Was Jesus selfish?

August 3, 2006

What the law requires:

1 Cor 10:24 Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

Why we can't be under law:

Phil 2:21 For everyone looks out for his own interests, not those of Jesus Christ.

August 3, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said:

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Robert said:

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Gerry Cabalo said: On this planet one has to fend for his/her own food & clothing...

The Bible says that if you have food and clothing with this be content! Would you be content, Gerry?

Nooooooooooo wayyyyyyyyy!!!

"Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, 'Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.'" Heb 13:5

August 3, 2006

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Robert said: 1 Cor 10:24 Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

"You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth.” [DA 439]

August 3, 2006

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Robert said:

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Gerry Cabalo said:

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Robert said:

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Gerry Cabalo said: On this planet one has to fend for his/her own food & clothing...

The Bible says that if you have food and clothing with this be content! Would you be content, Gerry?

Nooooooooooo wayyyyyyyyy!!!

"Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, 'Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.'" Heb 13:5

[:"blue"]Robert, has it ever occurred to you how dishonest it is to take only a portion of what someone said & twist it to look like he/she said something else? But then, I shouldn't be surprised. You do the same with the Bible and EGW.

Here was your question & my reply.

Robert: The Bible says that if you have food and clothing with this be content! Would you be content, Gerry?

Gerry: Nooooooooooo wayyyyyyyyy!!! Because God promised so much more than just food or clothing!!! What father or mother is content to give their son or daughter just enough for bare existence and leave them homeless?

"Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's who shall not receive a hundrefold now in this time - HOUSES and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions - and in the age to come, eternal life." Mk 10:29,30 NKJ. [/]

Gerry

August 3, 2006

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Robert said:

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Robert said: 1 Cor 10:24 Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

"You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth.” [DA 439]

[:"blue"]Talking to yourself now, eh? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/mittelgr124.gif" alt="" /> [/]

Gerry

August 3, 2006

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Robert said:

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Gerry Cabalo said: I suppose this snobbing clown wants us to rise no higher than our ancestors.

“Sin originated [how?] in self-seeking. Lucifer, the covering cherub, desired to be first in heaven.” [i.e., he wanted to be # 1] [FLB 68]

[:"blue"]"Both riches and honor come from You,

and You reign over all.

In Your hand is power and might;

In Your hand it is to make great

And to give strength to all." 1 Chr 29:12 NKJ.

"Here is what I have seen: It is good and fitting for one to eat and drink, and to enjoy the goof of all his labor in which he toils under the sun all the days of his life which God gives him; for it is his heritage.

As for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, and given him power to eat of it, to receive his heritage and rejoice in his labor - this is the gift of God. Eccl 5:18,19 NKJ.[/]

Gerry

August 3, 2006

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Robert said:

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Robert said: 1 Cor 10:24 Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

"You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth.” [DA 439]

[:"blue"]You remind me of the people Jesus described that wantlay burdens on other people but lifts no finger to do the same. [/]

Gerry

August 3, 2006

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Robert said:

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Gerry Cabalo said: I suppose this snobbing clown wants us to rise no higher than our ancestors.

“Sin originated [how?] in self-seeking. Lucifer, the covering cherub, desired to be first in heaven.” [i.e., he wanted to be # 1] [FLB 68]

[:"blue"]Sin to want to improve one's self? Wanting to be better is tantamount to Lucifer wanting to be #1?

Want a mediocre doctor? Mediocre mechanic? Mediocre teacher? Mediocre lawyer? Mediocre husband/wife? Mediocre children? Maybe you do, but for me? Nooooooooooo wwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy!!!!

"For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. And to one he gave five talents. to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability....Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another 5 talents. And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord's money." Mt 25:14-19 NKJ

You know the rest of the story. [/]

Mediocrity? Status quo? Sorry, but it's not in my Lord's vocabulary.

Gerry

August 4, 2006

[Deleted at the request of Robert, I had not seen it--GM].]

August 4, 2006

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Robert said:

What's the best way to shut up a legalist? Give him more law than he gives you. And that's what I do. I go far beyond the mere letter of the law hoping that it will humble you and that you will accept God's graceRob

[:"red"] "Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously" [/] 1 Peter 2:23 KJV

Your ability to attack those whom you feel responsible to put in their place, Robert, reveals the master you serve, whether intentionally or out of ignorance based on selectively ignoring the Word of which you are convicted.

May God have mercy on your soul.

[:"red"] "Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

And having an high priest over the house of God;

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works " [/] Heb 10:15-24 KJV

When I see this manifested in your posts, Robert, then I will consider the fruit of your communication as a leading of the Holy Spirit.

[:"red"] "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" [/] Romans 1:18 KJV

[:"red"] "Wash ye, make ye pure, Turn aside the evil of your doings, from before Mine eyes, Cease to do evil, learn to do good." [/] Isaiah 1:16 YLT

August 4, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said:

[:"blue"]"Both riches and honor come from You,

and You reign over all.

In Your hand is power and might;

In Your hand it is to make great

And to give strength to all." 1 Chr 29:12 NKJ.

"Here is what I have seen: It is good and fitting for one to eat and drink, and to enjoy the goof of all his labor in which he toils under the sun all the days of his life which God gives him; for it is his heritage.

As for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, and given him power to eat of it, to receive his heritage and rejoice in his labor - this is the gift of God. Eccl 5:18,19 NKJ.[/]

Gerry

It's good to be reminded of that, Gerry. And I believe the same principle is active under the New Covenant as was active under the Old.

[:"red"] "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." [/] 3 John 1:2 KJV

August 4, 2006

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LifeHiscost said: Your ability to attack those whom you feel responsible to put in their place, Robert, reveals the master you serve

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Matt 23:27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

August 4, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said:As for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, and given him power to eat of it, to receive his heritage and rejoice in his labor - this is the gift of God. Eccl 5:18,19 NKJ.[/]

Gerry

Ecc 2:24 A man can do nothing better than to eat and drink and find satisfaction in his work. This too, I see, is from the hand of God, [why?] 25 for without him, who can eat or find enjoyment?

Again, without God you wouldn't have life, right? In fact without God you wouldn't be sinning, right? You are able to sin because God has given you life. You gain wealth because you have life, but it doesn't mean that it's not self-centered.

August 4, 2006

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LifeHiscost said: Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." [/] 3 John 1:2 KJV

Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in health; I know that it is well with your soul [RSV]

Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well. [NIV]

August 4, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said: "Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's who shall not receive a hundrefold now in this time - HOUSES and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions - and in the age to come, eternal life." Mk 10:29,30 NKJ. [/] Gerry

Have you "left house" and family for Christ's sake? If not your whole point is disputable!

August 4, 2006

Is God against wealth? No! What God's law is against is the manner we gain wealth. Self-seeking is sin, period.

In Christ's life there was no self-seeking and the result was poverty. In heaven everyone will not be bent to his own way. Therefore in heaven there will be no poverty because there's no "self".

Having said that, let me remind you of what Jesus said when He was here on earth:

Matt 19:24 it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

August 4, 2006

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Robert said:

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Gerry Cabalo said: You remind me of the people Jesus described that want to lay burdens on other people but lifts no finger to do the same. Gerry

Actually, no! You are the guardian of the law. You are the one who bashes believers with law, law, law and more law. You are a blooming legalist!

[NOTE: Robert has retracted his previous statement--GM.]

[:"blue"]May I suggest that you study what the word "keep" means in the Hebrew & Greek mean?

"Give me understanding, and I shall keep [natsar- guard, watch] Your law;

Indeed, I shall observe [shamar - keep, guard, protect, observe, treasure up, celebrate] it with my whole heart." Ps 119:33,34 NKJ.

"For whoever shall keep [tereo - to attend to carefully, guard, to observe],..." Jam 2:10 NKJ

So you see that every believer should be a guardian of the law. There is chaos on this planet because of the wanton disregard for law. Any spirit that is against the law that is holy, just, & good, is not from above, my friend; it is from the great arch rebel who is trying to sow as much chaos & destruction & suffering in God's universe in which everything operates by law.[/]

Gerry

August 4, 2006

It would seem reasonable to believe that anyone having such a wrap on the gospel, and with such perfect understanding of what others must do to be saved, would be the kindest, least offensive, and POOREST among us.

OR, with the ability to disregard any requirement of the law of God and have the understanding that all that is required is to believe in God, they should be the happiest on earth.

Do what you want, say what you want, no matter how sarcastic, live the way you want, as the law does not apply to this select group. Sounds much like a selfish child to me. They always believe if there were no rules or law to hamper them, they would be far happier. Don't see a child without rules that is very happy just as you don't see those here without regard for the law as very happy. Doesn't sound like good news to me.

Envy should not be among the behaviour traits of one that believes such. Critism of those that work hard to be the best they can be in their chosen profession seems misplaced for one that believes that no law exists to hamper them. Perhaps they are envious of the fact there are those that do have a dedication to a goal and have not expected it to be handed to them because they believe. Maybe they resent those that are not willing to share with those that spend their time uselessly in determining the problem is the greed of others.

Many have had a chance to be extremely grateful to those legalistic, greedy DR's only out after the almighty dollar. When the situation is critical, I want the BEST, the one that has pushed himself with God's help to be the best he can be. The one that a passing grade was not good enough. I want the one as close to a 100% as I can get.

It is not a sin to provide for your family, nor is it up to those envious of your abilities to determine how much is to much.

It seems rather telling that this "gospel of just believe, you are not under any law" has not brought a greater display of happiness to those that profess it. It gives you the opportunity to pursue, excel, gain wealth, do pretty much as you wish, as long as you believe. I only see bitterness, envy, and sarcasm.

We had a pathfinder leader that pushed us as young children to the utmost of our abilities. Not to be better than the next pathfinder club so we could take the honors. But to give our absolute best.We had a small club, much smaller than all those we competed against. Our biggest competition was with ourselves.

I already knew I was faster than the specific ones I would be competing against and saw no reason to push so hard. Told the leader so. Got an immediate dressing down as to this was not to beat the other guy, but to be the best I could be. While I was fast, he knew it was not my best. If my only intent was to beat the other guy, I was out of the race.

I don't see most of life as any different.

That is what I would wish in my DR, my children's teachers, our pastor, my mechanic etc. I want to know he/she cared enough to get the best education,willing to give to the utmost of their abilities. I don't think God ever endorsed mediocre anything.

Maybe that is why those responding here that believe in giving the absolute best of their God given abilities sound happier, more content, and a whole lot kinder than those that "understand the gospel" (the good news).

August 4, 2006

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Robert said:

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Gerry Cabalo said: "Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's who shall not receive a hundrefold now in this time - HOUSES and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions - and in the age to come, eternal life." Mk 10:29,30 NKJ. [/] Gerry

Have you "left house" and family for Christ's sake? If not your whole point is disputable!

[:"blue"]Yup. When I left the Philippines at 16, I left mother, sister, home, & relatives. When I left Hawaii, I left father, brother, home & relatives. Anything else you wanted me to leave behind? [/]

Gerry

August 4, 2006

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Robert said:

Is God against wealth? No! What God's law is against is the manner we gain wealth. Self-seeking is sin, period.

[:"blue"]God is not against wealth! Good!!! In fact, He is not not only not against wealth, but He IS for wealth. Now tell us HOW we can gain wealth without improving one's self, which you twist & call selfish & therefore sinful. [/]

Gerry

August 5, 2006

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bonnie said: I want to know he/she cared enough to get the best education, willing to give to the utmost of their abilities.

That's nice, but what's one of the motives? $$$$

Again,

"To what motive is appeal most often made? To self-seeking." [EGW]

"...When the light from Christ shines into our souls, we shall see how impure we are; we shall discern the selfishness of motive, the enmity against God, that has defiled every act of life." [EGW]

August 5, 2006

August 5, 2006

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Gerry Cabalo said: Now tell us HOW we can gain wealth without improving one's self, which you twist & call selfish & therefore sinful.

Any education gained must be for the benefit of others, not self. For this to happen, "There [must] be no rivalry, no self-seeking, no desire for the highest place. You will have that love which seeks not her own, [:"red"] but another's wealth[/].” [DA 439]

This will then bring unity! All revalry, competition and all attention getting antics will be shunned.

Compare: "All the believers were one in heart and mind [i.e., there was unity!]

The fruits of this union?

1] "No one said that any of the things which he possessed was his own, but they had everything in common."

2] "There were [:"Red"]no needy persons[/] [no poverty] among them"

Now read EGW's quote again:

"In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure [own way] but all, from pure, genuine love, will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132]

August 5, 2006

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Robert said:

1] "No one said that any of the things which he possessed was his own, but they had everything in common."

2] "There were [:"Red"]no needy persons[/] [no poverty] among them"

Q] How did "Ananias and Sapphira" bring "self" back into the equation?

A] "Ananias and Sapphira wished to be regarded [:"Red"]as giving all[/], and yet keep part. In order to do this, they falsified." [EGW]

Essentially their sin was self-righteousness. They played holy while coveting....

August 5, 2006

"Before the final visitation of God's judgments upon the earth there will be [future tense] among the people of the Lord such a revival of primitive godliness as has not been witnessed since apostolic times. The Spirit and power of God will be poured out upon His children." [EGW]

This, I believe, is speaking of Rev 12:17...those "who keep the commandments of God"....They are NOT mechanically keeping rules. Selfishness is banished...the flesh is held captive by the Spirit of God and Christ's selfless nature is seen through His church at that time.

Rob

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