Are We Redeemed?

[Naomi]

Thank you Gibs for your words spoken in love and concern. you are so correct, we must walk with Him continuously keeping him in mind and heart.

Quote:

I pray the same for all who with all the heart and soul love Him formost above all.

Please know that your prayers are greatly appreciated ... it is important that we pray for each other ... that we may all walk with Him as did Enoch.

[JoeMo]

May God bless all those on this thread who have turned from a spirit of contention to a spirit of blessing and encouragement! God is so good - He fills us with so many blessings that we overflow with blessings to others! We make this place a little bit of heaven!

[Gibs]

I run acroos this from EGW and it dawned on me it might fit here. I wasn't looking for this type of counsel at the time, This is truly excellent and it is some long but will be well worth the time spent, Last paragraph sums it up, just a few minutes is all!

"Adam was a created being, dependent upon the tree of life for his existence. Through his disobedience, he forfeited the precious privilege of eating of this tree, which was to perpetuate the life breathed into him by God, and for which he was dependent on God. After disobeying God, the precious gifts and endowments which he derived from God were no more his. Adam's disobedience to God's commands brought the human family under the death penalty. "In Adam all die," and eternal death, not eternal life, is the final punishment of all who continue in transgression. {ST, June 17, 1897 par. 4}

But Christ said, "I will take the penalty of Adam's transgression." In Eden the first Gospel sermon was preached. God said to the serpent, "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." {ST, June 17, 1897 par. 5}

And "when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, . . . to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons." Christ died in behalf of the human family, giving men a probation, that they might have opportunity to see the evil of sin, and to choose as their leader, either the apostate who was expelled from heaven, or the Prince of Life, who gave himself as an atoning sacrifice, that all might return to their loyalty. {ST, June 17, 1897 par. 6}

Christ's suffering and death have placed life in and through him upon an eternal basis of security. He took human nature. He became flesh even as we are. He was oft hungry, thirsty, and weary. He was sustained by food, and refreshed by sleep. He had natural affection; for we see him weeping in sympathy with the sorrows of others, and lamenting over the retribution coming upon Jerusalem because of her impenitence. While in this world, Christ lived a life of complete humanity in order that he might stand as a representative of the human family. He was tempted in all points like as we are, that he might be able to succor them that are tempted. As the Prince of Life in human flesh, he met the prince of darkness, and, passing over the ground where Adam fell, he endured every test that Adam failed to endure. Every temptation that could be brought against fallen humanity, he met and overcame. {ST, June 17, 1897 par. 7}

Had he not been fully human, Christ could not have been our substitute. He could not have worked out in humanity that perfection of character which it is the privilege of all to reach. He was the light and the life of the world. He came to this earth to work in behalf of men, that they might no longer be under the control of Satanic agencies. But while bearing human nature, he was dependent upon the Omnipotent for his life. In his humanity, he laid hold of the divinity of God; and this every member of the human family has the privilege of doing. Christ did nothing that human nature may not do if it partakes of the divine nature. {ST, June 17, 1897 par. 8}

Have faith folks, we sure can do it, He in us is the answer!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Through his disobedience....

What law did Adam break in the Ten Commandments?

[Gibs]

Adam was put on a test to obey and he chose like Satan to disobey and it appears Adam wasn't deceived but succumbed it appears to be with his wife.

Here is the commandment God gave to him and Eve.

Ge 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Adam died in his 931'st yr.

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Adam had taken on another master. He had chosen Satan.

Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

And that is where it all started. Then that disobedience fell into all his posterity to put out and man was strong enough at first as Enoch is the proof of it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

I agree, Gibs - Adam and Eve disobeyed a direct command from God; not necessarily of the 10 Commandments. In doing so; they essentially handed the "keys" of the planet over to satan. Jesus is coming soon to forcibly take them back. That is our eternal hope. Christ in us - His grace (unmerited favor) , His power, and His sacrifice is what will bring us into His Kingdom forever.

[Gibs]

Man since the flood were given the Spirit of God in them If they would receive it that he might have strength over the evil ones.

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

What "god" did Adam put before God by eating the fruit?

[Gibs]

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

The god of this world, Satan, and this is where he took over, Adam became the servant of another master, Satan. He chose to do Satans bidding over God!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

The god of this world, Satan, and this is where he took over, Adam became the servant of another master, Satan. He chose to do Satans bidding over God!

I can't find "do not eat of the fruit of the tree" in the Ten Commandments. Sorry....

[Gibs]

Robert, Adam obeyed Satan rather than God, so he broke this one,

Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Gotta go with Gibs on this one. There may not have been a "10 Commandment" law then; but God gave Adam and Eve a direct face-to-face order; and they disobeyed. Furthmore, it was not God who hid Himself from them; they hid from God. IMO, the hiding from God was an even worse sin than eating the fruit. They quit trusting in God; thereby breaking off their intimacy with Him.

When we sin,through our ingrained fear of the wrath of God, we sometimes refuse to approach Him for forgiveness and grace until He "calms down a little". Aren't we committing the same sin of not trusting His love and grace? We hide from God; and He has to seek us out.

Thank You, Father for not turning Your back on us, even when we turn our backs on You!

JoeMo

[Gibs]

True JoeMo, and on top of that we must realize even though we may not like to, is the fact that whom we do ultimately obey he is the one we are having before the other. In the case dicussing it is obedience to God or Satan.

So yes in disobeying God's implicit command not to eat or touch the fruit of that true, they in disobeying took before them Satan over God. Thus breaking the commandment - - 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

If we are truly God's and love Him with ALL our heart and soul we desire to please Him above all! It then is no small matter to us when we fall back in the least to do of the Devil. Immediately we must even if He slay me confess our sin and with True Repentance be forgiven and set the resolve to follow the one we love Above All. We do not want to continue any more in any sin and we sure can be the coveted overcomer as He in us is our strength.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Robert, Adam obeyed Satan rather than God, so he broke this one,

Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

I wouldn't say he obeyed Satan...rather He loved Eve and didn't want to lose her. So He said I'll die with her....By doing so he turned his back on God.

[Robert]

...in disobeying took before them Satan over God.

They didn't say "We want to follow Satan"....What they saw was a serpent that could talk. The serpent basically told them that you can be as gods - just eat the fruit! So the temptation, if you will, was to move up the ladder. In other words you need to become as god....Wasn't that Satan's temptation? "I will be as the most high"?

That's iniquity...that's our bent to self - i.e., self-seeking. It's striving to be important - to move up the ladder - wanting to be # 1.

But here's a problem: How could Adam & Eve by tempted by sin? Then had no indwelling sin (the sinful nature). Don't try to answer this, because it is unexplainable.

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

...in disobeying took before them Satan over God.

They didn't say "We want to follow Satan"....What they saw was a serpent that could talk. The serpent basically told them that you can be as gods - just eat the fruit! So the temptation, if you will, was to move up the ladder. In other words you need to become as god....Wasn't that Satan's temptation? "I will be as the most high"?

That's iniquity...that's our bent to self - i.e., self-seeking. It's striving to be important - to move up the ladder - wanting to be # 1.

But here's a problem: How could Adam & Eve by tempted by sin? Then had no indwelling sin (the sinful nature). Don't try to answer this, because it is unexplainable.

No, Robert it is not unexplainabe. Adam and Eve and all of us and the angels are free beings, free to choose to be obedient to our Creator God or not to be. They didn't have to say anything, they did it, took Satan's word and touched and ate and knew of God's direct command, "thou shalt not"!

Satan made it to them that knowing and doing evil would make them as gods. - - Ge 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Satan in the beginning was higher than Adam and Eve and, - - Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

So now do you see sin must be rooted out of the redeemed in order to be saved as He cannot take ones into the kingdom who are not yet broken to sinning. Dead to sinning is what we are to find the way of and it is set up so easy that not one need be lost. None have any excuse to not attaing the stature He needs of us to be. Sure we are nothing in the warfare but He in us is the ALL and ALL the POWERFULL help to give us the victory. He does not leave us powerless!

Lu 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

( Abiding within is our only hope )

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

No, Robert it (sin) is not unexplainable.

“Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty; thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness.” Sin is a mysterious, unexplainable thing. There was no reason for its existence; to seek to explain it is to seek to give a reason for it, and that would be to justify it. Sin appeared in a perfect universe, a thing that was shown to be inexcusable and exceeding sinful. [The Signs of the Times April 28, 1890]

[Robert]

So now do you see sin must be rooted out of the redeemed in order to be saved....

Acts 15:1 Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved"..... Then some of the believers (Judaizers) who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law from Moses."

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free (from under law), and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised (one of the requirements from "the book of the law"), Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law (all the rules). 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace (i.e., you are lost - no heaven for you)

[JoeMo]

I went with Gibs last time; this time I gotta go with Robert. We are not saved by our works; we are saved by grace through faith.... See Ephesians 2.

[Robert]

Adam and Eve and all of us and the angels are free beings, free to choose to be obedient to our Creator God or not to be.

[Robert]

Sin is a mysterious, unexplainable thing [Ellen G. White]

Did you get that, Gibs?

[Gibs]

It may well be unexplainable as to why in the first place Satan did sin but it could only happen where one is free to sin or not to.

So the following did come to happen,

"But there was one that chose to pervert this freedom. Sin originated with him who, next to Christ, had been most honored of God and who stood highest in power and glory among the inhabitants of heaven. Before his fall, Lucifer was first of the covering cherubs, holy and undefiled. "Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering. . . .Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." Ezekiel 28:12-15. {DD 1.3}

This "iniquity" then do you suppose will be taken into Heaven? Means wickedness, sin, etc.

Evil was created - - Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

It looks to me as He, God warned all of it of what would be the outcome. Satan found it in himself to be the one it would be found in as he saw he was so elevated.

With His beings being free it was a liability He saw from the beginning and made a way for restitution. I understand Satan and his had their time for that and continued in sin.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

This "iniquity" then do you suppose will be taken into Heaven? Means wickedness, sin, etc.

No, that's no true....

The root meaning of this word is “to be bent.” As used in Scripture it refers to our spiritual condition. Note the following texts:

Psalm 51:5. David was “shapen in iniquity” from his very birth. This was his spiritual condition since physically he was handsome [1 Samuel 16:12]. The primary meaning of iniquity is not an act but a condition. As a result of the fall, man by very nature is spiritually “bent,” so that the driving force of his very nature is love of self. Paul defines it as “the law of sin and death” [Romans 7:23; 8:2]. It is this condition that is the basis of all our sinning, and which makes us slaves to sin [Romans 3:9-12; 7:14].

Isaiah 53:6. Two things are revealed in this text. 1. Everyone of us has gone astray, since we have all turned or bent “to his own way.” 2. This own-way-ness (i.e., self-centeredness) is synonymous with iniquity, which was laid upon Christ our sin bearer; and it was this “sin in the flesh” that Christ “condemned” on the cross [Romans 8:2-3].

Iniquity, therefore, is simply seeking our own way, a condition we are born with and which (without a Saviour) makes it impossible to do genuine righteousness, since the law of God requires even our motives to be pure [Matthew 5:20-22, 27-28]. In contrast to iniquity or self-seeking is agape (divine love) which is of God and which “seeketh not her own” [1 Corinthians 13:5].

Isaiah 64:6. Because man by nature is “shapen in iniquity,” all the righteousness produced by him through his own efforts is like filthy rags before God, because it is polluted with self-love. According to Zech. 3:3, 4, “filthy garments” are equated with iniquity. In contrast to these filthy garments of ours (self-righteousness), the white raiment of Christ (His righteousness) is offered to the Laodicean church so that they may be truly clothed, and “the shame of [their] nakedness do not appear” before the judgment seat of God [Revelation 3:18; 10:3-4].

[Robert]

Evil was created - - Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

No, God didn't create evil. He created Lucifer in His image after His likeness. However, God knew Lucifer would rebel against His agape love. Because of this God assumes the blame....I've talked about this before.

If God creates evil then God is evil....You misunderstand the Scriptures.

[Gibs]

Well you may choose not to believe His Word that is your choice and I see many today that make of it what they want. But I tell you now, He says what He means and means what He says.

All His Creation has a purpose.

Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.