Is It Possible to Live Without Sinning?

[BobRyan]

I am a slave to sin ... that is why I can come to Christ. That is why He came. It is for those slaves that He came.

You have correctly stated the Bible position on the condition, the motivation and the need of the lost person who sees his need of Christ.

Well done!

But Romans 6 is talking about the SAVED person. The one who has BEEN baptized and united not just in death with Christ - but also in LIFE with Christ. Gal 2:20 kind of LIFE.

in Christ,

Bob

[Michael144]

Or we could just read the Bible and in Romans 6 find out that those who proclaim a "gospel of slavery to sin" are mistaken in what the chapter actually says.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob? No one here is proclaiming a 'Slavery to sin'.

As a matter of fact the argument being presented against what I am trying to say is exactly that; Slavery to sin.

1 John 3:9 says anyone born of God cannot sin so naturally when you read this scripture it is your nature to rearrange what the verse says by adding the word 'practices' which is not found but none the less make the words are just as deadly to the flesh..

What is practices? Once a month? Twice a year?

You fool yourselves into thinking you are good when there are none that are good save one.

Do you still sin Bob? Of course you do so I'm quite curious to find out what your definition of slavery to sin is.

The fact is you cannot explain why you still sin leaving a slave to it.

Most Christians do not know who the scripture is speaking of when it uses the terms 'the wicked'.

It is you who are the slaves to sin because you continue to attempt to not sin and then can't explain why you cannot stop.

The flesh is removed in the Gospel just exactly like a circumcision. Who is the slave to sin?

You don't have all the light yet....And it is so simple but yet the Gospel has been severely complicated...BY THE MINDS OF MEN.

Your Gospel is not good news because you say we must stop sinning yet cannot perform the very doctrines your put forth and then and cannot answer why.

It's because you have not discovered WHO the wicked are yet. This knowledge is blocked from your eyes because of self righteousness.

Have you stopped sinning yet Bob and if not then I can bet that you are secretly confused as to why you refuse to stop sinning.

[cardw]

With all the posts given in the last few days it is quite evident that no one knows how to be saved.

That's why I consider all of this stuff to be absolute nonsense.

Its an exercise in futility with no possible method of verification.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

Or we could just read the Bible and in Romans 6 find out that those who proclaim a "gospel of slavery to sin" are mistaken in what the chapter actually says.

in Christ,

Bob

I am a slave to sin ... that is why I can come to Christ.

Yes, He came to set captives free from slavery to sin. Those who are set free are no longer slaves of sin. That means that sin and the flesh no longer dominate their life. If you are still a slave of sin and are allowing the flesh and sin to reign in your life, you are not living the life that God has planned for you.

Romans 6: 14, 15-- "For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? CERTAINLY NOT."

Look at verse 17. "YOU WERE SLAVES OF SIN." If you still are a slave of sin, Redwood, THERE IS SOMETHING DESPERATELY WRONG AND YOU NEED TO SEEK HELP FROM GOD AND ALSO FROM A BIBLE BELIEVING PASTOR.

God's plan is that youNOT continue to be a slave of sin. If you are-- if you feel that sin is dominating your life and that you can't stop sinning-- it is not God's fault. You should be experiencing victory after victory in your life. 2 Peter 1 is a reality, not empty promises and lies.

[John317]

... 1 John 3:9 says anyone born of God cannot sin so naturally when you read this scripture it is your nature to rearrange what the verse says by adding the word 'practices' which is not found but none the less make the words are just as deadly to the flesh..

1 John 3: 9 says, "cannot habitually commit sin," meaning that the person who has God's seed, or nature, cannot live a life devoted to sin. The NIV correctly translates it "continue to sin," and the English Standard Version, "he cannot keep on sinning."

The Amplified gives it best:

9 No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and [habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

The reason it is translated as "keep on sinning," or "practice sinning," is that the Greek verb is in the present tense, signifying a continuous act. This is the kind of sinful life that Peter describes in 2 Peter 2: 14 in which those who walk according to the flesh cannot cease from sin. That is not the life of the Christian as God means for it to be and it is certainly not necessary. It is the life of the man of Romans 7, a man who does not have the Holy Spirit. That is why he cannot stop practicing unrighteousness and cannot do right (see Romans 7: 19).

[John317]

Have you stopped sinning yet Bob and if not then I can bet that you are secretly confused as to why you refuse to stop sinning.

Is it a sin to be tempted?

Can we resist temptation? Can we say no to sin?

[phkrause]

I think that was my point to what I was replying to. But thanks for the heads up.

pk

[John317]

Have you stopped sinning yet Bob and if not then I can bet that you are secretly confused as to why you refuse to stop sinning.

First of all, no one can stop something they are not even aware they are doing, so when the Bible talks about "ceasing from sin," it is talking about stopping acts or thoughts that the individual is conscious of.

1 John 1 and 2 make it plain that believers are enabled to "practice the truth' and to "keep His [God] commandments." We are enabled to have fellowship with Christ and to walk (live) in the light. (1: 6, 7)

But it also says that believers may commit sin (2: 1). Notice it does say that believers must sin. In fact, John says his motive for writing is so "that you may not sin." Obviously then, we don't HAVE to sin. We can choose not to. If we couldn't choose not to sin-- if sin was something we can't help doing-- the appeal that he makes would be senseless.

Notice the Apostle's next words, "And IF anyone sins..." Not WHEN anyone sins but IF anyone sins. (So sin is something we choose to do or not to do; it is not something we do in our sleep or which our body does simply by virtue of being alive, apart from the mind.)

If no one can possibly keep God's commandments, it would also be senseless to say that "by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments."

What you are doing when you say that no one can keep the commandments, is to show that either you don't understand what it means to keep the commandments or else you are saying the Bible does not tell the truth.

I suspect that you think that keeping the commandments means being absolutely sinless or absolutely perfect. That would be a mistake. How do we know? Because the words in 1 John 2: 3, 4 are following the words in 1: 5-10, which are written to people who do commit sin and need to make confession of their sins. Therefore it is obvious that the people who "keep the commandments" are not sinless. They continue to have sinful natures. However, notice that they are not dominated by their sinful natures. Rather they are practicing the truth. Their life is dominated by the Spirit and they produce the fruit of the Spirit, not the works of the flesh. Study Romans 6 to 8: 17 and Galatians 5: 16-26.

[Woody]

The Law of God requires absolute perfect obedience.

There is NO excuse for sin.

[Michael144]

Originally Posted By: Michael144

... 1 John 3:9 says anyone born of God cannot sin so naturally when you read this scripture it is your nature to rearrange what the verse says by adding the word 'practices' which is not found but none the less make the words are just as deadly to the flesh..

1 John 3: 9 says, "cannot habitually commit sin," meaning that the person who has God's seed, or nature, cannot live a life devoted to sin. The NIV correctly translates it "continue to sin," and the English Standard Version, "he cannot keep on sinning."

The Amplified gives it best:

9 No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and [habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

The reason it is translated as "keep on sinning," or "practice sinning," is that the Greek verb is in the present tense, signifying a continuous act. This is the kind of sinful life that Peter describes in 2 Peter 2: 14 in which those who walk according to the flesh cannot cease from sin. That is not the life of the Christian as God means for it to be and it is certainly not necessary. It is the life of the man of Romans 7, a man who does not have the Holy Spirit. That is why he cannot stop practicing unrighteousness and cannot do right (see Romans 7: 19).

This is utter folly.

[Michael144]

Originally Posted By: Michael144

Have you stopped sinning yet Bob and if not then I can bet that you are secretly confused as to why you refuse to stop sinning.

First of all, no one can stop something they are not even aware they are doing, so when the Bible talks about "ceasing from sin," it is talking about stopping acts or thoughts that the individual is conscious of.

1 John 1 and 2 make it plain that believers are enabled to "practice the truth' and to "keep His [God] commandments." We are enabled to have fellowship with Christ and to walk (live) in the light. (1: 6, 7)

But it also says that believers may commit sin (2: 1). Notice it does say that believers must sin. In fact, John says his motive for writing is so "that you may not sin." Obviously then, we don't HAVE to sin. We can choose not to. If we couldn't choose not to sin-- if sin was something we can't help doing-- the appeal that he makes would be senseless.

Notice the Apostle's next words, "And IF anyone sins..." Not WHEN anyone sins but IF anyone sins. (So sin is something we choose to do or not to do; it is not something we do in our sleep or which our body does simply by virtue of being alive, apart from the mind.)

If no one can possibly keep God's commandments, it would also be senseless to say that "by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments."

What you are doing when you say that no one can keep the commandments, is to show that either you don't understand what it means to keep the commandments or else you are saying the Bible does not tell the truth.

I suspect that you think that keeping the commandments means being absolutely sinless or absolutely perfect. That would be a mistake. How do we know? Because the words in 1 John 2: 3, 4 are following the words in 1: 5-10, which are written to people who do commit sin and need to make confession of their sins. Therefore it is obvious that the people who "keep the commandments" are not sinless. They continue to have sinful natures. However, notice that they are not dominated by their sinful natures. Rather they are practicing the truth. Their life is dominated by the Spirit and they produce the fruit of the Spirit, not the works of the flesh. Study Romans 6 to 8: 17 and Galatians 5: 16-26.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

[olger]

said Jesus the Christ:

"Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire."

Whatsoever causes you to sin must be pruned away. So fatal is sin, that freedom from it is necessary to receive life.

Do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with thy God,

`oG

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: John317

1 John 3: 9 says' date=' "cannot habitually commit sin," meaning that the person who has God's seed, or nature, cannot live a life devoted to sin. The NIV correctly translates it "continue to sin," and the English Standard Version, "he cannot keep on sinning."

The Amplified gives it best:

9 No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and [habitually'] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

The reason it is translated as "keep on sinning," or "practice sinning," is that the Greek verb is in the present tense, signifying a continuous act. This is the kind of sinful life that Peter describes in 2 Peter 2: 14 in which those who walk according to the flesh cannot cease from sin. That is not the life of the Christian as God means for it to be and it is certainly not necessary. It is the life of the man of Romans 7, a man who does not have the Holy Spirit. That is why he cannot stop practicing unrighteousness and cannot do right (see Romans 7: 19).

This is utter folly.

No faith in THE Word?

[Gerr]

Quote:

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

That's what happened to Lucifer. He sinned in the full light of God's glory. Now Satan CANNOT repent. A warning to all of us who persist in disobedience.

[Stewart (SDA)]

said Jesus the Christ:

"Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire."

Whatsoever causes you to sin must be pruned away. So fatal is sin, that freedom from it is necessary to receive life.

____________

I agree ‘oG, whatever causes us to sin must be pruned away. And yes, I believe too, that conscious sin is fatal, and that freedom from it is necessary to receive life.

The exhortation from Hebrews 12:1 comes to mind about laying “aside every weight, and the sin which does so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us”.

Of course it is impossible to run this race if we are carrying the burden of a defiled conscience, or, as Paul describes it, an “evil conscience” (Heb 10:22).

Many people try to lay aside their weights, hindrances, and sins so that they can run the race set before them. But the common problem seems to be that, having laid aside such things for a little while, they take them back again. Peter describes this condition well when he says, “…it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.” (2Pet 2:22) Tragically, he says of these people that “it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness” (2:21).

It is rare (and in my view it will become increasingly rare) to find instances where somebody having been purged of a sin (2Pet 1:9), does NOT return to it as the dog returns to his own vomit.

The reason for this, I believe, is that “the new birth is a rare experience in this age of the world… Many, so many, who assume the name of Christ are unsanctified and unholy. They have been baptized, but they were buried alive. Self did not die, and therefore they did not rise to newness of life in Christ.” (6BC 1075) …And therefore there is no power in them to truly overcome.

Regards,

Stewart.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

1 John 3: 9 says' date=' "cannot habitually commit sin," meaning that the person who has God's seed, or nature, cannot live a life devoted to sin. The NIV correctly translates it "continue to sin," and the English Standard Version, "he cannot keep on sinning."

The Amplified gives it best:

9 No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and [habitually'] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

The reason it is translated as "keep on sinning," or "practice sinning," is that the Greek verb is in the present tense, signifying a continuous act. This is the kind of sinful life that Peter describes in 2 Peter 2: 14 in which those who walk according to the flesh cannot cease from sin. That is not the life of the Christian as God means for it to be and it is certainly not necessary. It is the life of the man of Romans 7, a man who does not have the Holy Spirit. That is why he cannot stop practicing unrighteousness and cannot do right (see Romans 7: 19).

This is utter folly.

You're going to have to do a better job than that. You are merely giving a conclusion. Show from Scripture and from analysis that this is wrong. Anyone can make a claim that someone's argument is wrong. We could go back and forth all day saying, "You're wrong. Utter folly." That would be nothing.

SHOW it, don't tell it.

[John317]

Many, so many, who assume the name of Christ are unsanctified and unholy. They have been baptized, but they were buried alive. Self did not die, and therefore they did not rise to newness of life in Christ.” (6BC 1075) …And therefore there is no power in them to truly overcome.

You just hit the proverbial nail squarely on its head.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

First of all' date=' no one can stop something they are not even aware they are doing, so when the Bible talks about "ceasing from sin," it is talking about stopping acts or thoughts that the individual is conscious of.

1 John 1 and 2 make it plain that believers are enabled to "practice the truth' and to "keep His [God'] commandments." We are enabled to have fellowship with Christ and to walk (live) in the light. (1: 6, 7)

But it also says that believers may commit sin (2: 1). Notice it does say that believers must sin. In fact, John says his motive for writing is so "that you may not sin." Obviously then, we don't HAVE to sin. We can choose not to. If we couldn't choose not to sin-- if sin was something we can't help doing-- the appeal that he makes would be senseless.

Notice the Apostle's next words, "And IF anyone sins..." Not WHEN anyone sins but IF anyone sins. (So sin is something we choose to do or not to do; it is not something we do in our sleep or which our body does simply by virtue of being alive, apart from the mind.)

If no one can possibly keep God's commandments, it would also be senseless to say that "by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments."

What you are doing when you say that no one can keep the commandments, is to show that either you don't understand what it means to keep the commandments or else you are saying the Bible does not tell the truth.

I suspect that you think that keeping the commandments means being absolutely sinless or absolutely perfect. That would be a mistake. How do we know? Because the words in 1 John 2: 3, 4 are following the words in 1: 5-10, which are written to people who do commit sin and need to make confession of their sins. Therefore it is obvious that the people who "keep the commandments" are not sinless. They continue to have sinful natures. However, notice that they are not dominated by their sinful natures. Rather they are practicing the truth. Their life is dominated by the Spirit and they produce the fruit of the Spirit, not the works of the flesh. Study Romans 6 to 8: 17 and Galatians 5: 16-26.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

That verse is not talking about Christians who commit a sin. It is speaking of Christians who turn away from Christ and reject Him as their Savior and Lord.

Please compare 1 John 1: 5-10 and 2: 1-6. Those are the verses which apply to Christians. Hebrews 6: 4 refers to people who commit a willful and entire apostasy. The writer of Hebrews is warning his readers not to reject Christ in this way.

[John317]

The Law of God requires absolute perfect obedience.

There is NO excuse for sin.

The law of God does require absolutely perfect obedience if we are going to be saved by works of the law. But we're not saved by law-obedience.

We're talking about people who are putting all their trust in Christ's merits and are born from above. Such people's lives are brought into conformity to the will of God, which is expressed in His law. But it's a process and not something that takes place overnight. It happens through a personal, faith-based relationship with Christ. It's like the fruit growing from trees. It will happen if the trees' roots are healthy and deep in the soil and being watered and fed good.

Remember, Redwood, that Jesus said "if you love me, you will obey my commandments." (John 14: 15.) So if we find we are not obeying His commandments, the thing to do is fall deeper and deeper in love with Jesus.

Who loves Jesus the most? Those who realize the full extent of the sins that Jesus has saved them from, and each day their realization grows more and more.

It's true that there is no excuse for sin. We shouldn't-- and don't-- excuse sin. Sin is something to be condemned. Christ condemned it in the flesh, showing that there is no reason for it. We ought to be separating sin from ourselves. But we can only do this through the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, we don't excuse it. We confess it and repent of it and seek God's power to overcome it in our lives. God enables us to resist all temptations to sin if we truly want His power to do it. "But IF anyone sins, we have an Advocate...." And "should we go on sinning? By no means," says Romans 6: 1, 15.

Do you believe this? If not, study 1 John 1: 5-10 and 2: 1-6.

[Woody]

Quote:

But we're not saved by law-obedience.

We are most certainly saved by law-obedience. The demands of the law MUST be answered. The question IS :

Whose obedience do you depend upon?

If you depend upon your personal obedience ... you will be lost.

If you depend upon the obedience in the life of Christ ... you will be saved. For Christ perfectly answered the demands of the law. We are not able to do that.

Quote:

"Every soul may say: "By His perfect obedience He has satisfied the claims of the law, and my only hope is found in looking to Him as my substitute and surety, who obeyed the law perfectly for me. By faith in His merits I am free from the condemnation of the law. He clothes me with His righteousness, which answers all the demands of the law. I am complete in Him who brings in everlasting righteousness. He presents me to God in the spotless garment of which no thread was woven by any human agent. All is of Christ, and all the glory, honor, and majesty are to be given to the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sins of the world." Ellen White 1893 in NL p. 27

[John317]

As I said, we must trust totally in the merits of Christ. He obeyed God perfectly and absolutely.

Your quote is good and I completely agree with it. Here are two others by the same writer:

Quote:

By living faith, by earnest prayer to God, and depending upon Jesus' merits, we are clothed with His righteousness, and we are saved. "Oh, yes," some say, "we are saved in doing nothing. In fact, I am saved. I need not keep the law of God. I am saved by the righteousness of Jesus Christ." Christ came to our world to bring all men back to allegiance to God. To take the position that you can break God's law, for Christ has done it all, is a position of death, for you are as verily a transgressor as anyone. FW 71

"Jesus regained heaven for man by bearing the test that Adam failed to endure; for He obeyed the law perfectly, and all who have a right conception of the plan of redemption will see that they cannot be saved while in transgression of God's holy precepts. They must cease to transgress the law and lay hold on the promises of God that are available for us through the merits of Christ." FW 89

"While true faith trusts wholly in Christ for salvation, it will lead to perfect conformity to the law of God. Faith is manifested in works." FW 52

[Guest]

As I said, we must trust totally in the merits of Christ. He obeyed God perfectly and absolutely.

Your quote is good and I completely agree with it. Here are two others by the same writer:

Quote:

By living faith, by earnest prayer to God, and depending upon Jesus' merits, we are clothed with His righteousness, and we are saved. "Oh, yes," some say, "we are saved in doing nothing. In fact, I am saved. I need not keep the law of God. I am saved by the righteousness of Jesus Christ." Christ came to our world to bring all men back to allegiance to God. To take the position that you can break God's law, for Christ has done it all, is a position of death, for you are as verily a transgressor as anyone. FW 71

"Jesus regained heaven for man by bearing the test that Adam failed to endure; for He obeyed the law perfectly, and all who have a right conception of the plan of redemption will see that they cannot be saved while in transgression of God's holy precepts. They must cease to transgress the law and lay hold on the promises of God that are available for us through the merits of Christ." FW 89

"While true faith trusts wholly in Christ for salvation, it will lead to perfect conformity to the law of God. Faith is manifested in works." FW 52

Amen

[Woody]

Yes. Those are good. I agree with them. Hey ... you know ... I think I have actually gone 30 seconds without sinning. Do I qualify?

[Guest]

Yes. Those are good. I agree with them. Hey ... you know ... I think I have actually gone 30 seconds without sinning. Do I qualify?

Yes you do. Now see if you can go 60 seconds.

[Guest]

It may take some prayer for the Holy Spirit to go 60