Was Jesus selfish?

July 23, 2006

If Adam and Eve would not have sin.

And they were fruitful and multiplied.

Little Abel and Cain would be borned perfect with no propencity to sin in this perfect paradise Earth.

The babies wouldnt cry? Maybe just try to catch their mothers eye? and whistle?

July 23, 2006

maybe their bodies wouldnt be uncomfortable. No gas no burping and maybe no baby ka ka. The food would be perfect....

and the food would be perfect...

their body uses all the food in the digestion process and no waste material.

THeir blood, skin,bone,organ tissue cells wouldnt need to be replaced just more vigar added?

I dont know

Just thinkin

no gas or nothin

maybe before sin no one was uncomfortable or unsatisfied.

July 23, 2006

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Ed Dickerson said: Luke 2:52 [:"red"]And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men. [/]

To all: This refers to Christ as man, not God. As God He is omniscient, but as man He was limited by our humanity.

You see Jesus had to be taught that He was to be the Savior of the world. It was revealed to Him by the Father. In fact as the Son of Man he was totally dependent upon the Father for everything.

John 5:30 "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."

Rob

July 24, 2006

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Ed Dickerson said:

Pam. An often overlooked verse makes it clear that Jesus grew and developed like any normal child.

[:"red"] "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;" [/]

Hebrews 5:8 KJV

July 24, 2006

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Gregory Matthews said:

treat Pam's questions respectfully.

It's been said that there are no dumb questions. Perhaps there are many people who might be dumb as a result of not asking questions.

Its also been said the only dumb questions are the ones that aren't asked.

[:"red"] "And were beyond measure astonished, saying, He hath done all things well: he maketh both the deaf to hear, and the dumb to speak." [/] Mark 7:37 KJV

[:"red"] " Your will be done,

On earth as it is in heaven. " [/] Matt 6:10 KJV

July 24, 2006

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Gregory Matthews said:

I am not required to understand all of its aspects in order to be saved.

Sin is so comprehensive that I am likely committing sin now.

if the HS has not convicted me on that point, God is not charging me with that sin.

Much of the fear of admitting that we have sinned is the misconception that it is our conduct that determines whether we are saved or not, which belies the biblical statement that we are saved by grace through faith. While it is true that good conduct is a result of the abiding Presence in our lives, it is conduct directly emanating from the power of the Holy Spirit, not an effort of righteousness of our own.

[:"red"] "And we are as unclean -- all of us , And as a garment passing away, all our righteous acts; And we fade as a leaf -- all of us. And our iniquities as wind do take us away." [/] Isaiah 64:6 YLT Bold mine LHC

[:"red"] "...mercy triumphs over judgment." [/]

James 2:13 NASB

[:"red"] "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death." [/] Rev 12:11 KJV

Blessings!!

July 24, 2006

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Robert said:

How can Jesus legally allow infants into heaven seeing that they have not been born again?

Rob

The same way He could allow the thief on the cross into the kingdom without his experiencing baptism.

[:"red"] "Paul said, " John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." [/] Acts 19:4 NASB

[:"red"] "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." [/] Acts 2:38 KJV

[:"red"] "....mercy triumphs over judgment." [/] James 2:13 NASB

July 24, 2006

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Robert said:

We need to face this fact that all of us (babies too) are sinners in need of Christ's righteousness.

Rob

Babies are in need of Christ's righteousness as they are born with a sinful nature, however according to the Word they are not sinners.

Since a baby has no knowledge of law and cannot, because of limited intelligence, understand law, he/she is not imputed as sinful, hence not a sinner. How old when that changes is as different for the different babies as it is a different age for every person who is "born again".

[:"red"] "

I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” " [/]Romans 7:7 NKJV

[:"red"] "(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law." [/]

Romans 5:13 KJV

[:"red"] "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered..." [/] Hebrews 5:8 KJV

Keep the faith!!

July 24, 2006

And how can you tell whether someone believes or not?

Gerry

July 24, 2006

How can an infant believe when it can't even reason or talk?

July 24, 2006

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LifeHiscost said: Babies are in need of Christ's righteousness as they are born with a sinful nature, however according to the Word they are not sinners.

[:"red"] "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law." [/]

Romans 5:13 KJV

You should have read on!

13 for until the Law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses [where the law was posted]....

The law wasn't posted until Moses, yet "death reigned" between the fall of Adam and the giving of the law by Moses. Why? "The wages of sin is death"!

Also, don't forget Romans 2:11: "there is no partiality with God. 12 For all who have sinned without the Law [without a knowledge of the law] will also perish without the Law....."

Rob

July 24, 2006

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LifeHiscost said:Babies are in need of Christ's righteousness as they are born with a sinful nature, however according to the Word they are not sinners.

What does the Bible say?

"There is none righteous, not even one"

That must include infants also.

July 25, 2006

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LifeHiscost said: Since a baby has no knowledge of law and cannot, because of limited intelligence, understand law, he/she is not imputed as sinful, hence not a sinner.

The law doesn't care if you haven't any knowledge of it. Besides you know the law and if you are honest you'll admit that you are failing to keep it as Christ kept it.

So then, how is sin not imputed to the sinner (and we are sinners)? Go to the following:

Romans 7:1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that [:"red"]the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives[/]?

Did you get that? The law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he is living! Now Paul turns to the law of marriage to make his point:

2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband.

In Paul's illustration the law of marriage binds the woman, who represents “us”, as long as her husband, who represents the law, is alive. But if he dies, she is released from the law of marriage.

3 So then if, while her husband is living, she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress, though she is joined to another man.

In the above example the wife represents "us". The husband "the law" and the other man, "Jesus Christ". If we are joined to the law while claiming Christ we are committing spiritual adultery. That's because salvation by law and salvation by Christ are mutually exclusive. Now let's go to the next verse where Paul brings all this together:

4 Therefore, my brethren, you [i.e., "the wife"] also were made to die to the Law [the 1st husband] in the body of Christ, that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit for God.

Note "in Christ" we died to the law that we might be joined [married] to the other man, the 2nd man Jesus Christ.

verse 5: While we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.

While living in this sinful life and being married to the law, the fruits we bore were unto death. Why? Because they were unacceptable to the holy demands of the law!

verse 6 But now we have been released from the Law, [:"red"]having died to that by which we were bound [the law or the 1st husband][/],so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit.

So how are infants released from the law? By dying do what bound them! When did they die? Right, corporately in the humanity of Christ. So infants are not under the law and hence they are not under the curse of the law because as far as the law is concerned the infant died “in Christ”! The law has been satisfied and therefore the infant can enter heaven!

Rob

July 25, 2006

Rob, I feel satisfied that your mind is made up re: to the salvation of little children, as also you have in other places felt confident to voice where others would spend eternity. I prefer to leave where I am going to spend eternity in the hands of Him Who gives life, as I believe His wisdom and judgement is sufficient to place all who live in the aeons of eternity where they will be content and happy to submit their will to His instruction.

[:"red"] "And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." [/] John 10:4 KJV

[:"red"] "These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb." [/] Revelation 14:4 KJV

[:"red"] "...Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." [/] Matthew 6:10 KJV

July 25, 2006

Do you have a full-time job Robert?

Thanks,

gcw

July 25, 2006

Let's apply it to adults. How does/can one tell if a person really believes?

Gerry

July 25, 2006

A request to all.

Please define "selfishness" that would be acceptable to most or all, then we can decide whether Jesus was selfish or not.

Gerry

July 26, 2006

July 26, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said:Please define "selfishness" that would be acceptable to most or all, then we can decide whether Jesus was selfish or not.

No, let us not define "selfishness"....let's let the Bible define selfishness!!!

July 26, 2006

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Robert said:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Gerry Cabalo said:Please define "selfishness" that would be acceptable to most or all, then we can decide whether Jesus was selfish or not.

No, let us not define "selfishness"....let's let the Bible define selfishness!!!

[:"blue"]OK, give us the Bible's definition of selfishness, not your spin on it. [/]

Gerry

July 26, 2006

There's a difference between an honest question in the search for information and a calculated, rhetorical question that is posed to have an effect, usually a negative one. When someone continuously puts up thread titles like: "was Jesus selfish"?, or some other tired title, like something questioning the value of eternity, I view that as some kind of coy mind game. It's an open forum, and I am expressing my opinion.

DB

July 26, 2006

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D_Bishop said:

There's a difference between an honest question in the search for information and a calculated, rhetorical question that is posed to have an effect, usually a negative one. When someone continuously puts up thread titles like: "was Jesus selfish"?, or some other tired title, like something questioning the value of eternity, I view that as some kind of coy mind game. It's an open forum, and I am expressing my opinion.

DB

[]http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_evil.gif[/]

You, sir, are exactly the kind of Christian who made me leave Christianity in the first place. Giving it another try, are you??? Loading your uppity self-righteous guns, are you? Shooting anyone who you have judged guilty of not conforming to your spiritual status quo? Setting yourself up as judge, jury, and executioner, are you sir??

Do NOT judge me or my sincerity. Isn't THAT in your Bible, sir??? You have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER where I've been.

[]http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_evil.gif[/]

...screw it.. I am done with it.

July 26, 2006

Darryl, that is exactly the kind of comment that we expect you not to make in this forum.

There are a number of us here who have probably had more contact with Pam, than you, who accept her questions as sincere one. Further, I have seen these same questions come from other sincere people. They are not questions that could only come from an insincer person.

It is not for you to judge Pam as you have done. If that is what you want to do here, please go elsewhere.

July 27, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said: [:"blue"]OK, give us the Bible's definition of selfishness, not your spin on it. [/]

Gerry

The no spin zone:

1 John 2:16 For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. [NIV]

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned [:"red"] every one to his own way[/]; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. [RSV]

1 Cor 13:5 It [love] is not self-seeking [NIV]

July 27, 2006

Is it self-seeking to satisfy one's hunger? Thirst? Work so that one can buy clothes for one's self?

Gerry

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