The Wrath of God

[Gibs]

Yes He does as we obey the way He has made and it is our play and then He will work in us to do His good pleasure. And yes it can be done today, He is waiting for us to comply. What is our play, part? Full surrender, repentance and death of old man self that He can make of us an obedient subject and one He can safely take into His Kingdom.

Ah! Paul has it right, Romans 6:. Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles gave us the nitty gritty of the way as did Jesus.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

He is waiting for us to comply.

I have. But He will have to wait a long time if He is looking for ME to stop sinning. I am waiting on HIM not Him on me.

[Gibs]

Woody, I'm afraid God can only wait so long as the time now is getting short. He has for you what you need to overcome any and all sin but first you must be broken. He will not do that for you. He is waiting on you and woes you, heed his calling now as it is getting late. That is not legalism or liberalism but His way of salvation for us.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Man. I truly feel sorry for you Gibs. Very sorry.

[Gibs]

Woody, in my post above I misspelled woos, no He doesn't "woe" you. Hope you didn't take offense on that as it was unintentional.

You need not feel sorry for me Woody. Even though what I teach isn't popular today I'm not alone. Well almost here on this forum but not on all forums.

I have a friend in Australia that he and I worked together on a forum for some time and he told me that around him there none would be his friend. His testimony run with mine and he was not an Adventist but saw that they used to be the best with the most truth. He sent his daughters to Adventist schools and made sure they were not caught up in the new theology that has come in.

None in the denominational church are friendly to me here either but that I cannot help. There is several home church groups here out around me and we have a small one close. Most in discent are of the older people of past SDA theology and cannot be a part of the new stuff that has come in.

I just must follow Him and no man and His Word is plain and clear to me so I have no problem of finding that strait gate and narrow way. I found it is easy to find and that way is very easy. It just has become my way and I like to walk in it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

When we sin ....

Technically we are in a state of sin. Paul tells us all have sinned and all are failing to live Christ's life. See Romans 3:23. So God's law is never satisfied with your performance.

[Robert]

Trouble is Woody that the time is very soon comming when the door will be closed ....

Let me guess - then we have to be perfect? We have to stand before God's law perfect? This is utter legalism....This is what the Judaizers of Paul's day taught. You know what this type of teaching does? It takes your eyes off Jesus and on our performance. When we are honest we will admit we aren't perfect and therefore the hope of salvation goes out the window. That's what legalism will do - causes you to look to the law for your salvation instead of what Christ did 2000 years ago.

[Woody]

Yes Robert. This legalism is the strongest tool of the Devil in our time period.

[Robert]

To be an overcomer is not works ...

And if we don't overcome fully? No heaven. That's works.

[Woody]

Gibs. I've never met an overcomer. And I've been looking. When do you suppose one will arrive?

[Tom Wetmore]

Some of the folk I have encountered that most zealously cling to that notion seem the farthest from achieving it. Oddly enough, some of the folk that reject the notion of salvation by perfection seem the closest to it.

[Robert]

Some of the folk I have encountered that most zealously cling to that notion seem the farthest from achieving it. Oddly enough, some of the folk that reject the notion of salvation by perfection seem the closest to it.

That's good point. As a legalist I was a terrible person....As one resting in Christ others have seen a change...not that I'm perfect.

[Woody]

How much faith does one need? (the grain of a mustard seed.)

[Gibs]

I'm telling you all straight, the Bible stands by me and Sister White, that if you don't find His Way of becoming an overcomer you will reap the wrath of God.

To not take His Way that He made is denying Him. You are denying His power, Divine Nature in you that you may be an overcomer.

I could tell you more but it is not yet time as it may make some angry with me but you would have no right as I'm giving you the truth and it cannot be denied.

Do not be hurt of the second death! None need to, He made a way of escape, overcome!

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Need anymore be said? I think not, just please for heavens sake receive His Word.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

I'm telling you all straight, the Bible stands by me and Sister White, that if you don't find His Way of becoming an overcomer you will reap the wrath of God.

To not take His Way that He made is denying Him. You are denying His power, Divine Nature in you that you may be an overcomer.

I could tell you more but it is not yet time as it may make some angry with me but you would have no right as I'm giving you the truth and it cannot be denied.

Well I do deny it Gibs. For the message of 'works' is straight from the Devil himself. But have no fear - just come out with what you believe. Lay it on the line. By for me - I will stick with scripture - not your theories.

That being said - no anger at you - just a sad heart for what you must be going through. I have to agree with what Tom said. Those that believe in works usually are the ones that realize how far from God they are. For them I pray they realize the Grace of God before it is too late for them.

[Gibs]

Woody says, "I will stick with scripture - not your theories."

Well it would take a long post to lay them all but here is just one that ought to be so forthright you would need no interpretation.

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Gibs,

I used to be in the same place as you are currently. I was one miserable piece of poop - lamenting my own sinfulness and unworthiness, having the members of the "frozen chosen" (aka "historical" Adventists) critique my every action or non-action; and lording their superior righteousness over me. I was getting nowhere in overcoming and everywhere in despairing my salvation. When I abandoned legalism and trying to "earn" my salvation by pleasing God, my life changed. When I started "trusting" what Jesus said - the "whosoever believeth will not perish but have eternal Life"; that "God sent not His son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved", It changed my life and my ability to obtain victory over sin. I now had a Partner with infinite power to enable me! I may not be sinless; but I'm doing better than I was as a legalist. Most important, I am sure of my salvation rather than constantly worrying if I am "good enough" to be saved. I am a much more productive member of my church; and a much more effective witness to those around me.

I pray for you brother. I have no anger towards you - only pity and sorrow for the fretful and fearful life you must have. As I've said before - fear empowers the devil the same way faith empowers God. May God bless you and open your eyes to His love and grace.

[Woody]

Excellent post and sentiments JoeMo.

Thank you.

[Q.E.D.]

Hmmmm. . . Is this an example of "God destroys no man" as God "allows Satan" to destroy sinners after God "lets them go" by commanding Isralites to execute idolaters with primitive weapons at hand?

"1 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones."(Lev 20:1-2)

Q.E.D.

[Tom Wetmore]

Gibs,

...As I've said before - fear empowers the devil the same way faith empowers God..

And the faith that empowers is all about love for perfect love drives out fear. A common element of the concept of faith and love is trust. And where there is trust there is no fear.

What you have stated marks ( in an eschatological sense) a key difference between the saved and the unsaved as described in Revelation. That key difference in the powers of the two sides of the conflict is that one rules with force, resulting in fear, and the other rules by love, resulting in trust.

[Gibs]

Tom,

There is absolutely no fear in Him who truly is one of His. Many will soon die of fear of what is coming upon the world. I suppose some of God's very own will die too because of their witness. But they will die the death of this poor old body we are in knowing with certainity without fear they will be with Him in the first resurrection.

Not so with those who truly know not God although a great display may have been made. The True Way is rock solid but it is the few who are in it. Jesus said it, and I believe it!

Certainly we can know without much thinking what the problem is here. What's that?

Well it is simple, a false way has been laid that most of Christianity has taken up that will not lead to the prize. No the True Way is not harder but the worldly will not fall and be broken on Him in repentance and full surrender of their all.

As Paul says, the old man must die! Rom 6: is a great awakening read for any and all!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

There is much talk about the way to attain to righteousness but we must make sure we have the genuine article.

"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness. This the sinner owes to the law, but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way he can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ."

This is the only way the sinner can attain to righteousness, the only way he can form a character after the divine similitude.

Again, What is the only way the sinner can attain to righteousness, to obedience to the law?

"Bring to God the merits of Christ."

That brothers and sisters is faith, even living faith! See F.W.64.

"The matter of salvation is just as simple as ABC. But we don't understand it." F.W.64.

At the time when Mrs. White wrote these words she stated that not one in one hundred understood this Bible truth that is so necessary to our present and eternal welfare. (1 S.M.360)

"Bring to God the merits of Christ."

What exactly happens when, with the simple faith of a little child, we bring to God the merits of Christ? (just as simple as that... bringing to God the merits of Christ, and this is our privilege to do so on a daily basis)

Immediately following these words, "Bring to God them merits of Christ," Mrs. White explains what happens:

1. the Father places the obedience of His Son to the sinner's account.

2. Christ's righteousness is accepted in place of man's failure.

3. The Father receives, pardons, justifies, the repentant, believing soul, treats him as though he were righteous, and loves him as He loves His Son...

And then she says, "This is how faith is accounted righteousness, and the pardoned soul goes on from grace to grace, from light to a greater light."

This is all found on page 101 of Faith & Works.

On page 94 we read, "When we seek to gain Heaven through the merits of Christ the soul makes progress... we may go on from strength to strength, from victory to victory, for through Christ the grace of God has worked out our complete salvation."

Notice that all of the above will take place in the life of the needy suppliant, when, with the simple faith of a little child, he/she brings to God the merits of Christ.

"Bring to God the merits of Christ."

Hence we read, "Unless he makes it his life business to behold the uplifted Savior and to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." T.M.93.

So brother, sister, What must we do in order to be saved? What is our life business?

"Bring to God the merits of Christ."

"The matter of salvation is just as simple as ABC. But we don't understand it." F.W.64.

sky

[Gibs]

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

The following is a trifle long but on this subject EGW is a prolific one. Please do hang in there and catch her great insight.

The Simplicity of Being Saved

He who will lay hold of Christ's righteousness need not wait one moment that he himself may blot out his own sins. He need not wait until he has made a suitable repentance before he may take hold upon Christ's righteousness. We do not understand the matter of salvation. It is just as simple as ABC. But we don't understand it. {FW 64.3}

Now, how is it that a man will repent? Is it anything of himself? No; because the natural heart is at enmity with God. Then how can the natural heart stir itself up to repentance when it has no power to do so? What is it that brings man to repentance? It is Jesus Christ. How does He bring man to repentance? There are a thousand ways that He may do this. {FW 64.4}

The God of heaven is working upon human minds all the time. An invitation is given in the Word of God, and it is not only given there, but it is given by all those who believe on

Jesus Christ and are revealing Christ in their characters. They may not preach a discourse; they may not come directly to a person and speak to him in regard to his condition of impenitence, yet such a one sees when brought into connection with any of the disciples of Jesus Christ that there is something there that he does not have.

Why repentance toward God?--Because the sinner has broken God's law, and he must repent and come back to obedience of it. He is to show to the world that there is a moral law which is the great standard of righteousness, and that Satan would break it down, if possible, and have man erect a standard of his own. God's word is sure standing fast forever; and as we look into that mirror, we see the defects of our characters. Will any stand before God's mirror, and because it shows them their defects, say that it is not true? We should not, as soon as our defects are pointed out, go away and forget what manner of persons we are; we must plead the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour by living faith, that pardon may be written opposite our names. We must wash our robes of character, and make them white in the blood of the Lamb. {RH, December 18, 1888 par. 18}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Gibs, I dont know how many times, by now, I have quoted these statements from F.W.64,38. And you never acknowledged them!

The last you quoted says, "... We should not, as soon as our defects are pointed out, go away and forget what manner of persons we are; we must plead the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour by living faith, that pardon may be written opposite our names. We must wash our robes of character, and make them white in the blood of the Lamb. {RH, December 18, 1888 par. 18}

Notice how it says that we must plead the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour by "living faith," that pardon may be written opposite our names and wash our robes of character and make them white in the blood of the Lamb...

Now we need a statement in which she defines what "living faith" is. We need not look very far for that definition is found on the same page 64 you quoted from. You must have missed it or somehow.

"How has it been with His disciples in all ages of the world? Why, they have learned of Jesus; they have been in His school; they have been His students, and have learned the lessons of Christ in regard to the living connection that the soul has with God. That living faith is essential for our salvation that we should lay hold upon the merits of the blood of the crucified and risen Saviour, on Christ, our righteousness."

So brother Gibs, what is living faith?

sky

[Gibs]

Sky,

Living faith is faith in Him and His Word who alone is the life. The eternal Life Faith. Never in men and their twisting things especially of salvation all up.

"It is dangerous for us to make flesh our arm. We should lean upon the arm of infinite power. God has been revealing this to us for years. We must have living faith in our hearts, and reach out for larger knowledge and more advanced light. {BLJ 114.2}

Do not trust to the wisdom of any person, or to the investigations of any person. Go to the Scriptures for yourselves, search the inspired Word with humble hearts, lay aside your preconceived opinions; for you will obtain no benefit unless you come as children to the Word of God. You should say, “If God has anything for me, I want it. If God has given evidence from His Word to this or that person that a certain thing is truth, He will give it to me. I can find that evidence if I search the Scriptures with constant prayer, and I can know that I do know what is truth.” {BLJ 114.3}

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I especially love the last part of that verse, "He will shew you things to come"!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world