What part of that don't you comprehend. It's time to think outside the box. Don't let old light make you blind. Old light? you mean tradition and misinterpretation. I certainly agree that it is time to think outside of the box. Jesus and the Reformers were certainly thinking outside the box and that didn't go very well over the heads of the religious authorities of their day. sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Q.E.D. you are a tough nut to crack. Just read 1 Chronicles 10:14,4 again. It is not difficult to see that Saul was left without any protection from God and therefore without any protection from his own passions and the malice and enmity of Satan. Either Satan would use the Philistines to kill him or he would inspire him to kill himself. He chose to kill himself. You are very selective in your quotes. The quotes I used explained the language of the quotes you choose to focus on. sky Perhaps you missed the point of my submission. Saul might "choose" to kill himself but that does not mean that God will allow him that priviledge. Just because one attempts suicide does not guarantee success. God alone decrees who may live and who may die at any time under any circumstance. If God has no power in this area then God is not omnipotent. It's a free country and I can very selectively choose whatever quotes I like. It's kinda like fencing a pasture. It takes more than barbed wire and "T" posts to keep the cattle in. . .I'm just closing in on my target a little at a time. Just keeping an open mind while cracking nuts and reading my "Hitler Revised Standard Version Bible" Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Robert Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Old light? you mean tradition and misinterpretation. Ellen White changed her positions during her life. One was on the love of God: “The Lord loves those little children who try to do right, and he has promised that they shall be in his kingdom. But wicked children God does not love. He will not take them to the beautiful City, for he only admits the good, obedient, and patient children there…. When you feel tempted to speak impatient and fretful, remember the Lord sees you, and will not love you if you do wrong. “ [AY 63, 1860 ] “Do not teach your children that God does not love them when they do wrong….Do not terrify your children by telling them of the wrath of God, but rather seek to impress them with his unspeakable love and goodness….” [bible Echo and Signs of the Times, 02-01- 1892 ]
skyblue888 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 It's a free country and I can very selectively choose whatever quotes I like. It's kinda like fencing a pasture. It takes more than barbed wire and "T" posts to keep the cattle in. . .I'm just closing in on my target a little at a time. Q.E.D. ))))))))))) Come on Q.E.D. Let's be serious. Of course you live in a free country, for a little longer, but when it comes to spiritual truth, we need to follow God's instruction, not our own way. "The testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages given, as Scripture is explained by Scripture." 1 S.M.42. Does that mean anything to you Q.E.D.? sky * and what do these letters Q.E.D. mean? "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Q.E.D. So you do not really know if God did or did not directly turn off Saul's "life switch"? We aren't robots....We have free wills. That's the way a loving God of love, not one foaming at the mouth, created us. "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression, but He leaves (abandons) the rejectors of His mercy to themselves to reap that which they have sown." G.C.36. What part of that don't you comprehend? It's time to think outside the box. Don't let old light make you blind. “A spirit of pharisaism has been coming in upon the people who claim to believe the truth for these last days. They are self-satisfied. They have said, ‘We have the truth. There is no more light for the people of God.’ But we are not safe when we take a position that we will not accept anything else than that upon which we have settled as truth. We should take the Bible, and investigate it closely for ourselves. We should dig in the mine of God's word for truth. ‘Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart.’ Some have asked me if I thought there was any more light for the people of God. Our minds have become so narrow that we do not seem to understand that the Lord has a mighty work to do for us. Increasing light is to shine upon us; for ‘the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.’ --Review and Herald, June 18, 1889. CW 34, 35 Q.E.D. does not confuse temporal issues with ultimate realities. Well beyond the box . . .Deep in the Word of God. Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Robert Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 God alone decrees who may live and who may die at any time under any circumstance. If God has no power in this area then God is not omnipotent. God's ways are not your ways. God works from agape. He is agape - for "God is love"! Love doesn't dictate...it doesn't force...it doesn't deceive...it doesn't use the principles of Satan's kingdom build on deceit and force.
Robert Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Deep in the Word of God. I question that supposition.
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.So you do not really know if God did or did not directly turn off Saul's "life switch"? We aren't robots....We have free wills. That's the way a loving God of love, not one foaming at the mouth, created us. "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression, but He leaves (abandons) the rejectors of His mercy to themselves to reap that which they have sown." G.C.36. What part of that don't you comprehend. It's time to think outside the box. Don't let old light make you blind. Old light? you mean tradition and misinterpretation. I certainly agree that it is time to think outside of the box. Jesus and the Reformers were certainly thinking outside the box and that didn't go very well over the heads of the religious authorities of their day. sky You forgot to log out as Roger/Sky Q.E.D. responds the same to both posts. Q.E.D. does not confuse temporal issues with ultimate realities. Well beyond the box . . .in the Spirit of the Lord thy God. Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
skyblue888 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Q.E.D. Deep in the Word of God. I question that supposition. I don't! but Q.E.D. seems to willingly ignore that statements which clearly say that the understanding of the people of God has been blinded for our gracious Lord has been presented to the people clothed in the attributes of Satan for the simple reason that tradition and misinterpretation have obscured the teaching of the Bible concerning the character of God, the nature of His government, and the principles of His dealing with sin. sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 You forgot to log out as Roger/Sky What do you mean? sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 It's a free country and I can very selectively choose whatever quotes I like. It's kinda like fencing a pasture. It takes more than barbed wire and "T" posts to keep the cattle in. . .I'm just closing in on my target a little at a time. Q.E.D. ))))))))))) Come on Q.E.D. Let's be serious. Of course you live in a free country, for a little longer, but when it comes to spiritual truth, we need to follow God's instruction, not our own way. "The testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages given, as Scripture is explained by Scripture." 1 S.M.42. Does that mean anything to you Q.E.D.? sky It means exactly what it says. It means that some will reject the reproofs, council and correction of the Testimonies. It does not mean a thing about the Testimonies redefining words and phrases found in the Holy Bible. Just reading as it reads. . . Q.E.D. 1 Selected Messages Soon every possible effort will be made to discount and pervert the truth of the testimonies of God's Spirit. We must have in readiness the clear, straight messages that since 1846 have been coming to God's people. {1SM 41.2} There will be those once united with us in the faith who will search for new, strange doctrines, for something odd and sensational to present to the people. They will bring in all conceivable fallacies, and will present them as coming from Mrs. White, that they may beguile souls.... {1SM 41.3} Those who have treated the light that the Lord has given as a common thing will not be benefited by the instruction presented. {1SM 41.4} There are those who will misinterpret the messages that God has given, in accordance with their spiritual blindness. {1SM 41.5} Some will yield their faith, and will deny the truth of the messages, pointing to them as falsehoods. {1SM 41.6} Some will hold them up to ridicule, working against the light that God has been giving for years, and some who are weak in the faith will thus be led astray. {1SM 42.1} But others will be greatly helped by the messages. Though not personally addressed, they will be corrected, and will be led to shun the evils specified.... The Spirit of the Lord will be in the instruction, and doubts existing in many minds will be swept away. The testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages given, as scripture is explained by scripture. Many will read with eagerness the messages reproving wrong, that they may learn what they may do to be saved. . . . Light will dawn upon the understanding, and the Spirit will make an impression on minds, as Bible truth is clearly and simply presented in the messages that since 1846 God has been sending His people. These messages are to find their place in hearts, and transformations will take place.-- Letter 73, 1903. {1SM 42.2} Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 * and what do these letters Q.E.D. mean? sky Q.E.D. is an initialism of the Latin phrase quod erat demonstrandum, which translates as "which was to be demonstrated". Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
skyblue888 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 "The testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages given, as Scripture is explained by Scripture." 1 S.M.42. It means that just as one passage of Scripture is explained by another, one statement from the SoP will be explained by another. sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: skyblue888 Old light? you mean tradition and misinterpretation. Ellen White changed her positions during her life. One was on the love of God: “The Lord loves those little children who try to do right, and he has promised that they shall be in his kingdom. But wicked children God does not love. He will not take them to the beautiful City, for he only admits the good, obedient, and patient children there…. When you feel tempted to speak impatient and fretful, remember the Lord sees you, and will not love you if you do wrong. “ [AY 63, 1860 ] “Do not teach your children that God does not love them when they do wrong….Do not terrify your children by telling them of the wrath of God, but rather seek to impress them with his unspeakable love and goodness….” [bible Echo and Signs of the Times, 02-01- 1892 ] Your opinion that E.G. White changed her position is utter nonsense. . . It’s a far different thing to know the truth about God’s love/hate and telling little children that God does not love them because of their misdeeds. Never abused as a child. . . Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Q.E.D. Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 "The testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages given, as Scripture is explained by Scripture." 1 S.M.42. It means that just as one passage of Scripture is explained by another, one statement from the SoP will be explained by another. sky No offense . . . but duh! Now reading at the 4th grade level. . . Q.E.D. Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
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