Are We Redeemed?

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Yes' date=' but God can't do anything in you without your consent. He has to have permission. [/quote']

Robert, For sure God made us to be free and so for sure He won't do anything in you unless you consent, invite Him to be the Master in your soul temple. I have stated that more than once here. Not that He couldn't, but then he would be taking away your freedom.

If we choose Heaven to be our future home now is when we make it clear we would be happy there. We choose to do only His will now and have come to love what He loves and so those Laws are in our hearts to do and our first desire.

When we truly so choose, He does come in and takes up abode in us and we are empowered over all evil and sin and rebellion as we now have the Love of God in us. Christ broke open the path and showed us it can be done and we have His strength now to do the same.

Have faith in Him and in His Merits and the way is yours.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Keeping the commandments is not a curse; it's one of the benefits of grace. The law itself is the curse.

"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us" (Gal 3:13)

Since the ten commandment law (the moral law) is considered to be the curse, then why would the curse be introduced into the kingdom of heaven?

"Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.

Matthew 6:10 NKJV"

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city."Rev 22:14 NKJV

God blesses!

[Robert]

Since the ten commandment law (the moral law) is considered to be the curse, then why would the cursed be introduced into the kingdom of heaven?

Christ's righteousness.....Christ answered the law. You were in Him when He obeyed and you were in Him when He died. The law is satisfied with your humanity.....

[Gibs]

People are seeing this statement all wrong. The curse is death for disobedience of the law. He redeems us from that death if we will comply. Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Why criminalize the law instead of the criminal? It is by His Law that the criminal is determined.

Man must cooperate with Christ to be redeemed or saved, read,

"Will man take hold of divine power, and with determination and perseverance resist Satan, as Christ has given him example in His conflict with the foe in the wilderness of temptation? God cannot save man against his will from the power of Satan's artifices. Man must work with his human power, aided by the divine power of Christ, to resist and to conquer at any cost to himself. In short, man must overcome as Christ overcame. And then, through the victory that it is his privilege to gain by the all-powerful name of Jesus, he may become an heir of God and joint heir with Jesus Christ. This could not be the case if Christ alone did all the overcoming. Man must do his part; he must be victor on his own account, through the strength and grace that Christ gives him. Man must be a co-worker with Christ in the labor of overcoming. {AG 254.2}

The victims of evil habit must be aroused to the necessity of making an effort for themselves. Others may put forth the most earnest endeavor to uplift them, the grace of God may be freely offered, Christ may entreat, His angels may minister; but all will be in vain unless they themselves are roused to fight the battle in their own behalf. . . . {AG 254.3}

Those who put their trust in Christ are not to be enslaved by any hereditary or cultivated habit or tendency. Instead of being held in bondage to the lower nature, they are to rule every appetite and passion. God has not left us to battle with evil in our own finite strength. Whatever may be our inherited or cultivated tendencies to wrong, we can overcome through the power that He is ready to impart. {AG 254.4}

He in us and we are well able to do it, we must take hold of it by faith in His merits and indwelling.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

Man must work with his human power, aided by the divine power of Christ, to resist and to conquer at any cost to himself

So...every thing we do is NOT 'as filthy rags'??

[Woody]

ALL Good comes from God CoA. But no matter how much good from God that we allow in our lives - it will NEVER be ANYthing but filthy rags towards our salvation.

Only the works of Jesus himself when HE was on this earth - will amount to anything towards our salvation.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

no matter how much good from God that we allow in our lives - it will NEVER be ANYthing but filthy rags towards our salvation.

Biblical or SoP evidence that says that the righteousness of Jesus Christ is filthy rags, please.

"...to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."Romans 3:26 NKJV

"For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ."Romans 5:17 NKJV underlined mine LHC

God blesses!

[JoeMo]

Gibs,

You ask the question, "Why criminalize the law instead of the criminal? It is by His Law that the criminal is determined." If that is true, I guess a good follow-up question is "Why then, is the criminal not punished?" In the world, if you do the crime, you do the time. Not so in the spiritual world. From the beginning of the sacrificial system, the sinner has been offered a "Get Out of Hell Free" card. When a Hebrew brought a lamb as a sin offering in the OT, who was inspected to be without blemish - the sinner or the lamb? The lamb! And the lamb died for the sinner's violation of the law.

When the Lamb of God presented Himself as a sacrifice for our sins, who did God inspect, the sinner or the Lamb? The Lamb! The Lamb of God died (once and for all, according to Hebrews) for all sin - past, present, and future! Praise God! The Lamb continues to offer His sinless life and His blood on our behalf, so that we may be reconciled to God.

Yes, the law is a curse - God's word says so. Praise God that He has sent us a Lamb who became sin for us; so that we are no longer under the curse! Thank you, Jesus!

[Gibs]

Sinners covered by the Blood of the Lamb and His robe will not suffer the penalty of the law, it will be laid on the scapegoat, Satan.

But the ones not covered by the blood of the Lamb will suffer the full penalty af the law. God does this at the end of the age of sin and rebellion.

When the sinner dies and is not covered and goes to sleep of this life it is just as he slept overnite and awakes to find himself in the second resurrection. Those sinners not covered when Jesus comes will be consumed in a split second and in that time I think the sinner realizes his fate and will be raised in the second resurrection to meet his fate. To never be no more.

Now, the law is Holy Just and good. So the law in actuality is not the curse, the curse of the law is it's penalty for breaking it, death. If the law is a curse then a curse will be taken into heaven and is in heaven now in the Heavenly Sanctuary.

The Law of Love is not and cannot be the curse, the curse is the breaking of it to him that broke it, death. But He was made that death for all who will come and comply to the way He has made. The way is through that strait gate and up that narrow way He says few would find and walk. And you know His yoke is easy and light and all should find it and go with Him.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Amen Gibs,

For me, the strait and narrow way is to keep my eyes on Jesus (and no other - including myself) for the mercy of His grace (unmerited favor) and for the power to overcome. It is only by keeping my eyes on Him and His righteousness that I will recieve the gift of eternal life.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

according to Hebrews) for all sin - past, present, and future!

That of course, would be as long as we remain under the cleansing flow of the blood of Christ. However, intentionally continueing in sin, removes the sacrificial remedy for sin, and sets us on a path way to perdition.

"For it is impossible [to restore and bring again to repentance] those who have been once for all enlightened, who have consciously tasted the heavenly gift and have become sharers of the Holy Spirit,

And have felt how good the Word of God is and the mighty powers of the age and world to come,

If they then deviate from the faith and turn away from their allegiance—[it is impossible] to bring them back to repentance, for (because, while, as long as) they nail upon the cross the Son of God afresh [as far as they are concerned] and are holding [Him] up to contempt and shame and public disgrace.

For the soil which has drunk the rain that repeatedly falls upon it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose benefit it is cultivated partakes of a blessing from God.

But if [that same soil] persistently bears thorns and thistles, it is considered worthless and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned"Hebrews 6:4-8 AMP

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

[LifeHiscost]

“The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.’ (Gal. 3:24) In this Scripture the Holy Spirit through the apostle is speaking especially of the moral law."

"Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. "Galatians 3:24 NKJV

And I still find it to be a good tutor when I need a refresher course.

God blesses!

[JoeMo]

LHC,

IMO, the verses you are quoting (as well as the corresponding versesin Heb. 10) Have nothing to do with continuing to sin (although I agree that we should progressively overcome sin through grace). Interpreting these verses in the fashion you propose has historically been a "scare" tactic used by conservative denominations; and taken out of context with the theme of Hebrews.

The book of Hebrews, taken in context, is about Christ being the the one and only sacrifice for sins. After generations of making sin offerings, those Jews who had become Christians were under extreme pressure to continue in the OT sacrificial system for remission of their sins by the "Judaizers" (just like the Galatians were under pressure to be circumsized). When the writer of Hebrews says what he says in Heb.6:4-8 and Heb. 10:26-31, he is warning the Hebrews against thinking that Christ's blood is not sufficient. He is saying that, if the Hebrews return to the OT sacrificial system, they are in essence saying that Christs blood is not good enough; and they are trampling the Son of God underfoot; and crucifying Him afresh.

Just my opinion; but I was so blessed when God revealed this to me. The verses you quoted used to be the scariest verses in the NT to me; now I am blessed by them. Praise Jesus for His all-encompassing sacrifice!

Blessings,

JoeMo

[Woody]

LHC,

IMO, the verses you are quoting (as well as the corresponding versesin Heb. 10) Have nothing to do with continuing to sin (although I agree that we should progressively overcome sin through grace). Interpreting these verses in the fashion you propose has historically been a "scare" tactic used by conservative denominations; and taken out of context with the theme of Hebrews.

The book of Hebrews, taken in context, is about Christ being the the one and only sacrifice for sins. After generations of making sin offerings, those Jews who had become Christians were under extreme pressure to continue in the OT sacrificial system for remission of their sins by the "Judaizers" (just like the Galatians were under pressure to be circumsized). When the writer of Hebrews says what he says in Heb.6:4-8 and Heb. 10:26-31, he is warning the Hebrews against thinking that Christ's blood is not sufficient. He is saying that, if the Hebrews return to the OT sacrificial system, they are in essence saying that Christs blood is not good enough; and they are trampling the Son of God underfoot; and crucifying Him afresh.

Just my opinion; but I was so blessed when God revealed this to me. The verses you quoted used to be the scariest verses in the NT to me; now I am blessed by them. Praise Jesus for His all-encompassing sacrifice!

Blessings,

JoeMo

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

#567532 - Yesterday at 22:43 Re: Are We Redeemed?

God blesses!

[Robert]

And I still find it to be a good tutor when I need a refresher course.

Tutor = "under a pedagogue"

One who instructs in a pedantic or dogmatic manner.

The previous context explains:

Gal 3:10 All who rely on the works of the law (what the law demand in a dogmatic manner) are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

Gal 3:22 "the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin"

What tells you are a slave to sin (your love of self)? The law!

25 Now that the faith (Christ) has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

In other words the law can no dogmatically come to you and say "obey and live" "disobey and die"!

So if you find condemnation something fun for you, you go right ahead and get a refresher course.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

He is saying that, if the Hebrews return to the OT sacrificial system, they are in essence saying that Christs blood is not good enough; and they are trampling the Son of God underfoot; and crucifying Him afresh.

Here are some pertinent facts that when ignored, are at the expense of the peace that Jesus gives that passes all understanding. The question remains, can I be redeemed in my sin, or am I redeemed from my sin?

The old testament sacrificial system is the law that was done away with at the cross, a cross difficult to bear. Those ceremonial laws pointed forward to the sacrifice of Jesus when He came to offer up, the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. Since Jesus was a fulfillment of those symbolic ceremonies, there was no longer any reason to continue with them as revealing the will and character of God.

The coming of Christ and subsequent sacrifice of Jesus revealed the Father's love for His children and there was no longer a need for ceremonies that were given for the same reason but had been subverted into rituals the were looked upon as duties to do instead of signposts to reveal.

It was not the law that failed its' responsibility but the people who used it as a method to keep themselves in control over others, not unlike the world we live in today.

How evident it appears that antinomianism is opposed to the Scriptures and to all just reasoning. And how easy to perceive that a disparagement of the ten commandments leads to laxity of the morality enforced by those commandments. When the Lord gave that law, he said they would be a holy people if they obeyed it. David said that it was perfect, and that he greatly loved it. Solomon said that to keep God’s commandments is the whole duty of man. The Saviour said his Father’s law was in his heart, and that worship is vain where the commandments of God are made void. Paul said the doers of the law shall be justified; that the righteousness or precept of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit; that the law is spiritual, holy, just, and good; and that it is not made void through faith. And we confidently appeal to all if they think it possible that vital piety and earnest zeal for the honor and the truth of God can exist where that law is reproached and disregarded, which is so highly honored and so strongly enforced in all God’s word. David prayed that his eyes might be opened to behold wondrous things out of the law of God. Too many now shut their eyes against all its wonders and glory, and their hearts against its holy claims. Paul said the law was his delight; but these delight to revile the law and cast reproach upon it.

On which side would you, dear reader, wish to be found in that day when “God shall bring every work into Judgment”? when every man shall be rewarded according to his works? when the angel shall announce, “Here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus”? If we are to be judged by the law, how important that we come into harmony with it before that day of terror comes! As we stand related to it in probation, so shall we be related to it in the Judgment. Now we can prepare ourselves for his service, and turn away from sin to obedience; then mercy will be denied to all the unreconciled.

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

So if you find condemnation something fun for you, you go right ahead and get a refresher course.

Thanks for your permission, Robert. My peace comes from the Word, including those you quoted. When understood correctly, none need to be hidden to find that peace which passes all understanding.

He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you but to do justly, and to love kindness and mercy, and to humble yourself and walk humbly with your God?Micah 6:8 AMP

"

Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. Then you will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus.

And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise. Keep putting into practice all you learned and received from me—everything you heard from me and saw me doing. Then the God of peace will be with you. "Philippians 4:6-9 NLT Bold Underlined mine LHC

God blesses!

[JoeMo]

I don't understand how your post responds to the part of my post that you quoted. I might be missing something. Furthermore, I never talked about being redeemed in my sin; I thoroughly believe that through Jesus' grace I am saved from my sin. All I was saying is that your verses from Hebrews have nothing to do with keeping anyone out of heaven unless we don't accept Christ as the all-atoning sacrifice for our sins. To me, thinking that our works have anything to do with salvation implies that Christ's sacrifice is not enough - that we have to somehow add to it to be saved. Isn't that kind of prideful? Just a question- maybe I'm relying too much on Jesus' grace (unmerited favor)?

Blessings,

JoeMo

[Woody]

Quote:

maybe I'm relying too much on Jesus' grace (unmerited favor)?

Not possible friend. Not possible.

[Gibs]

We are Woody if we think that there is no part we are to take. There is something Christ can not do for any of us. Our will is against His Will if it isn't given to do His Will and His only.

"Will man take hold of this divine power which has been placed within his reach, and with determination and perseverance resist Satan, as Christ has given example in his conflict with the foe in the wilderness of temptation? God cannot save man against his will from the power of Satan's artifices. Man must work with his human power, aided by the divine power of Christ, to resist and to conquer at any cost to himself. In short, man must overcome as Christ overcame. Christ was a perfect overcomer; and we must be perfect, wanting nothing, without spot or blemish." {BEcho, January 1, 1893 par. 3}

"Christ came to teach us how to live. He has invited us to learn of Him to be meek and lowly of heart, that we may find rest unto our souls. We have no excuse for not imitating his life and working his works. Those who profess his name, and do not practice his precepts, are weighed in the balances of heaven, and found wanting. But those who reflect his image will have a place in the mansions which He has gone to prepare." {BEcho, January 1, 1893 par. 5}

The merits of Christ are to bring to us His Power in us to be overcomers as He must have us to be to be a safe subject to take into His Kingdom.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Gibs,

You and EGW ask: "Will man take hold of this divine power which has been placed within his reach, and with determination and perseverance resist Satan, as Christ has given example in his conflict with the foe in the wilderness of temptation?" My answer is a resounding YES!! I may lose an occasional battle, bu by God's grace, I will not lose the war! We only lose the war when we give up.

By God's grace, I will not give up!

JoeMo

[cheddar]

Quote:

maybe I'm relying too much on Jesus' grace (unmerited favor)?

Not possible friend. Not possible.

This should be the 29th fundamental belief or at least on a bumper sticker.

[Woody]

Might get read more on a bumper sticker. :(