Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 Quote: A good, thorough study of the Investigative Judgment shows how this takes place. A lot of people hate it because they want to hold on to their sins. This type of Christian bashing is totally unnecessary ... untrue and judgmental. I've never met anyone like this. I find that most are sincere and do not "want to hold on to their sins". Time to wake up and smell the roses, as they say, Redwood. That's the reality. Yes, there are people-- perhaps you know some-- who love their sins to death. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Michael144 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 So when you sin what are you "choosing?" I mean since you do still sin who is it that you are choosing to serve when you knowingly sin? Quote 1 Corinthians4:5
Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 I would do just what the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy say God is doing. The universe is kept safe and free from sin not by giving immortality to unrepentant rebels but to those who submit to Christ and His reign, or rule. Christ's reign comes first in our hearts and minds. If He doesn't rule in our lives, we wouldn't make very good citizens of heaven and eternity. Even God doesn't have the power to save everyone, because God refuses to force people's will. People have to choose. There are obviously many who don't want to be saved in God's kingdom, and God won't make them be there if they don't want to be. It's time to choose now. Now is the day of salvation. Someday it will be too late. [/quote'] Please quit dancing around the question like a seasoned Republican politician and give me a yes or a no answer. If you are asking if I would throw a switch that would force everyone to want to be saved, no I would not. And I would not save everyone against their will or choice. If you are asking if I would make everyone be saved, no, I would not. I would offer people a choice, just as God does. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Quote: If you are asking if I would make everyone be saved, no, I would not. I would offer people a choice, just as God does. After years of reading your posts .... I would have to say that you believe God gives them a chance to EARN the opportunity to be saved ... rather than choice. Choice refers to the opportunity to accept a gift for instance. From what I've heard ... on this forum ... you have to accept the gift and then prove that you deserve it. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 Quote: If you are asking if I would make everyone be saved, no, I would not. I would offer people a choice, just as God does. After years of reading your posts .... I would have to say that you believe God gives them a chance to EARN the opportunity to be saved ... rather than choice. Choice refers to the opportunity to accept a gift for instance. From what I've heard ... on this forum ... you have to accept the gift and then prove that you deserve it. The Bible says, Choose you this day whom you will serve. We have a choice to make-- not once in a lifetime but every moment of every day. You have to choose and then mean it. The life will show whether we mean it or not. That's what both the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy teach. It's not a matter of earning anything. We can't possibly earn salvation. But if we are truly trusting in Christ in the Biblical sense, the fruits will be there, just as a good tree will produce good fruit. An orange tree doesn't have to prove it's an orange tree. We know it's an orange tree by its fruit. Study Eph. 2: 8-10. "We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk (live) in them." Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Quote: But if we are truly trusting in Christ in the Biblical sense This is the problem. I know of no one ... and I include myself ... I know of NO one who is truly trusting in Christ. If we are truly trusting in Christ ... we WILL NOT SIN. That is clear. IF we know God as is our privilege to know God ... We will NOT sin. But that sinless relationship is NOT required nor is it expected. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 Quote: If you are asking if I would make everyone be saved, no, I would not. I would offer people a choice, just as God does. Choice refers to the opportunity to accept a gift for instance. From what I've heard ... on this forum ... you have to accept the gift and then prove that you deserve it. It's like receiving a rope when you're drowning. You have to grab the rope and firmly but not let go. You have to use the strength God gives us to hold on. Have complete trust in and reliance upon the rope and on those holding the other end. How long? Until we reach the shore. It's like getting a check as a gift for a million dollars. You have to go use it, first depositing it and then using it. Some people don't even deposit it, let alone use it. Some don't even believe they've been given the check. Some say they believe it but they don't act like it. The Investigative Judgment will reveal who is just flapping their lips and who really believes in Christ. There is no such thing as "once saved, always saved." Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Quote: The Investigative Judgment will reveal who is just flapping their lips and who really believes in Christ. That's an interesting way to put it ... Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Woody Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Quote: The Investigative Judgment will reveal who is just flapping their lips and who really believes in Christ. That's an interesting way to put it ... I am willing to admit that I am one who is just flappin' their lips. I talk big ... yes. But when it comes to obedience ... I FAIL. Praise God ... Jesus came and lived a perfect life. And HIS life is placed in place of mine. I can accept the gift of life that He offers me. And I don't have to prove that I deserve it ... because I do not deserve it. I am judged by what is in my heart. And my Saviour knows my heart. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 Quote: The Investigative Judgment will reveal who is just flapping their lips and who really believes in Christ. That's an interesting way to put it ... Not only interesting but true. It is the difference between profession of faith in Christ and really having faith. That's what James 2: 20-26 teaches. "Faith without works is dead." "The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom." Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Like I said in the previous post ... I profess yes. I flap my lips ... yes. But I don't obey as I should. So, I fail. But I know the one who did not fail. He is my hope. He is my security. He is my Saviour. His life is placed in place of mine. IN the judgment .... It is HIS life that is examined ... NOT mine. My life is covered by His Robe. Thank you Jesus ............. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Michael144 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Redwood Quote: The Investigative Judgment will reveal who is just flapping their lips and who really believes in Christ. That's an interesting way to put it ... I am willing to admit that I am one who is just flappin' their lips. I talk big ... yes. But when it comes to obedience ... I FAIL. Praise God ... Jesus came and lived a perfect life. And HIS life is placed in place of mine. I can accept the gift of life that He offers me. And I don't have to prove that I deserve it ... because I do not deserve it. I am judged by what is in my heart. And my Saviour knows my heart. This is a post from someone who not only understands reality but has the humility to admit it. During my 15 years as a 7th Day Adventist I was taking a college course in Sociology when the teacher said something that was the beginning of me waking up and my removal from religious bondage. He said, "The study of human behavior in Sociology has consistently came to one conclusion without fail. That people say one thing and do another." God sees the secret things we do J317. Can you share some of those secret sins with us? Lust Covetousness Murder - Ever wished someone to be dead How bout keeping the Sabbath-Can we really keep it? How many times have you "in secret" turned on your television after church on Sabbath? And on and on and... We say one thing and do another That which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit. There is not one ounce of righteousness in our flesh. And anything that may appear to be good is self motivated. [What can I gain from this]Even attempting to justify your own eternal life is not based on righteousness. Quote 1 Corinthians4:5
Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 Like I said in the previous post ... I profess yes. I flap my lips ... yes. But I don't obey as I should. So, I fail. But I know the one who did not fail. He is my hope. He is my security. He is my Saviour. His life is placed in place of mine. IN the judgment .... It is HIS life that is examined ... NOT mine. My life is covered by His Robe. Thank you Jesus ............. Christ's life is not under examination in the Investigative Judgment. You've said that you believe and accept the Fundamental Beliefs. Here is part of what it says, and there is nothing here that indicates that Christ's life is the One which is under examination: "The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom." Also read GC 483-- Quote: As the books of record are opened in the judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. Beginning with those who first lived upon the earth, our Advocate presents the cases of each successive generation, and closes with the living. Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected. When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life, and the record of their good deeds will be erased from the book of God's remembrance. The Lord declared to Moses: "Whosoever hath sinned against Me, him will I blot out of My book." Exodus 32:33. And says the prophet Ezekiel: "When the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, . . . all his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned." Ezekiel 18:24. All who have truly repented of sin, and by faith claimed the blood of Christ as their atoning sacrifice, have had pardon entered against their names in the books of heaven; as they have become partakers of the righteousness of Christ, and their characters are found to be in harmony with the law of God, their sins will be blotted out, and they themselves will be accounted worthy of eternal life. Christ's life will be seen in the Investigative Judgment, but it will be reflected in the lives of those who have truly accepted Him. The judgment scenes in Daniel 7 and 8 and Rev. 14-21 are not about Christ's life but about the lives of human beings. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 My life will never be seen. Only the life of Jesus will be seen. His life will be in place of mine. When people see me ... they will see the life of Jesus. Now ... the wicked ... they will be judged by the sinful works of their life against the standard of the Law. But the law can't touch me because I am covered by the life of Jesus. Praise His Name. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Woody Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Some think that they have to develop a Christ like Character here on this earth. But that is not our task. When we go to Heaven ... The Father will not see our character ... but ONLY sees the Character of the one who takes our place. Jesus says to the Father ... I know REDWOOD. And that is what matters. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 God sees the secret things we do J317. Yes, that is exactly what the Bible teaches, of course, and it is one reason for the Investigative Judgment. It's all recorded, not only our words but our thoughts and intentions and even the sins that we would commit if we had the opportunity to do them. It is all there unless we are in a faith-based relationship with Christ and are repenting of our sins and overcoming them by His grace and power. Our sins will one day be blotted out or our names will be blotted out. If you believe that all humanity will at last be saved in God's kingdom, you will have a great surprise. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 Some think that they have to develop a Christ like Character here on this earth. But that is not our task..... It's not about "having to develop a Christ-like character," Redwood. Go back to the tree again. Does the tree "have to develop" fruit? No, the fruit are the result of the nature of the tree. Our characters are changed into a Christ-like character because of the nature, or seed, that God plants in us. He puts His nature within us. See 1 John 3: 9. Also study Romans 8 and 2 Peter 1: 3, 4. Some people don't believe God's promises, such as Eph. 3: 19, "that you may be filled with all the fullness of God." It's true. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 I don't have a Christ like Character. Do you? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 My life will never be seen. .... If you are practicing willful, deliberate sin, and you are not using God's power to help you cease to practice willful, deliberate sin-- and if you do not use God's power to help you resist and overcome sin-- then I have bad news for you. The lives of people who go on practicing willful, deliberate sin will not only be seen by the entire universe following the 1000 years, but if those sins were not confessed and overcome, such people will be cast into the lake of fire along with the devil and his angels. We need to face the Bible truth and the truth as the Spirit of Prophecy gives it, and not live under illusions that people can live that kind of life and not reap the dire results. We reap what we sow. If we sow to the flesh, to the flesh we will reap death. Romans 8: 13; Gal. 6: 8. Anyone who teaches that all mankind will be saved is teaching the doctrines of devils. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 If I am among the wicked ... yes my life will be seen. But I am saved ... so my sins will be covered by Christ's Robe. No one will see them. When they look at my life ... they just see the life of Jesus. So, my willful sins ... are forgiven and covered. My life is viewed as perfect against the demands of the Law. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Michael144 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Michael144 God sees the secret things we do J317. Yes, that is exactly what the Bible teaches, of course, and it is one reason for the Investigative Judgment. It's all recorded, not only our words but our thoughts and intentions and even the sins that we would commit if we had the opportunity to do them. It is all there unless we are in a faith-based relationship with Christ and are repenting of our sins and overcoming them by His grace and power. Our sins will one day be blotted out or our names will be blotted out. If you believe that all humanity will at last be saved in God's kingdom, you will have a great surprise. Dude what gospel are you reading from...."Sins you would commit?" You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Concerning Ellen White: If they speak not according to this word there is no light in them. Your view of God is tainted by the doctrines of men. It was done at the cross. Quote 1 Corinthians4:5
Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 If I am among the wicked ... yes my life will be seen. But I am saved ... The Bible teaches that we are being saved. It's like the man being pulled to shore. He is being saved, but the process of his salvation is not over until he reaches shore. See Acts 2: 47. It doesn't say "those who were saved," but "those who were BEING SAVED." Have you not read that both the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy teach that our names may be blotted out of the Book of Life? We do not believe in the teaching known as "once saved, always saved." It leads many to think that they will be saved no matter what they do. 1 John 5: 11 says that God has given us eternal life and that this life is in His Son. Does that mean that all who have accepted the gift of eternal life will also receive the gift of immortality? 1 John 5: 12 answers: "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." So it is conditional based on whether we have the Son or not. What does it mean to have the Son? It means to have the Spirit of Christ in you. If you do not have the Spirit of Christ living in you, you are none of His. Romans 8: 9. (John 3: 3, 5 teaches the same thing.) Read the whole of Romans 8: 5-11. 1 John 3: 1-10 contains God's diagnostic test to determine whether we have His seed, or nature, and whether we have His Spirit living in us. Don't ignore it. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Michael144 Posted March 13, 2009 Posted March 13, 2009 The Bible teaches that we are being saved. You are in belief of false doctrine my friend. Being saved? So when Jesus said it is done he really didn't mean that either? Quote 1 Corinthians4:5
Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 Dude what gospel are you reading from...."Sins you would commit?" Study The Great Controversy, the chapter Facing Life's Record. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Moderators Posted March 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 The Bible teaches that we are being saved. You are in belief of false doctrine my friend. Being saved? So when Jesus said it is done he really didn't mean that either? What kind of verb is that in Acts. 2: 47? It's a present passive participle, isn't it? Yes, it's present tense. That means the process is ongoing and hasn't been completed yet. That is why all translations read "were being saved," and not "who were saved" or "had been saved." If a translation says "who were saved," you may be sure the translator flunked his introductory course in Koine Greek or forgot what he learned in it. What did Jesus say was "done" at the cross? Did he say all people are saved or even that all people would be saved? John 17: 4; Daniel 9: 24, 26, 27; Romans 3: 21-26 tell us what Jesus was saying. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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