The Wrath of God

[Guest]

God would not ask you to do something that was impossible for you to do. When He commands that I keep the Sabbath day holy, the very fact that He commanded it empowers me to do that very thing. His word does not return unto Him void, but is very powerful.

Powerful enough to bring it to pass. Even with my faulty equipment.

[Guest]

God bless you, Gibs.

Best of luck to you on the perfectly keeping God's Law thing. If it works for you, it will be the first time in 2,000 years; and only the 2nd time since man was created.

How do you know that? You're not even an angel, much less God. There is no way you can make that statement with any kind of certainty, since you have no way to read the hearts of men.

I'm sure I have known some who were keeping God's law. Not from birth of course, but after coming to Jesus.

God will give you the power to do His will. He said so.

[Robert]

God will give you the power to do His will. He said so.

Okay, great...then you are living Christ's life?

"Jesus...thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself."

[Robert]

God would not ask you to do something that was impossible for you to do.

"You will have that love (agape) which seeks not her own, but another's wealth." [DA 439]

Notice that in agape there's no self-interests. In other words - "Love your neighbor as you love yourself"

Please remember that there is only one command in the above, not two. No self-love is commanded, rather it is how we are born. You are to take your love of self, bend it outward towards your neighbor. You are not to seek out your own interests, but the welfare of your neighbor.

Are you doing this?

[Guest]

Okay, great...then you are living Christ's life?

No, I'm not doing anything.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

1Thess 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

God's way is to work in power. He gives grace if the sick man realizes that he needs it. God proposes to purify and refine the defiled soul, then he will implant in the heart his own righteousness and peace and health, and man will become complete in him. This is the kingdom of God within you. Day by day men are revealing whether the kingdom of God is within them. If Christ rules in their hearts, they are gaining strength of principle, with power and ability to stand as faithful sentinels, true reformers. Then, like Daniel, they make impressions upon other hearts that will never be effaced, and their influence will be carried to all parts of the world.--U. T., Oct. 12, 1896. {HL 43.5}

[Woody]

Quote:

Okay, great...then you are living Christ's life?

Good Point Robert.

[Robert]

No, I'm not doing anything.

No, Christ doesn't automatically work in you without your consent ...surrender. And if you are trying to obey the law in order to gain heaven, He won't work in you at all. If He did He would be going against the gospel, which states, in Him you are complete.

[Robert]

So the answer is "yes"? In other words God is working in you and therefore you can stand before His law and say "I am perfect"!

[Robert]

Why does every post windup into a works discussion? The subject here is "the Wrath of God"!

[Woody]

So the answer is "yes"? In other words God is working in you and therefore you can stand before His law and say "I am perfect"!

[Gibs]

The wrath of God will be upon all that refuse His way given to overcome sining in their lives and any that say that can't be as no one can stop sinning is a liar.

Christ in you and it has to be possible and for any to say He cannot give one enough power to do so better rethink this matter from scratch. It is time for all to get off their lees and get with the true salvation program.

Continuing in sin will guaranteed, get you into His consuming Presence if you don't get with the program. None have any excuse to continue in sin. Christ in you and you have all power.

The True Gospel message is not saved in sin but from past sin and from sinning. If you refuse to be saved from sinning in the here and now, well I got news for you, this will be as far as you will get, this world as it is will be your final home.

I know that is not as smooth as most like it but you got the truth and I cannot give you anything else.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Q.E.D.]

The Wrath of God

The Amalekites had been the first to make war upon Israel in the wilderness; and for this sin, together with their defiance of God and their debasing idolatry, the Lord, through Moses, had pronounced sentence upon them. . . . For four hundred years the execution of this sentence had been deferred; but the Amalekites had not turned from their sins. The Lord knew that this wicked people would, if it were possible, blot out His people and His worship from the earth. Now the time had come for the sentence, so long delayed, to be executed. {CC 155.3}

The forbearance that God has exercised toward the wicked, emboldens men in transgression; but their punishment will be none the less certain and terrible for being long delayed. . . . While He does not delight in vengeance, He will execute judgment upon the transgressors of His law. He is forced to do this, to preserve the inhabitants of the earth from utter depravity and ruin. In order to save some He must cut off those who become hardened in sin. . . . And the very fact of His reluctance to execute justice testifies to the enormity of the sins that call forth His judgments and to the severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor. {CC 155.4}

But while inflicting judgment, God remembered mercy. The Amalekites were to be destroyed, but the Kenites, who dwelt among them, were spared. This people, though not wholly free from idolatry, were worshipers of God and were friendly to Israel. Of this tribe was the brother-in-law of Moses, Hobab, who had accompanied the Israelites in their travels through the wilderness, and by his knowledge of the country had rendered them valuable assistance. {Conflict and Courage Page 155.5}

Q.E.D.

[Gibs]

QED,

Yes and for sure. We are now very close a few yrs from the time not many will live in His Presence. He said the few and we know in the last generation the saved percentage is far from what most are thinking.

But the beauty of it is, His Presence will be to the saved a loving clasp and uplift out of this exploding burning earth at His Presence. The earth will not be left a livable place for sure.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Gibs, have you stopped sinning? Are you perfect? Can you stand before God's law and say "I am holy"?

[Robert]

He will execute judgment

And he does this how? By departing...

[Q.E.D.]

QED,

Yes and for sure. We are now very close a few yrs from the time not many will live in His Presence. He said the few and we know in the last generation the saved percentage is far from what most are thinking.

But the beauty of it is, His Presence will be to the saved a loving clasp and uplift out of this exploding burning earth at His Presence. The earth will not be left a livable place for sure.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

RLH - I know this because I believe the word of God:

"9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;

11 there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.

12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless;

there is no one who does good, not even one.” (Rom. 3:9-12)

"There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Rom. 3:22-23)

Just my opinion based on my experience. I've never met anyone who is perfect. But you're right - I'm not God; and He looks at the heart and not the outward behavior. I have no right to judge. Please forgive me for being presumptuous.

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

He will execute judgment

And he does this how? By departing...

Can't quite find that in the passage. . .

Q.E.D.

[Robert]

Can't quite find that in the passage. . .

Q.E.D.

Deuteronomy 31:17 NAS

"Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, 'Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?'

[Overaged]

That's not something you can do.

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

Can't quite find that in the passage. . .

Q.E.D.

Deuteronomy 31:17 NAS

"Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, 'Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?'

Hmmmm. . .Still can't quite find that in the passage. . .

"He does not delight in vengeance, He will execute judgment upon the transgressors of His law. He is forced to do this, to preserve the inhabitants of the earth from utter depravity and ruin. In order to save some He must cut off those who become hardened in sin." {Conflict and Courage Page 155.5}

Q.E.D.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Okay, great...then you are living Christ's life?

No, I'm not doing anything.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

1Thess 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

God's way is to work in power. He gives grace if the sick man realizes that he needs it. God proposes to purify and refine the defiled soul, then he will implant in the heart his own righteousness and peace and health, and man will become complete in him. This is the kingdom of God within you. Day by day men are revealing whether the kingdom of God is within them. If Christ rules in their hearts, they are gaining strength of principle, with power and ability to stand as faithful sentinels, true reformers. Then, like Daniel, they make impressions upon other hearts that will never be effaced, and their influence will be carried to all parts of the world.--U. T., Oct. 12, 1896. {HL 43.5}

Great post Richard.

And yet after reading what you have just posted, some still make the claim that this is salvation by works. It is not. It is salvation by the merits of Jesus Christ and the grace of the Holy Spirit brings the righteousness of Christ into the life and it accomplishes everything. And even these works that the Holy Spirit enables us to do do not act a part in the salvation of the soul or in merit. The redeemed will be rewarded for these works but in and of themselves they have no merits toward our salvation. Anyone who thinks otherwise will be accused of treason at the bar of God's tribunal. See F.W.24.

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Deuteronomy 31:17 NAS

"Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day' date=' and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, 'Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?' [/quote']

Hmmmm. . .Still can't quite find that in the passage. . .

"He does not delight in vengeance, He will execute judgment upon the transgressors of His law. He is forced to do this, to preserve the inhabitants of the earth from utter depravity and ruin. In order to save some He must cut off those who become hardened in sin." {Conflict and Courage Page 155.5}

Q.E.D.

_____________

Again, no offence, but what I have said before that some here may be hard of hearing has just been confirmed one more time.

True, God executes judgment upon the transgressors of His law. He is forced to do this... He must cut off those who become hardened in sin.

Very true. But if we are going to quote Mrs. White on this we must not forget to quote the statements that explain this language.

"I was shown that Satan would entangle and then destroy, if he could, the souls he had tempted. God will bear long, but there is a bound to His mercy, a line which marks His mercy and His justice. I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them but in this way: they place themselves beyond His protection. He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then, if those who have been the objects of His special care follow their own course, independent of the Spirit of God, after repeated warnings, if they chose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them." E.G. White, Manuscript Releases, Vol.14,3.1.

The above makes it crystal clear how we are to understand such statements as Q.E.D. just quoted.

And the passage Robert quoted from Deuteronomy perfectly harmonizes with Mrs. White's statement from Manuscript Releases.

sky

[Gibs]

I do believe though that only Yahweh is the only one that can terminate the spirit of any. So in the final end Love, God must do the strange act of final eradication.

What so many at present now are not realizing is that when Christ comes again it won't be like when He was on earth among wicked and righteous men.

He will come as the Holy and Powerful God of All. Evil will be consumed at His Presence, the elements of this wicked world will melt.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

I do believe though that only Yahweh is the only one that can terminate the spirit of any. So in the final end Love, God must do the strange act of final eradication.

Gibs

_____________

Is this a new doctrine? Is God the great Terminator now?

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. "God destroys no man." C.O.L.85. "Satan is the destroyer." 6 T 388.

God's strange act is not what so many of us have been made to think and believe. I am beginning to think that Seventh-day Adventists have become the most difficult people to teach.

"God's great and strange work is to redeem and save and thus repair the ruin that sin has made." E.G. White, 3 RH 583.

Why is the work of redeeming and saving, of repairing the ruin that sin has made a strange work for God? Because God is the life-giver, not the life-taker. Satan is the destroyer, not God. So for God to be constantly at work here in this world in repairing the ruin that Satan and sin have made is a strange work.

Take Saul for example. He killed himself with a sword and since then he has been sleeping the sleep of death. If the Lord was to keep him in the grave, never to be resurrected, the language of the Bible would be that God destroyed him body and soul and yet He did not even touch him. So in no sense of the word could this be understood to mean that Saul was directly killed by God Himself. Whether it is in the here and now or at the end of the millenium the truth is that "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression, but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves to reap that which they have sown." G.C.36.

sky