Christ’s Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary # 24

[8thdaypriest]

21 hours ago, Samie said:

I know you have repeatedly said you do not believe without Him.  That explains why I also repeatedly told you that only those ALREADY in Him can believe because He Himself said "APART from Me you can do NOTHING."  Your "believing" proves you are ALREADY in Him because you have done SOMETHING: believe.

Samie,

You believe we can only "come" to Christ IF we are already "in Christ".  Right?  Already "saved". 

"In Christ" = "saved" = "in the Book of Life" = part of "His body" = all sins forgiven.    Right? 

Jesus said, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him;  (Joh 6:44 NKJ) 

That would mean - according to your belief - that the Father "draws" them because they are already "in Christ". 

So:  Me "in Christ" - is NOT THE SAME thing - as "Christ in me". 

Jesus died so that ALL of humanity could be "in Him" and that allows the Father to draw them to believe in Christ. 

Then persons either believe/accept Christ as Lord (overcome evil) OR resist the drawing/resist Christ (embrace the evil). 

Right so far?

 

 

[Samie]

3 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Samie,

You believe we can only "come" to Christ IF we are already "in Christ".  Right?  Already "saved". 

I believe we are born ALREADY in Christ.  And to be in Christ is to be NOT lost, hence, saved.

[8thdaypriest]

38 minutes ago, Samie said:

He forgave that one, too. 

BUT only overcomers will NOT be blotted out from the book of life.  Forgiving of sins and blotting out of names are two different things.

 

I could be "cut off"/"blotted out" for sins which have already been forgiven/pardoned???

Samie, that just doesn't make sense. 

God would be saying, "I forgiven you (for not overcoming evil) , but I'm executing you anyway." 

[Samie]

6 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

"In Christ" = "saved" = "in the Book of Life" = part of "His body" = all sins forgiven.    Right? 

Right.

[Samie]

1 minute ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I could be "cut off"/"blotted out" for sins which have already been forgiven/pardoned???

Again, it's one thing to be forgiven. Another thing to be blotted out from the book of life.

[8thdaypriest]

1 minute ago, Samie said:

I believe we are born ALREADY in Christ.  And to be in Christ is to be NOT lost, hence, saved.

 

8 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

You believe we can only "come" to Christ IF we are already "in Christ".  Right?  Already "saved". 

"In Christ" = "saved" = "in the Book of Life" = part of "His body" = all sins forgiven.    Right? 

Samie, 

You did not answer the question, highlighted in RED.

[Samie]

3 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Samie, that just doesn't make sense.

It makes sense, to me.

[Samie]

Just now, 8thdaypriest said:

Samie, 

You did not answer the question, highlighted in RED.

Because it does not make sense, to me.

[Samie]

5 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

God would be saying, "I forgiven you (for not overcoming evil) , but I'm executing you anyway." 

Those are your words.  I doubt if God will be saying them.

[8thdaypriest]

14 hours ago, jackson said:

 

Jesus said to Nicodemus,  "Do not marvel that I said to you,`You must be born again.'" (Joh 3:7 NKJ)    Physical birth is simply separation from our mother's womb. 

Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (Joh 3:3 NKJ)

 

Samie,  you are saying that ALL humanity were already "born again" on the day that Adam sinned.   Then WHY would Jesus tell Nicodemus that he needed to "be born again"??

IF everyone is already "born again" when they are physically born, then it's not really a "second birth".  And everyone can "see the kingdom of God".  But that contradicts Jesus statement that there ARE folks who "cannot see the kingdom", and will not "see the kingdom".   

[Samie]

1 minute ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Samie,  you are saying that ALL humanity were already "born again" on the day that Adam sinned.  

Scriptures say that we were born again through the resurrection of Jesus:

NAS 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

5 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Then WHY would Jesus tell Nicodemus that he needed to "be born again"??

To me, that's simply Jesus' way of telling Nicodemus, He had to be resurrected for Nicodemus to be born again.

[8thdaypriest]

33 minutes ago, Samie said:

Again, it's one thing to be forgiven. Another thing to be blotted out from the book of life.

IF the governor issues a "pardon" - the one on death row, does NOT get executed.  

[8thdaypriest]

2 minutes ago, Samie said:

Scriptures say that we were born again through the resurrection of Jesus:

NAS 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

To me, that's simply Jesus' way of telling Nicodemus, He had to be resurrected for Nicodemus to be born again.

Oh - so we were NOT "born again" on the very day that Adam sinned.   We were not "born again" until Jesus was resurrected. 

[Samie]

Just now, 8thdaypriest said:

Oh - so we were NOT "born again" on the very day that Adam sinned.   We were not "born again" until Jesus was resurrected. 

As per my understanding of Scriptures, I'd say Yes.

[Samie]

4 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

IF the governor issues a "pardon" - the one on death row, does NOT get executed.  

That's how things are on earth. 

Perhaps it's the other way around in heaven.  Written first in the registry of heaven. Then blotted out if one is judged as a non-overcomer.

[8thdaypriest]

I would like to review the passages which speak of "the body of Christ".

Colossians 1:18 “He is the head of the body, the church” (NRS).

Colossians 1:24 “Christ's afflictions for the sake of His body, that is, the church.”

Ephesians 5:23 “For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior” (NIV).

Ephesians 5:30 & 32 “For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. . . .      This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church” (NKJ).

        Paul says Christ “gave himself up for her” - meaning His bride - His church.  When Paul says “we are members of His body” he is addressing “the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus.”  Paul is NOT addressing the general public!

        No!  I do not believe that all of mankind died as “the body of Christ” on that cross. 

And no! I do not believe that “the church” is (or was) all of mankind. 

[8thdaypriest]

1 minute ago, Samie said:

That's how things are on earth. 

Perhaps it's the other way around in heaven.  Written first in the registry of heaven. Then blotted out if one is judged as a non-overcomer.

But not overcoming is a sin (according to you) - which was already pardoned/forgiven on the day that Adam sinned. 

Samie,  you seem to want it both ways.  We were forgiven, but can still be UN-forgiven.  We were "saved", but can still be UN-saved. 

[Samie]

1 minute ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I would like to review the passages which speak of "the body of Christ".

Colossians 1:18 “He is the head of the body, the church” (NRS).

Colossians 1:24 “Christ's afflictions for the sake of His body, that is, the church.”

Ephesians 5:23 “For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior” (NIV).

Ephesians 5:30 & 32 “For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. . . .      This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church” (NKJ).

        Paul says Christ “gave himself up for her” - meaning His bride - His church.  When Paul says “we are members of His body” he is addressing “the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus.”  Paul is NOT addressing the general public!

        No!  I do not believe that all of mankind died as “the body of Christ” on that cross. 

And no! I do not believe that “the church” is (or was) all of mankind. 

I respect your belief.

For me, all for whom Christ died compose the Body of Christ UNTIL names are blotted out from the book of life.  And Scriptures say He died for all.

 

[8thdaypriest]

10 minutes ago, Samie said:

Oh - so we were NOT "born again" on the very day that Adam sinned.   We were not "born again" until Jesus was resurrected. 

 

10 minutes ago, Samie said:

As per my understanding of Scriptures, I'd say Yes.

That would mean the folks who lived BEFORE Jesus was resurrected,   were "in Christ" - but were NOT "born again".  Right?

So - "born again" and "in Christ" are two different things - according to your understanding.

[Samie]

Just now, 8thdaypriest said:

But not overcoming is a sin (according to you) - which was already pardoned/forgiven on the day that Adam sinned. 

Samie,  you seem to want it both ways.  We were forgiven, but can still be UN-forgiven.  We were "saved", but can still be UN-saved.

That's how you understand my position.  But it's not my position.

Again, it's one thing to be forgiven; another thing to be blotted out from the book of life.  Forgiveness is PAST in one's life. Blotting out is FUTURE to one's life.

And again,  there are 3 tenses of salvation: past, present, future.

[Samie]

1 minute ago, 8thdaypriest said:

 

That would mean the folks who lived BEFORE Jesus was resurrected,   were "in Christ" - but were NOT "born again".  Right?

But they were born again when Jesus resurrected.  And Jesus HAD BEEN resurrected, so all had been born again.

[8thdaypriest]

Gotta go for now. 

[Samie]

2 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Gotta go for now. 

It's a pleasure discussing with you, Rachel.

[JoeMo]

On 4/23/2017 at 6:51 AM, Samie said:

Since APART from Christ you can do NOTHING - you can't even believe

I agree with you, Samie.  I would also submit that through Christ everything is possible.  But even with Christ, though you CAN do anything, it doesn't mean you are COMPELLED to do so.  With Christ, indeed you CAN (i.e., you have the ability to) believe; but one is not FORCED to believe - we have a free will to either accept or reject what Christ offers.  If we don't CHOOSE to accept salvation by grace through faith, Christ isn't going to shove it down our throat.  If I freely offer you $1 billion, I'm not forcing you to accept it.  It's your choice.

[JoeMo]

22 hours ago, Samie said:

NAS 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

C'mon Samie,

Just because Peter used the same 2 words ("born again") as Jesus used in John, doesnt mean they are referring to the same subject.  Peter talks about being born to a living hope; while Jesus speaks of being born to eternal life.  Living hope is NOT the same thing as "eternal life.  You're really stretching the scripture here, brother.