Life After Death???

[John317]

Would you care to parse and translate the original language and see just exactly what those verses are telling us? Explain how they should be translated and why?

You will find that they do not necessarily teach that disembodied spirits or souls are alive and conscious in hell. In the final analysis, they are no help in showing the immortality of the soul.

For instance, look how you have translated it: ".. made alive by the Spirit, by which also he went..."

Your translation would lead us to believe that it's speaking of the Holy Spirit which raised Jesus from the dead and by which the pre-incarnate Christ preached though Noah to those who were at that time in the prison-house of sin. (See Isaiah 61: 1)

It can be both grammatically and theologically understood in at least two different ways. For instance, the Ryrie Study Bible (NASB) says, "Most likely this is a reference to the preincarnate Christ's preaching through Noah to those who, because they rejected that message, are now spirits in prison."

[John317]

Quote:

Note: re ‘soul’

What do you mean by "destroy"?

The whole reason for the idea of an ever-burning hell is that God has to put immortal spirits someplace. If you take away the immortal spirit, you lose all the purpose of an endlessly burning hell.

Evidently even God cannot destroy an immortal soul. It just keeps burning and burning...

Usually "destroy" means "ending the existence of something," but in the case of the immortal soul, there is no ending its existence. Either because God cannot end it or because he chooses not to.

Many times the Bible says God will destroy unrepentant sinners. It says God will "destroy" both soul and body in hell. How does the dictionary define destroy?--

Quote:

destroy |diˈstroi|

verb [ trans. ]

put an end to the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it : the room had been destroyed by fire.

Question: When Matthew 10: 28 says God is "able to destroy both soul and body in hell," doesn't that mean that God is able to put an end to the existence of both soul and body? Or do you believe that God could indeed destroy both but instead He chooses to destroy only the body and keep the soul alive for the purpose of torturing it?

Given all of God's choices in constructing the universe, why would a loving, merciful, all-wise God plan it so that He would need to have an endless torture chamber for His intelligent creatures? And how can He torture people worse than the Nazis did, and yet punish the Nazis for doing exactly the same kind of thing-- only more humanely and for a much shorter duration-- that some people believe God will do?

And while this is going on, who in heaven could enjoy themselves-- while Aunt Matilda, Uncle Harry, good ol' grandpa, or little Sally, and billions of others just like them, are being fried without a second's respite by One who has the power to end their suffering at any given moment but who refuses to stop it?

Is this really the best way to run a universe?

[guibox]

Yes, it amazes me that people will take the words 'destroy', 'death', 'destruction', 'perish','consume' 'burnt up', 'consume away into smoke' and interpret those according to the assumption that man has an immortal soul, and turn them on their head by making them mean 'tormented eternally'.

Dr. R. F. Weymouth (1822-1902) who was the headmaster of Mill Hill School and a Greek scholar of his day, also the translator of New Testament in Modern Speech said this about that:

Quote:

"My mind fails to conceive a grosser misrepresentation of language than when five or six of the strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying to destroy or destruction, are explained to mean `maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence.' To translate black as white is nothing to this."

In his book in a note on 1.Corinthians 15:18 he says:

Quote:

"By `perish' the Apostle here apparently means `pass out of existence'."

On Hebrews 9:28 we read:

Quote:

"The use in the N.T. of such words as `death', `destruction', `fire', `perish', to describe Future Retribution, point to the likelihood of fearful anguish, followed by extinction of being, as the doom which awaits those who by persistent rejection of the Saviour prove themselves utterly, and therefore irremediably bad."

On Revelation 14:11:

Quote:

"There is nothing in this verse that necessarily implies an eternity of suffering. In a similar way the word `punishment' or `correction' in Matthew 25:46 gives itself no indication of time."

On Revelation 20:10:

Quote:

"The Lake of fire implying awful pain and complete, irremediable ruin and destruction."

Here is a non-SDA/non-JW scholar who sees from the research that the Greek words coincide with the concept of annihilation that permeates the entire scriptures, and doesn't mean the exact opposite as so many Christians try to make them mean.

[John317]

Terrific quotes from a fine Bible scholar and translator. I love his original translation (as opposed to edited versions of it). I see that you took his notes from his own edition of The New Testament In Modern Speech. Thanks for these.

[John317]

I find it funny how Calvinists emphasis so much the 'total depravity' of man that he cannot even choose to come to God without being drawn. Yet, they fully believe that man has an immortal soul that survives death....

What many don't realize is that if it hadn't been for John Calvin, the non-immortality of the soul would probably have become the accepted view among the Protestants. But unfortunately Calvin came out strongly in favor of the immortality of the soul and wrote against those who favored non-immortality. Martin Luther himself favored non-immortality and that is how it seemed to be going until Calvin changed it with his own statements on the subject. Calvin had once been a devout Catholic, having studied for the priesthood, and he never did manage to come all the way out from under the influence of Roman Catholicism.

[John317]

Answer: Once carnallity rules for the method of reading scripture by the Adventist. Who refuse to read the bible in it's overall context before reading scripture in its precise context. Rather, context is completely thrown out the window while the spend their life PROOF-TEXTING 1 VERSE AT A TIME WITH A TOTAL DISREGARD TO CONTEXT.

Humble, please give us a complete Bible study on the immortality of the soul. Tell us all the primary texts that you believe support this view.

[Gail]

I would add Humble's note to that, John- that of keeping to the context...

It seems to me that it's keeping to the context that makes the case for immortality of the soul even more precarious!

[jasd]

>>Would you care to parse and translate the original language and see just exactly what those verses are telling us? Explain how they should be translated and why?<<

It is unnecessary, John317, any Interlinear text will provide a workable translation. As far as parsing the passage, yes, it may need a bit of exegesis; however, it is rather moot if dogmatic predispositions are first factored into text. Example:

>>You will find that they do not necessarily teach that disembodied spirits or souls are alive and conscious in hell.<<

The qualifying “necessarily” aside, one might rather view “disembodied spirits or souls” as that unencumbered by the carnal, which said 'carnality' is seemingly - a remove from that which exemplifies Gd and angels – spirit beings. We would hardly suppose that we are more favored than either Gd or His angels, would we?

Per, “alive”: perhaps moreso than either you or me. Per, “conscious”: I believe that my forwarded ‘animate vitality’ is synonymous with conscious, is it not? Per “hell”: that would be, what exactly? – lake of fire, pit, outer darkness, “prison”, etc? St Peter explains that it thusly...,

there were spirits in a place of custody, a guarded place – at the time of the crucifixion. Jesus Christ, “quickened” aroused and/or invigorated by the spirit, visited those same spirits held in that “prison”, as it were – and “preached” to them.

It would have been very foolish for Jesus Christ to preach to ‘nothingness’ – would it not? Does one suppose Jesus Christ – foolish?

>>In the final analysis, they are no help in showing the immortality of the soul.<<

Umm, John317, once more, I do not say that the “soul” [per se] is immortal. Remember my following quote?

Quote:

Quote:jasd

There is no immortality of the soul - as long as there is one who can destroy it.

>>For instance, look how you have translated it: ".. made alive by the Spirit, by which also he went..."<<

Careful... It is others who have translated Holy Writ. Besides, you appear to select those translations, which tend to support dogmas that are most familiar to you. How about looking at a few alternative possibles...?

Strong’s Quicken: #2227 zoopoieo

1) to produce alive, begat or bear living young

2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate

to restore to life

c) to give increase of life: thus of physical life

d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life

3) metaph., of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing

YLT 1 Pet 3:18 because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit,

>>Your translation would lead us to believe that it's speaking of the Holy Spirit which raised Jesus from the dead and by which the pre-incarnate Christ preached though Noah to those who were at that time in the prison-house of sin. (See Isaiah 61: 1)<<

No, John317, notice how Young’s Literal translates it..., “in the spirit”; otherwise, no, not the “pre-incarnate Christ” – and no, not through Noah – and yes, Jesus Christ, whilst His body lay in the tomb – He (that animate vitality) visited those ante-diluvian spirits “in prison”.

>>It can be both grammatically and theologically understood in at least two different ways. For instance, the Ryrie Study Bible (NASB) says, "Most likely this is a reference to the preincarnate Christ's preaching through Noah to those who, because they rejected that message, are now spirits in prison."<<

Okay, a coupla things: though the NT does tell us that Noah was a preacher of righteousness, nowhere does Holy Writ even hint at the fact that the ante-diluvials received any preaching from anyone during the years Noah and his family built the Ark. It was Gd’s decision to destroy them – not preach to them. Secondly, so why, per phylake –

guard nothingness?

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:jasd

There is no immortality of the soul - as long as there is one who can destroy it.

>>What do you mean by "destroy"?<<

I suppose one must really ask Jesus Christ; however, given that Writ indicates in places that one definition of soul is the composite body together with its animate vitality, as well, the 'breath of Gd' – I may venture the thought that Jesus Christ was saying that though one may find it unfortunate that someone destroys your ‘tabernacle’ – more importantly, Jesus Christ was saying that there is greater to fear – that is, He who is able to destroy/eradicate the entirety of that which comprises the being...

>>The whole reason for the idea of an ever-burning hell is that God has to put immortal spirits someplace. If you take away the immortal spirit, you lose all the purpose of an endlessly burning hell.

Evidently even God cannot destroy an immortal soul. It just keeps burning and burning...<<

I understand Writ to say that the smoke of 'their' torment ascends forever... Ascends to where? to infinity? If so, then “forever” would apply. However, it remains that it is smoke that does so. (hasn't smoke been utilized as a metaphor for supplication/prayer?)

>>Usually "destroy" means "ending the existence of something,"<<

Usually, but not always.

>>...but in the case of the immortal soul, there is no ending its existence.<<

Do you believe that the “soul” will never be immortal? Anyway, what is it?

>>Either because God cannot end it or because he chooses not to.<<

“...but rather fear Him which is able to destroy...” “Able” or ‘will’?

>>Many times the Bible says God will destroy unrepentant sinners.<<

How many times did He destroy the COI? yet, His promises re them remain..., as do they. Evidently, 'destroy' has

more ellipticity than we would have it...

>>It says God will "destroy" both soul and body in hell. How does the dictionary define destroy?--

Will “destroy”? or can or is able to destroy both body and soul in hell?

>>Question: When Matthew 10: 28 says God is "able to destroy both soul and body in hell," doesn't that mean that God is able to put an end to the existence of both soul and body? Or do you believe that God could indeed destroy both but instead He chooses to destroy only the body and keep the soul alive for the purpose of torturing it?<<

Body and soul? Soul, which only Gd is able to destroy? What is its disposition interim, should He decide to ‘destroy’ it?

Thou shall by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing (?) – the prison referenced by St Peter?

>>Given all of God's choices in constructing the universe, why would a loving, merciful, all-wise God plan it so that He would need to have an endless torture chamber for His intelligent creatures?<<

If that is a legitimate question, why would Gd have any measure of “torture”? Note: EGW states the apart and sentient ‘self’ will experience pain (torture?) even when there is nothing left of the carnal that could conceivably sustain awareness.

>>And how can He torture people worse than the Nazis did, and yet punish the Nazis for doing exactly the same kind of thing-- only more humanely and for a much shorter duration-- that some people believe God will do?<<

Umm, like, if we believed that Gd’s hand is short that it cannot save – then we might suppose this and that re Gd’s "torture chamber". As for me, I’m inclined to think that Gd’s hand is not a short hand – and that He is a good ‘custodian’.

>>And while this is going on, who in heaven could enjoy themselves-- while Aunt Matilda, Uncle Harry, good ol' grandpa, or little Sally, and billions of others just like them, are being fried without a second's respite by One who has the power to end their suffering at any given moment but who refuses to stop it?<<

I’m afraid you’ll have to concern yourself about that, as – I haven’t an Aunt Matilda, Uncle Harry, or little Sally. My grandpa is alreay in fields of glory!

As for the billions, Jesus Christ preached to many of them whilst His body/tabernacle lay in the tomb; given that – well, I suppose

He ain not the kind of Big Brother who indulges in the sort of unnatural pursuits envisioned by our studied .orgs.

>>Is this really the best way to run a universe?<<

Perhaps, there are some whats got it right, and there is only the temporary – Purgatory, yes?

[John317]

Quote:

Careful... It is others who have translated Holy Writ. Besides, you appear to select those translations, which tend to support dogmas that are most familiar to you. How about looking at a few alternative possibles...?

You misunderstand me. I am saying look at the translation you quoted. It is the translation you chose to quote.

>>Your translation would lead us to believe that it's speaking of the Holy Spirit which raised Jesus from the dead and by which the pre-incarnate Christ preached though Noah to those who were at that time in the prison-house of sin. (See Isaiah 61: 1)<<

Quote:

No, John317, notice how Young’s Literal translates it..., “in the spirit”; otherwise, no, not the “pre-incarnate Christ” – and no, not through Noah – and yes, Jesus Christ, whilst His body lay in the tomb – He (that animate vitality) visited those ante-diluvian spirits “in prison”.

[/quote']

Again, you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I know very well that the Greek preposition en can be translated either as "by" or "in," or even as "through."

I am saying look at the translation you chose to quote, the KJV. Look at what it is saying.

It is actually perfectly legitimate to translate it either way. Take a look also at the way the New International Version translates it. It says, "by the Spirit, through whom." That is very similar to the KJV and NKJV, the last of which has, "by the Spirit, by whom." That is also a legitimate translation.

[John317]

EGW states the apart and sentient ‘self’ will experience pain (torture?) even when there is nothing left of the carnal that could conceivably sustain awareness.

Where does Ellen White state it the way you have given it above?

Quote:

Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished "according to their deeds." The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit. His punishment is to be far greater than that of those whom he has deceived. After all have perished who fell by his deceptions, he is still to live and suffer on. In the cleansing flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch--Satan the root, his followers the branches. The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and heaven and earth, beholding, declare the righteousness of Jehovah. GC 673

There is no indication here that people suffer after their body is destroyed. All are finally completely destroyed and cease to suffer. Some suffer longer than others "according to their deeds." Satan is to suffer longest. But the point is that there is no evidence here of the soul being immortal or that people will continue to suffer after their body no longer exists.

[John317]

Okay, a coupla things: though the NT does tell us that Noah was a preacher of righteousness, nowhere does Holy Writ even hint at the fact that the ante-diluvials received any preaching from anyone during the years Noah and his family built the Ark. It was Gd’s decision to destroy them – not preach to them. Secondly, so why, per phylake –

Noah preached to the people about "present truth" in his day, which was to get into the ark. The Bible calls Noah a preacher of righteousness because he preached righteousness.

God sent a warning message to the antediluvians. See Patriarchs and Prophets:

Quote:

"By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith." Hebrews 11:7. While Noah was giving his warning message to the world, his works testified of his sincerity. It was thus that his faith was perfected and made evident. He gave the world an example of believing just what God says. All that he possessed, he invested in the ark. As he began to construct that immense boat on dry ground, multitudes came from every direction to see the strange sight and to hear the earnest, fervent words of the singular preacher. Every blow struck upon the ark was a witness to the people.

Many at first appeared to receive the warning; yet they did not turn to God with true repentance. They were unwilling to renounce their sins. During the time that elapsed before the coming of the Flood, their faith was tested, and they failed to endure the trial. Overcome by the prevailing unbelief, they finally joined their former associates in rejecting the solemn message. Some were deeply convicted, and would have heeded the words of warning; but there were so many to jest and ridicule, that they partook of the same spirit, resisted the invitations of mercy, and were soon among the boldest and most defiant scoffers; for none are so reckless and go to such lengths in sin as do those who have once had light, but have resisted the convicting Spirit of God.

The men of that generation were not all, in the fullest acceptation of the term, idolaters. Many professed to be worshipers of God. They claimed that their idols were representations of the Deity, and that through them the people could obtain a clearer conception of the divine Being. This class were foremost in rejecting the preaching of Noah. As they endeavored to represent God by material objects, their minds were blinded to His majesty and power; they ceased to realize the holiness of His character, or the sacred, unchanging nature of His requirements. As sin became general, it appeared less and less sinful, and they finally declared that the divine law was no longer in force; that it was contrary to the character of God to punish transgression; and they denied that His judgments were to be visited upon the earth. Had the men of that generation obeyed the divine law, they would have recognized the voice of God in the warning of His servant; but their minds had become so blinded by rejection of light that they really believed Noah's message to be a delusion.

It was not multitudes or majorities that were on the side of right. The world was arrayed against God's justice and His laws, and Noah was regarded as a fanatic. Satan, when tempting Eve to disobey God, said to her, "Ye shall not surely die." Genesis 3:4. Great men, worldly, honored, and wise men, repeated the same. "The threatenings of God," they said, "are for the purpose of intimidating, and will never be verified. You need not be alarmed. Such an event as the destruction of the world by the God who made it, and the punishment of the beings He has created, will never take place. Be at peace; fear not. Noah is a wild fanatic." The world made merry at the folly of the deluded old man. Instead of humbling the heart before God, they continued their disobedience and wickedness, the same as though God had not spoken to them through His servant.

But Noah stood like a rock amid the tempest. Surrounded by popular contempt and ridicule, he distinguished himself by his holy integrity and unwavering faithfulness. A power attended his words, for it was the voice of God to man through His servant. Connection with God made him strong in the strength of infinite power, while for one hundred and twenty years his solemn voice fell upon the ears of that generation in regard to events, which, so far as human wisdom could judge, were impossible. PP 95-96

Ellen White claimed that God showed her these things in vision. I believe her.

[True-believer]

I've been called a heretic because I don't believe in life straight after death either in heaven or hell but instead we're waiting Hebrews 9:28 says---eagerly waiting for Him... so since I believe the Bible about at death we sleep my friends in the baptist church are calling me a heretic--not all of them--but a couple are---why would that be??? I am only believing the Truth.

[John317]

It's a sad truth that many times those who only believe & teach what the Bible says are called "heretics." I'm in favor of using the label "heretic" a lot less often. I see it used 'way too much, I'm afraid. We need to let God work on people's minds and hearts and forget about calling people names simply because they disagree with the way we understand the Bible.

Your verse, Hebrews 9: 28 is a good one, showing that we're to wait for Christ to return. It shows clearly that we don't go directly to heaven after death but we will have to wait for Him to return, just like He promised in John 14: 3, 4. (My parents and grandparents are waiting in their graves for Him. I realize I may have to join them there, but if that is God's plan, it is fine with me. We're not conscious of the passage of time, so the next thing after closing my eyes in death, I will wake up to find that He is coming in the sky for His people who have waited for Him.)

You might want to put those verses alongside of Hebrews 11: 40. This is another verse that plainly teaches that people do not go immediately to their eternal rewards. It teaches that we will all "be made perfect" together. In other words, all the righteous will receive their eternal rewards at the same time. This is also the same teaching in 1 Thess. 4: 9-18.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: jasd

EGW states the apart and sentient ‘self’ will experience pain (torture?) even when there is nothing left of the carnal that could conceivably sustain awareness.

Where does Ellen White state it the way you have given it above?

Quote:

Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished "according to their deeds." The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit. His punishment is to be far greater than that of those whom he has deceived. After all have perished who fell by his deceptions, he is still to live and suffer on. In the cleansing flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch--Satan the root, his followers the branches. The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and heaven and earth, beholding, declare the righteousness of Jehovah. GC 673

There is no indication here that people suffer after their body is destroyed. All are finally completely destroyed and cease to suffer. Some suffer longer than others "according to their deeds." Satan is to suffer longest. But the point is that there is no evidence here of the soul being immortal or that people will continue to suffer after their body no longer exists.

EW 294: I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained.

[melvin mccarty]

Ahhh yes! The SDA version of hellfire. Artificially kept alive to suffer for many days. Sadistic!....mel

[Robert]

Ahhh yes! The SDA version of hellfire. Artificially kept alive to suffer for many days. Sadistic!....mel

True dat! (as the new generation says). How can anyone serve a god like that? I mean come on folks, EGW is not the end all, be all, of truth. Statements like this proves that she had limited light.

Rob

[Woody]

In with the Good.

Out with the bad.

[Robert]

True dat....

[guibox]

Here is a logical progression.

1) Man doesn't have inherent immortality. It is a gift from God given for the righteous.

2) When man sinned, he died spiritually and will die physically

3) For those who believe in Christ, they have eternal life (whether you believe it is received now or later)

4) The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23) but the gift of God is eternal life (the opposite of death)

5) Because the wicked have sinned and are not made alive spiritually because they have not accepted the immortality, the eternal life promised to the righteous, and because they are not inherently immortal

THEIR SOULS AND/OR BODIES CANNOT BE TORMENTED FOR ETERNITY.

'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER WOULD BELIEVE ON HIM, should not perish BUT have everlasting life'

Life, immortality, eternal life, is a gift for only the righteous and is CONTRASTED with 'death', 'perish' and 'destruction' which is the punishment for the wicked.

'He who hath the Son hath life, but he who hath not the Son, hath not life'

So even if I believed my soul went to heaven at death because I am righteous, the same CANNOT be said for the wicked for they are still under the wages of sin which is death and do NOT have eternal life in any form.

The Bible does not say, 'The wages of sin is eternal life in hell, but the gift of God is eternal life.'

[Robert]

Here is a logical progression.

1) Man doesn't have inherent immortality. It is a gift from God given for the righteous.

[John317]

Quote:

Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished "according to their deeds." The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit. His punishment is to be far greater than that of those whom he has deceived. After all have perished who fell by his deceptions, he is still to live and suffer on. In the cleansing flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch--Satan the root, his followers the branches. The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and heaven and earth, beholding, declare the righteousness of Jehovah. GC 673

There is no indication here that people suffer after their body is destroyed. All are finally completely destroyed and cease to suffer. Some suffer longer than others "according to their deeds." Satan is to suffer longest. But the point is that there is no evidence here of the soul being immortal or that people will continue to suffer after their body no longer exists.

Quote:

EW 294: I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. EW 294

If you compare your description of what you claimed Ellen White says, you will find that Ellen White does not say what you claim. Here is your description:

Quote:

Note: EGW states the apart and sentient ‘self’ will experience pain (torture?) even when there is nothing left of the carnal that could conceivably sustain awareness.

Mrs. White continues,

Quote:

Said the angel, 'The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon.'

Satan and his angels suffered long. Satan bore not only the weight and punishment of his own sins, but also of the sins of the redeemed host, which had been placed upon him; and he must also suffer for the ruin of souls which he had caused. Then I saw that Satan and all the wicked host were consumed, and the justice of God was satisfied; and all the angelic host, and all the redeemed saints, with a loud voice said, "Amen!" Early Writings (1882), page 294

[John317]

In with the Good.

Out with the bad.

What part do you decide is good and what part "bad" here, and on what basis?

Quote:

I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. Said the angel, 'The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon.'

Satan and his angels suffered long. Satan bore not only the weight and punishment of his own sins, but also of the sins of the redeemed host, which had been placed upon him; and he must also suffer for the ruin of souls which he had caused. Then I saw that Satan and all the wicked host were consumed, and the justice of God was satisfied; and all the angelic host, and all the redeemed saints, with a loud voice said, "Amen!" Early Writings (1882), page 294

[Shekinah]

clearly what is going on here is the lake of fire as satan will be tormented eternally.Along with all that are that are thrown in ther as in 1 Corinthians 9-11 Rev 20:14,15 this after the second resurection.We will be with Christ by then.

[melvin mccarty]

it's all bad and more than that it is ridiculous......mel