Christ’s Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary # 24

[Samie]

3 hours ago, jackson said:

Your comments in red, mine in black.

. . .

Under the old covenant type, it was the high priest that confessed all sins of the people upon the head of the sin bearer - the scapegoat.  In the new covenant antitype, Christ  our High Priest confessed all sins of humanity upon Himself - our sin bearer, and carried them to a land NOT inhabited - death.

But the sinner first confessed those sins on the head of the lamb to be slain. Only the sinners confession and repentance made the sacrifice efficacious.

jackson, please don't forget that old covenant types at Yom Kippur were fulfilled in the new covenant Antitype - Christ: He was the High Priest, the offering, the offerer, the scapegoat, the fit man who led the scapegoat. 

God fashioned us into His Body (Eph 2:14-16) and when as High Priest He offered Himself and died (Heb 9:25, 26), we - His Body, with all our sins (1 Pet 2:24) - died with Him - the Head (Col 1:18).  And having died with Him at His death (2 Cor 5:14, 15; Heb 2:9), we were freed from sin - in other words, forgiven, "For he that is dead is freed from sin." Romans 6:7 KJV.

[Samie]

7 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Excellent points, Rachel; and eloquently spoken!  My view of what happened to Adam and Eve is the equivalent of giving the car keys to a baby and telling him/her to "drive".  Adam and Eve were likely babies when the serpent approached them; and had no clue what their consequences would be, any more than a baby would know the complexities of driving a car.

Some points need to be clarified:

1.  Who do you think gave the car keys to the baby and told the baby to drive the car, our heavenly Father or the Devil?

2.  Can you also please explain why would the key-giver give the keys to babies and ask them to drive?

 

7 hours ago, JoeMo said:

You're correct God could have legally and justly abandoned humanity to satan at the fall.  BUT - being the loving Father that He is, He has (and continues to) discipline and disciple us. He who began a good work in us will be faithful to complete it.

Do you think God, as you said, being the loving Father that He is, did NOT do anything that same day to save His babies from drowning in sin into which they had fallen into?  Did God save Adam and Eve that same day they fell into sin?

[Samie]

10 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

IMO:  Believing is OUR PART.  Believing is our RESPONSE to God's pleading spirit.  Christ's suffering death is the EVIDENCE God uses to convince us that He loves us, and we can "return home". God will NOT do the believing FOR US.  This is the crunch point - the linchpin - in the whole process.  This is the opening of the heart to the spirit of Christ.  Christ will NOT pry open the door!!!   He just knocks. 

Wow, I can hardly believe you POSTED the above, Rachel.  I am in complete agreement with you in the paragraph I quoted above, ESPECIALLY the phrase "return home".  And for people to "return home", they must have "strayed away from home" and this tells us people were FIRST at home, then strayed, and then "believe" so they can "return home".  If "home" is the family of God, then people begin life ALREADY members of the family of God.  This had been my position, as could be gleaned from what Christ Himself taught in the parables of the lost sheep, the lost coin and the lost son:

Before the sheep got lost, it was with its shepherd in the sheepfold.  Before the coin was lost, it was with its owner.  Before the son went lost, he was at home with his father.  So with us all sinners.  We all begin life NOT lost. And to be NOT lost is to be in Christ.  Christ's knocking at our heart's door is simply a knock for us to repent, that is, overcome evil with good, and "return home".

Sadly, you readily contradicted your "return home" scenario, by saying:

10 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I am looking at things from a trust perspective. Jesus paid a price (did what it took) so that men (hearing about the price He paid) could believe in God, and trust Him.  THEN they will open their hearts.  And THEN they can be healed.  This still leaves men the FREE-WILL option NOT to believe, NOT to open their hearts, and NOT to be healed/empowered.  

So I do NOT believe the forgiveness comes BEFORE the believing.  Forgiveness IS healing, and we cannot be healed UNTIL we open our heart to the Spirit of Life.

IF, as you contend, BELIEVING must PRECEDE the FORGIVING, then it NECESSARILY follows that PRIOR to BELIEVING man is UNFORGIVEN, and therefore APART from Christ because sin separates man from God (Isa 59:2).

So how can he believe?

If one is NOT in Christ, he cannot bear fruit because only those in Christ can bear fruit (John 15:4, 5).  If he cannot bear fruit, he cannot have faith because faith is fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22).  IF he cannot have faith, he cannot believe because believing is exercising faith which is needed to believe (Heb 11:6).  If he cannot believe, then, as per your teaching, he remains NOT in Christ. 

IF it is true that BELIEVING must PRECEDE the FORGIVING then people are HOPELESS.  I don't think you really meant to say that people are hopeless, do you?

I suggest that you simply hold on to the "return home" scenario.

[JoeMo]

11 hours ago, Samie said:

1.  Who do you think gave the car keys to the baby and told the baby to drive the car, our heavenly Father or the Devil?  The Father

2.  Can you also please explain why would the key-giver give the keys to babies and ask them to drive?  The Father had previously given them the instructions on how and where to drive; but - by their free will, they decided to drive where God told them not to drive.  They were "babies" in the sense that they did not understand the full consequences of straying of the "high road" on which God had ordered them to drive.  They had never experienced the consequences of sin; or what it meant to "know good from evil".  They were not "experienced".  They got in a "wreck" of eternal consequence.

 

11 hours ago, Samie said:

Do you think God, as you said, being the loving Father that He is, did NOT do anything that same day to save His babies from drowning in sin into which they had fallen into?  Did God save Adam and Eve that same day they fell into sin?  Of course God did something! He presented the plan of salvation right there in the Garden!  I never came close to implying that God did nothing!  Both Rachel and I said God COULD HAVE abandoned us; but He DID NOT out of His love and compassion for us.  Yes; His "babies" disobeyed; and were disciplined - just like earthly parents discipline their children when they disobey.  Proper discipline is given out of love; not vengeance.

 

[JoeMo]

12 hours ago, Samie said:

And I think that sits pretty well with Jesus' own pronouncement that apart from Him man can do NOTHING (John 15:4, 5), like believing and repenting.

...or overcoming.

[Samie]

Hi JoeMo,

I asked: "Do you think God, as you said, being the loving Father that He is, did NOT do anything that same day to save His babies from drowning in sin into which they had fallen into?  Did God save Adam and Eve that same day they fell into sin? "

You replied:

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

Of course God did something! He presented the plan of salvation right there in the Garden!  I never came close to implying that God did nothing!  Both Rachel and I said God COULD HAVE abandoned us; but He DID NOT out of His love and compassion for us.  Yes; His "babies" disobeyed; and were disciplined - just like earthly parents discipline their children when they disobey.  Proper discipline is given out of love; not vengeance.

Gleaning from your response, it appears our Father, being the loving Father that He is, disciplined His drowning babies, instead of saving them.  But I respect your position.

For me, as I have REPEATEDLY posted despite perhaps to the annoyance of many, God saved Adam and Eve that same day they fell into sin, an act that cost the Father His only begotten Son, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.  With Adam & Eve in Christ, all their descendants were born in Christ, instead of born in sin, as most preachers teach in the brand of gospel they preach.

Yet, Adam's disobedience was NOT without any consequence.  He lost the immortality he previously had prior to his fall.  And to be entitled as one of the recipients to that immortality he lost and which will be given back when Christ returns (1 Cor 15:52, 53), he must live a penitent life - "Repent or perish", as per Christ's words (Luke 13:3, 5).  The command to repent is the same command issued in the old testament (Ezek 18:30); the same command God NOW wants all men everywhere to do (Acts 17:30); the same command Jesus issued in the gospel that He preached (Mark 1:14, 15); the same gospel that He wanted preached to the world before He comes again (Matt 24:14). 

Repentance is the Greek metanoia - change of mind for that which is good.  Instead of doing evil, one changes his mind and does good. IOW, overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21). Overcomers will Christ NOT blot out from the book of life and will be seated with Him in His throne even as He Himself also overcame and sat down with the Father in His throne (Rev 3:5, 21). 

When Christ returns to reward every man according to what each has done (Matt 16:27; Rev 22:12), all NOT blotted out will be rewarded with life eternal and will be allowed entry into the heavenly portals (Rev 21:27); all blotted out will have their portion in the lake of fire (Rev 20:15).

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, Samie said:

...[He] disciplined His drowning babies, instead of saving them

He did both.  He saved them from immediate death by putting His one and only Son between man and satan.  He disciplined them (as He does us) by letting them suffer the physical consequences of their sin without suffering the ultimate spiritual consequence (the second death).

Why do you keep inferring that I am projecting a mean, vicious God?

[Samie]

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

He did both.  He saved them from immediate death by putting His one and only Son between man and satan.  He disciplined them (as He does us) by letting them suffer the physical consequences of their sin without suffering the ultimate spiritual consequence (the second death).

Why do you keep inferring that I am projecting a mean, vicious God?

No, brother. Sorry, if that is how my previous post came across to you.

And I think "infer" better describes my post (the only one that I could remember in all my posts thus far) rather than "keep inferring"; and "not a very loving God" rather than a "mean, vicious God".  But then again, I respect how you understood my post.

And frankly, it is ONLY NOW, through your post I quoted above, that I understood you also believe God saved Adam & Eve that same day they sinned.  I guess, I can safely say you are the first one in this forum to OPENLY admit and side with my position that God saved Adam that very same day he fell into  sin.

Prior to your previous post, my understanding is you are with Rachel in her belief that UNLESS man first believes, he cannot become part of the body of Christ.

[JoeMo]

2 minutes ago, Samie said:

Prior to your previous post, my understanding is you are with Rachel in her belief that UNLESS man first believes, he cannot become part of the body of Christ.

I still am with Rachel.  Adam and Eve had to believe (i.e., embrace their salvation) to be saved.  They could have told God "where to go" when he kicked them out of the garden; thus sealing their immediate doom.  But they believed God and went on to live (I believe) difficult but fruitful lives.  The had to repent of their sins and believe God to be saved.  I imagine Eve thought one of her subsequent children (Seth?) would be the Savior.  Had Adam and Eve despaired rather than believe God, we wouldn't be here.  Yes - God offered them salvation free and clear; but they had to accept it for salvation to be realizted.

That being said, how could Adam and Eve not believe God?  They had already walked with Him - maybe for years.

[8thdaypriest]

18 hours ago, Samie said:

Wow, I can hardly believe you POSTED the above, Rachel.  I am in complete agreement with you in the paragraph I quoted above, ESPECIALLY the phrase "return home".  And for people to "return home", they must have "strayed away from home" and this tells us people were FIRST at home, then strayed, and then "believe" so they can "return home".  If "home" is the family of God, then people begin life ALREADY members of the family of God.  This had been my position, as could be gleaned from what Christ Himself taught in the parables of the lost sheep, the lost coin and the lost son:

Before the sheep got lost, it was with its shepherd in the sheepfold.  Before the coin was lost, it was with its owner.  Before the son went lost, he was at home with his father.  So with us all sinners.  We all begin life NOT lost. And to be NOT lost is to be in Christ.  Christ's knocking at our heart's door is simply a knock for us to repent, that is, overcome evil with good, and "return home".

Samie,  Only Adam and Eve could literally "return" to where they were before.  That's IF the Garden of Eden was preserved.   The rest of us - their descendants - can "return home" only in the sense that a person can travel to their ancestral "home" - the place where humanity began.  The phrase "return home" also refers more to a lost relationship - with our Creator.  Adam and Eve knew Him face-to-face.  We - their descendants - want to "return" to that place.  Even through we've never "been there" - talking with our Creator face-to-face, we want that.  We "came from there" and want to "return", only in the sense that our original father and mother, had that relationship.  

God is our "Father" and we are "lost children", even if we ARE many generations removed from the first pair who wandered away from "home". 

[8thdaypriest]

3 hours ago, Samie said:

No, brother. Sorry, if that is how my previous post came across to you.

And I think "infer" better describes my post (the only one that I could remember in all my posts thus far) rather than "keep inferring"; and "not a very loving God" rather than a "mean, vicious God".  But then again, I respect how you understood my post.

And frankly, it is ONLY NOW, through your post I quoted above, that I understood you also believe God saved Adam & Eve that same day they sinned.  I guess, I can safely say you are the first one in this forum to OPENLY admit and side with my position that God saved Adam that very same day he fell into  sin.

Prior to your previous post, my understanding is you are with Rachel in her belief that UNLESS man first believes, he cannot become part of the body of Christ.

I do NOT believe that God "saved" Adam and Eve "the very day they fell into sin".  To be "saved" one must be removed from the presence and the power of sin, and restored to face-to-face communion with God.  THAT didn't happen the day that Adam sinned.  A great barrier arose between God and mankind.  That barrier didn't disappear on the same day.  It is still present.  That barrier is why we need a Mediator. 

On that day, God promised to send a Savior.  A PROMISE is not the reality.  Jesus has PROMISED to return, but He has not yet arrived.  What we have now is God's PROMISE of deliverance.  Yes - it is sure and certain, and He has given us the spirit "as a guarantee".  But it is still a PROMISE.  The PROMISE has not yet been fulfilled.

[8thdaypriest]

20 hours ago, jackson said:

the Spirit gives us the gift of repentance; a gift which only the humble heart can accept. At the moment we are truly sorry for sin, we are forgiven.

If you definition of "repentance" = "to sorrow for ones sin" and  "to desire reconciliation with God", then I think we are in agreement. 

NOTE:  This is NOT "sorrow" because one is "caught" or is about to be punished.  That's is a different "sorrow". 

The heart "change" results in forgiveness/atonement/reconciliation. 

Yes - God effects the "change", but the sinner must "open the door".  The person cautiously squeaks open the door - after peering through the peep-hole.  He is not sure exactly what will happen, but he wants to find out.  He has some evidence that a good change may come about.  Maybe he saw a change in someone close to him.  Maybe he saw a miracle take place.  Maybe he saw a convincing video about Bible prophecy, or creationism.  His choice to open the door, is based upon evidence of some kind.  He slowly opens the door - giving Christ  "permission" to enter, and to make changes.  And even after Christ begins the process of change, he can resist, and push Christ out the door.  But IF he allows Christ to stay, then slowly Christ will bring that person - to repentance. 

My belief is that our Creator built into our brain/mind the capacity to "believe" - based upon evidence or experience.  Believing is NOT something that He has to do FOR US.  But repentance IS something that He has to "give us". 

Until we have enough evidence or experience upon which to BASE belief - we cannot believe.  

We must believe to be "saved" - to be given "repentance".  There is no getting around this REQUIREMENT, for any human being regardless of age or circumstance.  

My belief concerning "the rest of the dead" is based upon my understanding that one must BELIEVE in order to be "saved".  If God is just, then He must provide every human being with the opportunity to believe.  That just is NOT POSSIBLE, unless there is going to be a resurrection of those who did not have that opportunity during their lives, during this 6000 years from Adam to the Second Coming.  Whether they be ignorant pagans or small children or people with mental disabilities - they could not BELIEVE, therefore they cannot be raised to eternal life at the Second Coming.  These people must be resurrected at some later time, and allowed to continue their lives if they are going to "believe". 

The other alternative is to leave them all "dead like the beasts" - like the ignorant slave whom Mrs White said God could not take to heaven because he had lived all his life in ignorance.   To me, that would not be "just".  Far from it. 

 

[Samie]

6 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Samie,  Only Adam and Eve could literally "return" to where they were before.  That's IF the Garden of Eden was preserved.   The rest of us - their descendants - can "return home" only in the sense that a person can travel to their ancestral "home" - the place where humanity began.  The phrase "return home" also refers more to a lost relationship - with our Creator.  Adam and Eve knew Him face-to-face.  We - their descendants - want to "return" to that place.  Even through we've never "been there" - talking with our Creator face-to-face, we want that.  We "came from there" and want to "return", only in the sense that our original father and mother, had that relationship.  

God is our "Father" and we are "lost children", even if we ARE many generations removed from the first pair who wandered away from "home". 

Would you care to explain your take on the parables of the lost sheep, the lost coin and the lost son, vis-a-vis my take on it? Thanks.

On 18/04/2017 at 2:43 PM, Samie said:

Wow, I can hardly believe you POSTED the above, Rachel.  I am in complete agreement with you in the paragraph I quoted above, ESPECIALLY the phrase "return home".  And for people to "return home", they must have "strayed away from home" and this tells us people were FIRST at home, then strayed, and then "believe" so they can "return home".  If "home" is the family of God, then people begin life ALREADY members of the family of God.  This had been my position, as could be gleaned from what Christ Himself taught in the parables of the lost sheep, the lost coin and the lost son:

Before the sheep got lost, it was with its shepherd in the sheepfold.  Before the coin was lost, it was with its owner.  Before the son went lost, he was at home with his father.  So with us all sinners.  We all begin life NOT lost. And to be NOT lost is to be in Christ.  Christ's knocking at our heart's door is simply a knock for us to repent, that is, overcome evil with good, and "return home".

 

[Samie]

6 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I do NOT believe that God "saved" Adam and Eve "the very day they fell into sin".  To be "saved" one must be removed from the presence and the power of sin, and restored to face-to-face communion with God.  THAT didn't happen the day that Adam sinned.  A great barrier arose between God and mankind.  That barrier didn't disappear on the same day.  It is still present.  That barrier is why we need a Mediator. 

On that day, God promised to send a Savior.  A PROMISE is not the reality.  Jesus has PROMISED to return, but He has not yet arrived.  What we have now is God's PROMISE of deliverance.  Yes - it is sure and certain, and He has given us the spirit "as a guarantee".  But it is still a PROMISE.  The PROMISE has not yet been fulfilled.

Would you comment as to why Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?  Thanks.

[Samie]

What is Christ's ministry in the heavenly sanctuary?

     KJV Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

The verse above tells us the main reason for our Lord's resurrection: He was resurrected for our justification.  Justification is the Greek dikai,wsij dikaiosis, from Strong's data <1347>:

Meaning:  1) the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him 2) abjuring to be righteous, justification
Origin:  from 1344; TDNT - 2:223,168; n f
Usage:  AV - justification 2; 2

When Christ died, all sins were forgiven (Col 2:13).  When we commit sin now, the sin committed, having been forgiven when Christ died, is NOT imputed against us (2 Cor 5:18, 19). This is Christ's act of justifying us.  Hence, we remain part of His Body UNTIL He blots ones name from the book of life for not overcoming evil with good.  Good news is it is only when a person dies that judgment is rendered (Heb 9:27) whether he is an overcomer or not. There's hope while alive.

 

 

[JoeMo]

13 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I do NOT believe that God "saved" Adam and Eve "the very day they fell into sin".  To be "saved" one must be removed from the presence and the power of sin, and restored to face-to-face communion with God.

I believe that God "saved" Adam and Eve from imminent death when He stepped between the serpent and humanity.  They were saved in the sense that they were given a "second chance" (I speak metaphorically).  Like us, they probably needed 3rd, 4th, 5th, ad nauseum chances.  God did not "have" to save Adam and Eve (i.e., let them live) - He could have "uncreated" them or allowed satan to destroy them and started over.  But He didn't - he saved them.  God chooses to save us because He has chosen to be a good and gracious God - a God of love and life.  Had Adam and Eve faced the Islamic Allah - a god of vengeance and retribution - a god of death - they probably would have died a slow and painful death right there at the foot of the tree in Eden.

As long as we have breath, God holds out the opportunity to be saved - or lost.  We can be saved from our falls as long as we take hold of the hand that always offers to pick us back up.  When we consciously refuse to take that hand and choose to stay face-down in the gutter, we are in danger of being lost.  Being saved or lost is our choice - one of the benefits (or dangers) of a free will. 

[LifeHiscost]

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

 

As long as we have breath, God holds out the opportunity to be saved - or lost.  We can be saved from our falls as long as we take hold of the hand that always offers to pick us back up.  When we consciously refuse to take that hand and choose to stay face-down in the gutter, we are in danger of being lost.  Being saved or lost is our choice - one of the benefits (or dangers) of a free will. 

15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord....Joshua 24

Why "this day"?  Because on the day Jesus reveals Himself in the clouds of glory it will be too late to change our mind. He will be bringing with Him at that time, the reward for our choices up to that time.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be....Revelation 22

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh....Matthew 25

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[8thdaypriest]

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

I believe that God "saved" Adam and Eve from imminent death when He stepped between the serpent and humanity.  They were saved in the sense that they were given a "second chance" (I speak metaphorically).  Like us, they probably needed 3rd, 4th, 5th, ad nauseum chances.  God did not "have" to save Adam and Eve (i.e., let them live) - He could have "uncreated" them or allowed satan to destroy them and started over.  But He didn't - he saved them.  God chooses to save us because He has chosen to be a good and gracious God - a God of love and life.  Had Adam and Eve faced the Islamic Allah - a god of vengeance and retribution - a god of death - they probably would have died a slow and painful death right there at the foot of the tree in Eden.

As long as we have breath, God holds out the opportunity to be saved - or lost.  We can be saved from our falls as long as we take hold of the hand that always offers to pick us back up.  When we consciously refuse to take that hand and choose to stay face-down in the gutter, we are in danger of being lost.  Being saved or lost is our choice - one of the benefits (or dangers) of a free will. 

We have so many words in English, which have more than one meaning.   "saved" is one of those words.   The word should probably have a qualifier attached - like "eternally saved", when talking about eternal life - vs - death without the possibility of resurrection.   We can be "saved" from many smaller things - eg - "saved from falling", as in "saved from making a mistake".   

The LORD protected Adam and Eve from complete manipulation and possession by the Serpent.  The "dominion" of the Serpent was not complete - over those individuals who "cried out to the LORD". 

[8thdaypriest]

5 hours ago, Samie said:

What is Christ's ministry in the heavenly sanctuary?

     KJV Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

The verse above tells us the main reason for our Lord's resurrection: He was resurrected for our justification.  Justification is the Greek dikai,wsij dikaiosis, from Strong's data <1347>:

Meaning:  1) the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him 2) abjuring to be righteous, justification
Origin:  from 1344; TDNT - 2:223,168; n f
Usage:  AV - justification 2; 2

When Christ died, all sins were forgiven (Col 2:13).  When we commit sin now, the sin committed, having been forgiven when Christ died, is NOT imputed against us (2 Cor 5:18, 19). This is Christ's act of justifying us.  Hence, we remain part of His Body UNTIL He blots ones name from the book of life for not overcoming evil with good.  Good news is it is only when a person dies that judgment is rendered (Heb 9:27) whether he is an overcomer or not. There's hope while alive.

 

 

No!!! 

Acts 13:38 "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 "and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses." (NKJ)

Everyone WHO BELIEVES is justified - NOT - everyone is justified.  There's a difference.  BELIEVING is the key. 

Mankind was given the OPPORTUNITY to be forgiven.  The forgiveness/justification was accessed by BELIEVING in Jesus. 

 

[8thdaypriest]

Samie's favorite verse: 

2 Corinthians 5:14 "For the love of Christ urges us on, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died. 15 And he died for all, so that those who live might live no longer for themselves, but for him who died and was raised for them." (NRS)

I agree that Christ "died for all" - for every human being who has ever/ or will ever live.

"Therefore all have died".  The ENTIRE human race DIED.  Which means they were DEAD.   "Dead in trespasses and sins."   Guilty of the death of Christ. 

The question is:  Were ALL resurrected to eternal life?  Answer: No! 

Only the Spirit gives life. 

Only those people who open the door to the Spirit can receive LIFE.  Only they can "live again". 

The verse says "so that those who live".   "Those who live" are people who have believed, and have opened the door to Christ. 

Unless we do that - "open the door" - we stay DEAD.

[Samie]

38 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

No!!! 

Acts 13:38 "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 "and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses." (NKJ)

Everyone WHO BELIEVES is justified - NOT - everyone is justified.  There's a difference.  BELIEVING is the key. 

Mankind was given the OPPORTUNITY to be forgiven.  The forgiveness/justification was accessed by BELIEVING in Jesus.

Forgiveness is NOT Justification.  Forgiveness is a done deal.  Justification is on-going, otherwise Jesus would have not been raised for our justification.

     Romans 5:18   Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Rom 5:18 do not contradict Acts 13:38; it simply included everyone, just like in this verse:

     1 Timothy 4:10   For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Hence, God through Christ is the Justifier of all men, specially of those who believe.

[Samie]

49 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Samie's favorite verse: 

2 Corinthians 5:14 "For the love of Christ urges us on, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died. 15 And he died for all, so that those who live might live no longer for themselves, but for him who died and was raised for them." (NRS)

I agree that Christ "died for all" - for every human being who has ever/ or will ever live.

"Therefore all have died".  The ENTIRE human race DIED.  Which means they were DEAD.   "Dead in trespasses and sins."   Guilty of the death of Christ. 

The question is:  Were ALL resurrected to eternal life?  Answer: No!

That's sad.  You seem to agree to only half the verse.

    NAS Colossians 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions.

Made alive TOGETHER with Him!!!  That's the linchpin.

Before you and I believed, we were Made alive TOGETHER with Him when He resurrected. How? Because God fashioned humanity into the Body of His Son such that when He - the Head - died, we His Body - died.  And when the Head resurrected, the Body was also resurrected TOGETHER with Him, hence Made alive TOGETHER with Him, as Scriptures say.

But if one is only made alive when he believes, then that's NOT made alive together with Him but made alive one by one.

1 hour ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Only the Spirit gives life. 

Only those people who open the door to the Spirit can receive LIFE.  Only they can "live again". 

The verse says "so that those who live".   "Those who live" are people who have believed, and have opened the door to Christ. 

Unless we do that - "open the door" - we stay DEAD.

Funny: The DEAD can open the door. 

For me, as the physically DEAD cannot physically open the door of his house, in like manner the spiritually DEAD cannot spiritually open the door of his heart.

[Samie]

And Rachel has yet to address this post and this post, that is, if she is willing to clarify her stand on the issue specified in those posts.

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, Samie said:

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The gift was given to all men, but NOT all men accept it.  They remain under the Law.

1 hour ago, Samie said:

therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Especially "those that believe" because those who don't believe (i.e., refuse to accept the gift being offered to all men - those who reject salvation by grace) don't get it.  They remain under the Law.

" You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." (Gal. 5:4)

[Samie]

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

The gift was given to all men, but NOT all men accept it.  They remain under the Law.

ACCEPTING is work. Justification is grace.

Romans 11:6   And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 3:24  Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Justified FREELY by grace.  To be justified is to be changed from a state of being UNJUST to a state of being JUST in the sight of God Who does the justifying.  A person justified by God remains justified whether he knows about it or not, whether he accepts it or not.  What the IMMORTAL has done can NEVER by any mortal be UNDONE.