The Wrath of God

[skyblue888]

Robert, you quoted these words:

"In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure; but all, from pure, genuine love, will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132]

________

As though only in Heaven will we be able to live the life of Heaven. But this is misleading for we read,

"To His faithful followers Christ has been a daily companion and familiar friend. They have lived in close contact, in constant communion with God. Upon them the glory of the Lord has risen. In them the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ has been reflected. Now they rejoice in the undimmed rays of the brightness and glory of the King in His majesty. They are prepared for the communion of heaven, for they have Heaven in their hearts." C.O.L.421.

So Jesus returns to take home with Him a people who already have Heaven in their hearts which means that they were living the life of Heaven on this earth.

sky

[skyblue888]

BTW, we've drifted from the subject....

I know somehow Gibs always brings us back to this subject no matter what the discussion is.

sky :)

[Robert]

So Jesus returns to take home with Him a people who already have Heaven in their hearts which means that they were living the life of Heaven on this earth.

sky

Yes, but that's future:

The last generation of Christians "love not their lives even unto death". They have been cut off by the world. They have no place to lay their heads. These will experience sinless living in sinful flesh, but they will not know it. It's the ultimate fruit of resting in Christ's perfect work of redemption. They, like all of us, get into heaven by the imputed righteousness of Christ.

As for now we are Laodicea.

[skyblue888]

Robert' date=' you quoted these words:

"In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure; but all, from pure, genuine love, will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132']

________

As though only in Heaven will we be able to live the life of Heaven. But this is misleading for we read,

"To His faithful followers Christ has been a daily companion and familiar friend. They have lived in close contact, in constant communion with God. Upon them the glory of the Lord has risen. In them the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ has been reflected. Now they rejoice in the undimmed rays of the brightness and glory of the King in His majesty. They are prepared for the communion of heaven, for they have Heaven in their hearts." C.O.L.421.

So Jesus returns to take home with Him a people who already have Heaven in their hearts which means that they were living the life of Heaven on this earth.

sky

____________

And this is shown by the solemn declaration from the lips of God Himself that at the time when probation closes God will have a righteous people upon the earth:

"Let him who is unrighteous be unrighteous still and let him who is filthy be filthy still; and let him who is righteous be righteous still and let him who is holy be holy still." Rev.22:11.

There will be only two groups of people at that time, the obedient and the disobedient and their destiny will be forever fixed.

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

So Jesus returns to take home with Him a people who already have Heaven in their hearts which means that they were living the life of Heaven on this earth.

sky

Yes, but that's future:

The last generation of Christians "love not their lives even unto death". They have been cut off by the world. They have no place to lay their heads. These will experience sinless living in sinful flesh, but they will not know it. It's the ultimate fruit of resting in Christ's perfect work of redemption. They, like all of us, get into heaven by the imputed righteousness of Christ.

As for now we are Laodicea.

But you just said a moment ago by quoting Romans 3:10ff, and that is your constant argument, that on the earth there is none righteous no not one. But now you are saying that in the future, before the return of Christ, God will have a holy people.

sky

*In our previous discussions regarding Job it is your point constantly that Job could not be a righteous man for on the earth that can never happen and that we will have to wait until we are in Heaven in order to be holy.

[Robert]

.... now you are saying that in the future, before the return of Christ, God will have a holy people.

Christ: "There is none good but one, that is, God"

Holy? I said that during the tribulation God's remnant will be cut off from the world (see Rev 13:17). At that time those who have placed their faith in Christ's and His righteousness will experience the agape of God.

However, they will not view themselves as righteous. They will have no confidence in the flesh...they will be trusting only in Christ Jesus and His imputed righteousness. The fruit of that will be that "they loved not their lives even unto death."

Still, even though the remnant will be experiencing sinless living (again, they won't feel sinless), they still retain a fallen humanity indwelt with sin. This, in itself, disqualifies them for heaven.

[JoeMo]

We had the most amazing sermon this morning. In the midst of the most heinous sin of rebellion and rejection of God in the history of creation, in the midst of the worst physical agony that can be experienced, during the most intense emotional pain one can have, with His Father's back turned to Him because He has become "sin", Jesus says "Forgive them, Father; for they know not what they do". I don't hear much wrath in that statement; in fact I hear nothing but love, grace, and forgiveness. If Jesus can forgive His would-be murderers (they didn't really murder Him; Christ voluntarily laid down His life) in His darkest hour, isn't He willing to forgive me? Is there anything I can possibly do that compares to trying to kill God?

Wasn't God's wrath against individual sinners spent on Christ at the cross? Didn't Jesus say "it is finished"? Isn't His wrath and the end of the world spent to protect His remnant and rid the world of 'Sin" (capital "S" intentional) rather than to punish individual sinners? Wouldn't punishing individual sinners for sins that have already been atoned for be equivalent to "double jeopardy"?

EGW says somewhere in The Desire of Ages that if we truly love God and put our faith in Him, by following our own inclinations, we are carrying out God's will (or something like that).

If I spend all my life focusing on self and my unworthiness and sinfulness, fearing God's wrath, I become a self-fulfilling prophecy - I continue in my sin because that's all I think about. If I spend my life marveling at the love, grace, and mercy of my Savior, I become a self-fulfilling prophecy - I emulate my Hero and become like Him because he fully occupies my mind. I don't have the time or the energy to continue in sin because all my time and energy are focused on Christ. (I am not saying I am sinless here; if I was sinless, why would I need a Savior?) I will serve Him out of love and trust (aka faith) in His redemptive grace; not out of fear of His wrath. Fear empowers Satan the same way faith empowers God in our lives. Satan is the boogey-man; and wants us all to be very afraid. Praise God that Jesus has already saved us - who accept His grace by faith in Him - from the boogey-man; and we have nothing to fear! Didn't Jesus say "fear not"?

[Gibs]

He made overcoming very easy for us all but many don't like the way He made to do it. They want salvation just handed to them and remain as they are and not fall broken on Him and repent and die of their own will and give it to do His.

Only the overcomer will escape His wrath with sin. Love still does and always will have wrath with sin and rebellion. LOVE, GOD, must destroy it to never rise again!

No one continuing in sin will be in Heaven to start the same old problem over again.

Na 1:9 ¶ What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.

We deny Him when we don't take His Strength, His Divine Nature in us by being broken of self and surrendered completely to Him. With out Him we are on our own and hopeless. His indwelling is our only hope of Gloryl

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

He made overcoming very easy for us all but many don't like the way He made to do it.

I'm glad for you that you are perfect. Saul the Pharisee said the same: Phil 3:6 "Concerning the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless"

But the converted Paul didn't view himself as righteous:

7 But what things were gain to me (see the list in Phil 3:5-6), those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.

The converted Paul considered his righteousness before God's law as mere dung! No longer was there self-righteousness and pride, but humility.

EGW: "There can be no self-exaltation, no boastful claim to freedom from sin, on the part of those who walk in the shadow of Calvary’s cross."

[Robert]

So the anger of the Lord was aroused against them, and He departed. And when the cloud departed from above the tabernacle, suddenly Miriam became leprous, as white as snow (Numbers 12:9, 10).

Notice Miriam takes on this disease when God departs!

[Gibs]

Here is another one,

Nu 26:9 And the sons of Eliab; Nemuel, and Dathan, and Abiram. This is that Dathan and Abiram, which were famous in the congregation, who strove against Moses and against Aaron in the company of Korah, when they strove against the LORD:

Nu 26:10 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up together with Korah, when that company died, what time the fire devoured two hundred and fifty men: and they became a sign.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Guest]

A perversion of right principles is a transgression of God's law. Those who in their actions pervert the grand principles of His holy law are under condemnation, for the righteousness of Christ cannot cover one unconfessed sin. The law has been lightly regarded. "Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil." We must obey God's law, if we are loyal to Him and accepted by Him.

The first step toward obedience is to examine ourselves in the light of the law, thus discovering the penalty of transgression. Those of God's people who do not purify their souls by coming into clearer and still clearer light are a reproach to His glorious cause. Too often those who should remain true and faithful to principle are obnoxious to God, because in His justice He cannot endure the sins that they cherish--sins that not only lead them into false paths but cause others also to be led astray. {17MR 241.3}

[Gibs]

RLH,

Amen! And to be a teacher of error is a very grievious sin, makes that one a co destroyer with Satan.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

the righteousness of Christ cannot cover one unconfessed sin....

Confession is acknowledging that you aren't keeping the law.....

[Gibs]

When we sin and break the law we should know and realize immediately we need to bolster our love. True love will not break any of the Law of Liberty. We prove we Love Him and have love by whether we sin or not.

If sin is committed it must be confessed and repented of to be forgiven. No repentance, no forgiveness. Yes forgiveness is waiting but is not applied until sorrow and resolve to not do it again.

He is absolutely faithful to forgive when we repent have true sorrow of heart for the evil we have done. It has made us "sick" and our resolve is to never go back to the wallow.

God is LOVE, but God, Love also has wrath with sin, loves the sinner, wants him to repent. But when one won't he can expect the wrath of Love to come down on him in the end. Sin and sinners will be no more before long.

He will save to the utmost all those who will come and do His Will which is righteousness.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: RLH

the righteousness of Christ cannot cover one unconfessed sin....

Confession is acknowledging that you aren't keeping the law.....

No it's not. It's acknowledging that you broke the law. NOT that you are still breaking it, or that you will never keep it. Quite the contrary actually.

We are called to confess and forsake our sins. Not, confess and continue, confess and continue.

That's not to say we will never slip or fall. But we have to be willing to allow God to change us. Otherwise, we're lost.

[Woody]

Quote:

confess and continue, confess and continue.

This is my experience. Praise God HE forgives.

And if He wants to change things - I've asked and given Him permission. For it won't be changed with MY power.

It's ALL up to Him.

[Gibs]

Trouble is Woody that the time is very soon comming when the door will be closed to come and get forgiveness again. So if we went out and sinned and didn't get forgiveness in time we done missed the boat.

It is imperative that we get the victory over the devil and his things in us because if we don't it shows we have him, satan for a master to a degree and our Lord is a Jealous Bridegroom.

Paul states,

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

All that is up to God Gibs. I've given Him permission. The rest and timing is up to Him. When HE sees fit - HE will do it.

I have total confidence in His timing. I can trust Him.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

So if we went out and sinned and didn't get forgiveness in time we done missed the boat.

........if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, smells like a duck....the very essence of salvation by works.

[JoeMo]

Well said, Woody. That's how I see it.

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged".For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. (Matt. 7:1-2)

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." (Luke 6:37)

"21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times." (Matt. 18:21-23) Isn't that God's standard? That seems like enough times that we humans would lose count.

Many times, people are so set in what some would call habitual sin (gluttony, alcohol, drugs, porn) prior to conversion that, even though they truly want to change, it is a slow and painful process. Should they give up just because they are slow in overcoming - even with God's grace? I say never give up!

The all-knowing God doesn't see us sin and say "you ignorant infidel! How many times must I bring you to this point before you overcome?" He is never frustrated, because He knew us and everything we would ever do before we were born. In His foreknowledge and love, He says "well; 1,000 times times down, only 250 times to go. Keep trying my son! Here's some more grace and power!"

Another thing, even though God has helped me overcome much, He always shows me new places in my life that I need to work on; and He continually gives me the grace to work on it. And it usually gets fixed - but in His time, not mine. True - I must use the grace so freely offered and give Him permission to partner with me in overcoming, or I would never overcome anything. Nonetheless, He always sees me as perfect; because when He looks at me, He lovingly sees the righteousness of His only begotten Son, Jesus. As the song says "I'm so glad I'm a part of the family of God!"

[Gibs]

Woody, did you ever stop and think that perhaps He is waiting for you to comply with the way He has made that He can come and give you His Divine Nature that you will have power to discontinue in sinning.

Sure JoeMoe Rome wasn't built in a day either and we don't get all things righted ker plop either. But many now will have to do in a few short yrs. or less what it has taken us yrs to get done in our lives of finding the way He has made for us to be overcomers. It must be done! Read these!

Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Re 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Re 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Re 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Re 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Our Saviour himself said those above!

To be an overcomer is not works or is it legalism or liberalism, it is by the death of self and full surrender that He can come in and be the Master and you his malleable subject. Malleable = easily shaped and formed to the desired design. Or impressionable.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

Woody, did you ever stop and think that perhaps He is waiting for you to comply with the way He has made that He can come and give you His Divine Nature that you will have power to discontinue in sinning.

Yes. That did cross my mind. I checked - and yes I have complied.

[Gibs]

Very good, Woody, then you now have His power to walk as He walked. You are Blessed!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Very good, Woody, then you now have His power to walk as He walked. You are Blessed!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

LOL. Very funny Gibs. He gives as and when He pleases. He doesn't do it to our command.