The Wrath of God

[Q.E.D.]

The beat goes on, the beat goes on

Drums keep pounding a rhythm to the brain

La de da de de, la de da de da

"7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; *both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."(Gen 6:7)

"13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."(Gen 6:13)

"17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die."(Gen 6:17)

"4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth."(Gen 7:4)

"13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it."(Gen 19:13)

"14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law."(Gen 19:14)

"13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you *to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt."(Exo 12:13)

"22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate."(Lev 26:22)

"30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you."(Lev 26:30)

"4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly."(Deut 7:4)

"9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face."(Deut 7:9-10)

"3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee."(Deut 9:3)

"13 Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

14 Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they."(Deut 9:13-14)

"19 For I was afraid of the anger and hot displeasure, wherewith the LORD was wroth against you to destroy you. But the LORD hearkened unto me at that time also."(Deut 9:19)

"25 Thus I fell down before the LORD forty days and forty nights, as I fell down at the first; because the LORD had said he would destroy you."(Deut 9:25)

"26 I prayed therefore unto the LORD, and said, O Lord GOD, destroy not thy people and thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed through thy greatness, which thou hast brought forth out of Egypt with a mighty hand."(Deut 9:26)

"10 And I stayed in the mount, according to the *first time, forty days and forty nights; and the LORD hearkened unto me at that time also, and the LORD would not destroy thee."(Deut 10:10)

"3 The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, and he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: and Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said."(Deut 31:3)

To be continued . . .

Q.E.D.

[Robert]

To be continued . . .

Q.E.D.

I hope not, I'm tired of you making God look like a devil. Does God destroy? No, sin is a killer, and when you turn from God you are destroying yourself.

Since God has allowed Lucifer to tempt our original parents...and because they made him the ruler of this world, God assumes the blame of all these evils as if He did it Himself, until the day of atonement.

[Robert]

"What Pharaoh has done, will be done again and again by men until the close of probation. God destroys no man; but when a man stifles conviction, when he turns from evidence, he is sowing unbelief, and will reap as he has sown.

...You are not to say that God is to blame, that he has made a decree against you. No, he is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to the knowledge of the truth, and to the haven of eternal bliss.

No soul is ever finally deserted of God, given up to his own ways, so long as there is any hope of his salvation. God follows men with appeals and warnings and assurances of compassion, until further opportunities and privileges would be wholly in vain. The responsibility rests upon the sinner.

By resisting the Spirit of God to-day, he prepares the way for a second resistance of light when it comes with mightier power; and thus he will pass from one stage of indifference to another, until, at last, the light will fail to impress him, and he will cease to respond in any measure to the Spirit of God." Advent Review and Sabbath Herald 02-17-1891

[Q.E.D.]

I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,

I can see all obstacles in my way

Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind

It’s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)

Sun-Shiny day.

5T.120.001

This case is placed on record for our benefit. Just what took place in Pharaoh's heart will take place in every soul that neglects to cherish the light and walk promptly in its rays. God destroys no one. The sinner destroys himself by his own impenitence. When a person once neglects to heed the invitations, reproofs, and warnings of the Spirit of God, his conscience becomes seared, and the next time he is admonished, it will be more difficult to yield obedience than before. And thus with every repetition. Conscience is the voice of God, heard amid the conflict of human passions; when it is resisted, the Spirit of God is grieved.

5T.120.002

We want all to understand how the soul is destroyed. It is not that God sends out a decree that man shall not be saved. He does not throw a darkness before the eyes which cannot be penetrated. But man at first resists a motion of the Spirit of God, and, having once resisted, it is less difficult to do so the second time, less the third, and far less the fourth. Then comes the harvest to be reaped from the seed of unbelief and resistance. Oh what a harvest of sinful indulgences is preparing for the sickle!

Don't cha just love full quotes!

God is love!

Q.E.D.

[Robert]

He does not throw a darkness before the eyes which cannot be penetrated.

2 Thess 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying (deceptive) wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Notice whose doing the deceiving in verse 9.

Now verse 11

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

Wait!..."who done it?" Verse 9 states that Satan, through the man of sin, does it. After all he is called "the father of lies". Now, God says that He sends them delusion. That's He is deceiving. Hmmm?

[Gibs]

The verses of 2 Thess 2: are not studied out well enough.

2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Who is the hidden one to be revealed? Not the Papacy, it never was hidden.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

That was Satan in Paul's day and next verse cinches it.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

"That Wicked" Wicked capitalized for a reason is Satan. Anomos means Alpha lawless one.

When the Lord comes Satan is personating Him and it will be revealed he is Satan

( even him ) is added by the translators below and it is clearer to leave those off.

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Satan's produced body or aparition will be destroyed and his remaining spirit at the second resurrection.

So you might say the wrath of God is displayed here but the fact is his Presence to the saved is a comfort but to the unrepentant a consuming fire.

It looks to me like at least His final and totally consumming wrath will be after the second resurrection. No spirits of evil men or angels are to be found no more eternally. He does have a very high indignation with sin be assurred. His Wrath is Kindled High!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Who is the hidden one to be revealed? Not the Papacy, it never was hidden.

This is a bit off subject, but okay....I'll go there:

"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan"

The lawless one is back by Satan. The lawless isn't Satan.

When the person who is lawless comes, it will happen through Satan's effort, with all kinds of fake power, signs, and wonders. (CEB)

Let's go back to verse 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first (i.e., apostasy from the true gospel), and the man of sin (the anti-Christ) is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

I see it as the Papacy. Remember why? There teaching is anti-Christ. And what it that?

1 John 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit (human being) that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world

[Robert]

1 John 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit (human being) that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world

You see previous to the stage of the anti-Christ is the completion of the third angel's message. It's the gospel fully restored and preached to all the world.

And what it the gospel? That "in Christ" you are legally qualified for heaven now and in the judgment. How? Because Christ, as God, took your humanity...your fallen humanity. He assumed it in order to redeem it. Any other gospel denies this fact and therefore belongs to the anti-Christ.

[Robert]

And what it the gospel? That "in Christ" you are legally qualified for heaven now and in the judgment. How? Because Christ, as God, took your humanity...your fallen humanity. He assumed it in order to redeem it. Any other gospel denies this fact and therefore belongs to the anti-Christ.

It other words it rejects the full and complete gospel. There's some other way....That way is legalism and self-righteousness, which really is no way at all.

Look at what Paul says in Romans 6 and 7:

our old man (life) was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with

"you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ...[hence]...we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by...

You see in order for your humanity from Adam to die in Christ, Christ has to assume your life after the fall. If your humanity died in Him (and Paul states it did) then Christ assumed our flesh...our life indwelt with our bent to self. But unlike humanity, Christ defeated our bent to self. And then on the cross God abandoned Christ, who became sin for us. That humanity died forever. In return Christ took to heaven a glorified humanity free from our bent. In Christ we are perfect, legally.

The man of sin will deny this....He'll say, "No, Christ didn't do it all. We must do something...we must help God." It's a denial of justification by faith.

Only real justification by faith can experience genuine agape. Don't leave home without it.

[skyblue888]

"What Pharaoh has done, will be done again and again by men until the close of probation. God destroys no man; but when a man stifles conviction, when he turns from evidence, he is sowing unbelief, and will reap as he has sown.

...You are not to say that God is to blame, that he has made a decree against you. No, he is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to the knowledge of the truth, and to the haven of eternal bliss.

No soul is ever finally deserted of God, given up to his own ways, so long as there is any hope of his salvation. God follows men with appeals and warnings and assurances of compassion, until further opportunities and privileges would be wholly in vain. The responsibility rests upon the sinner.

By resisting the Spirit of God to-day, he prepares the way for a second resistance of light when it comes with mightier power; and thus he will pass from one stage of indifference to another, until, at last, the light will fail to impress him, and he will cease to respond in any measure to the Spirit of God." Advent Review and Sabbath Herald 02-17-1891

Robert

__________

Thanks Robert for this last post. This language from God in the Scriptures "I will destroy" has already been explained.

About God sending strong delusion... 2 Thess.2:10,11.

Mrs. White's direct comment upon that Scripture is,

"As they reject the teachings of His Word, God withdraws His Spirit and leaves them to the deceptions which they love." G.C.431.

This is what this language means just as when He said to David through the prophet, "I will raise up evil against you out of your own house."

Mrs. White's direct commentary upon these words is, "Not that God prompted these acts of wickedness but He did not exercise His power to prevent them." P.P.739.

The same when He said to Lucifer, "I will destroy you, O covering cherub," or "I will bring fire upon thee out of your own midst."

Because of David's sin God did not prevent Absolom from betraying him just as He will not prevent the countless millions of the unsaved of all ages to turn against Satan with the fury of demons after the 1,000 years. They will bring fire upon him and this fire does come from Satan's own midst for were they not his slaves? had they not chosen him as their leader? had they not been his supporters on earth?

sky

[Guest]

Satan’s Power Forever Ended

From the book Darkness Before Dawn, 1997, Chapter 10 "The Controversy Ended"

"Notwithstanding that Satan has been constrained to acknowledge God's justice and to bow to the supremacy of Christ, his character remains unchanged. The spirit of rebellion, like a mighty torrent, again bursts forth. Filled with frenzy, he determines not to yield the great controversy. The time has come for a last desperate struggle against the King of heaven. He rushes into the midst of his subjects and endeavors to inspire them with his own fury and arouse them to instant battle. But of all the countless millions whom he has allured into rebellion, there are none now to acknowledge his supremacy. His power is at an end. The wicked are filled with the same hatred of God that inspires Satan; but they see that their case is hopeless, that they cannot prevail against Jehovah. Their rage is kindled against Satan and those who have been his agents in deception, and with the fury of demons they turn upon them. {DD 59.1}

Saith the Lord: "Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. They shall bring thee down to the pit." "I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. . . . I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. . . . I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. . . . Thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." Ezekiel 28:6-8, 16-19. {DsD 59.2}

"Every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire." "The indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and His fury upon all their armies: He hath utterly destroyed them, He hath delivered them to the slaughter." "Upon the wicked He shall rain quick burning coals, fire and brimstone and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup." Isaiah 9:5; 34:2; Psalm 11:6, margin. Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth's surface seems one molten mass—a vast, seething lake of fire. It is the time of the judgment and perdition of ungodly men—"the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion." Isaiah 34:8. {DD 59.3} The wicked receive their recompense in the earth. Proverbs 11:31. They "shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 4:1. Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished "according to their deeds." The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit. His punishment is to be far greater than that of those whom he has deceived. After all have perished who fell by his deceptions, he is still to live and suffer on. In the cleansing flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch—Satan the root, his followers the branches. The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and heaven and earth, beholding, declare the righteousness of Jehovah. {DD 59.4}

Creation Delivered from Sin

Satan's work of ruin is forever ended. For six thousand years he has wrought his will, filling the earth with woe and causing grief throughout the universe. The whole creation has groaned and travailed together in pain. Now God's creatures are forever delivered from his presence and temptations. "The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they [the righteous] break forth into singing." Isaiah 14:7. And a shout of praise and triumph ascends from the whole loyal universe. "The voice of a great multitude," "as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings," is heard, saying: "Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Revelation 19:6. {DD 60.1}

While the earth was wrapped in the fire of destruction, the righteous abode safely in the Holy City. Upon those that had part in the first resurrection, the second death has no power. While God is to the wicked a consuming fire, He is to His people both a sun and a shield. Revelation 20:6; Psalm 84:11. {DD 60.2}

"I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away." Revelation 21:1. The fire that consumes the wicked purifies the earth. Every trace of the curse is swept away. No eternally burning hell will keep before the ransomed the fearful consequences of sin." {DD 60.3}

I think you are right Sky, the Spirit of Prophecy is pretty clear about it all.

Q.E.D.

Pretty clear indeed!

[Robert]

But you are reading it with preconceived ideas of God....Tradition plays a big part on how you perceive God. That, in my opinion, needs to change.

Again, read the following illustration:

Once perspective:

Son, please don't play in the street. But the son sneaks out and plays in the street. A car kills him.

Another perspective:

Son, please don't play in the street. But the son sneaks out and plays in the street. So dad gets in his car and runs over his son.

Which dad is psycho? The last one.

[Guest]

And what it the gospel? That "in Christ" you are legally qualified for heaven now and in the judgment. How? Because Christ, as God, took your humanity...your fallen humanity. He assumed it in order to redeem it. Any other gospel denies this fact and therefore belongs to the anti-Christ.

Different aspects of this gospel came directly from demons. All that forensic justification mumbo jumbo, before you were even born . It's not what the Bible teaches. It comes from men, but first it came from demons.

[Guest]

Not much time given to edit here I see. I was going to change my sentence to say:

All that forensic justification mumbo jumbo, with sanctification as an unnecessary by-product. Which may or may not come later.

[Gibs]

RLH,

Both your statements are correct however so no worry and yes edit time here is extremely short for an 80+ year old arthritic typer here.

If that mumbo jumbo was correct that strait gate and narrow way got torn down and a super wide highway made practically the whole world with all it's baggage can get through all at once. Heh heh not true by a long shot as Christ's Way is the Only Way.

Satan says man cannot, but Jesus says we can and He will help us and the proof will be in the pudding of the redeemed, all overcomers.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

And now Why?

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Is He not righteous in sending to those a strong delusion, He gave them what they cried for!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

All that forensic justification mumbo jumbo, before you were even born . It's not what the Bible teaches. It comes from men, but first it came from demons.

Yes, it came from a man, Paul. And Paul was taught by Christ. Clearly Paul teaches that "all men" were justified (not by faith), but clearly by Christ's doing & dying. Why? Because your humanity died in Him and your humanity was made obedient in Him. All other gospels are perverted and linked to the man of sin.

Does that infer faith is not needed and that all men will go to heaven. No, it simply means that Christ has legally done it all. The sinner needs to accept that truth.

[Robert]

If that mumbo jumbo was correct that strait gate and narrow way got torn down and a super wide highway made practically the whole world with all it's baggage can get through all at once.

Actually the the road is narrow....There's no room for pride in one's performance...there's no room for merit or self-justification. It requires admitting that in me, there's nothing good and my only hope is Jesus Christ. Other than that, there's not enough room for all the attainments and ego that fallen man thinks that he can bring with him.

[Robert]

Is He not righteous in sending to those a strong delusion, He gave them what they cried for!

No, He wouldn't be righteousness in doing that. God is love...He is agape. He cannot lie nor does He deceive anyone.

[JoeMo]

This is way off subject - do any of you know why the "Love of God" thread was locked down?

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

To be continued . . .

Q.E.D.

I hope not, I'm tired of you making God look like a devil. Does God destroy? No, sin is a killer, and when you turn from God you are destroying yourself.

The only problem with that is, that evil doesn't destroy itself because God withdraws. On the contrary, it grows!

God has to actively destroy the evil Himself. Nobody else can do it. I'm sorry that doesn't fit into your little Utopian world view where you cannot (for some reason) allow God to be responsible for anything, not even ridding the universe of evil.

[Gibs]

Robert, You just read it, the proof is in the pudding, in the end all will reap what they sow. We sow either for eternal life or eternal death. We will get what we in reality ask for.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[olger]

Richard correct.

Olger inspired.

[Robert]

This is way off subject - do any of you know why the "Love of God" thread was locked down?

Off subject...?

[Robert]

evil doesn't destroy itself because God withdraws. On the contrary, it grows!