LifeHiscost Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Quote: We are saved by works. Just not our works. "...for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. "Philippians 2:13 NKJV Regards! Then God is working through you perfectly? "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."1 John 2:5 KJV "If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us." 1John 4:12 KJV Blessings! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Dr. Rich Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 How come Jesus never said anything about His grace saving anyone? If grace is all we need, then how come Jesus has not come already? Where is there any grace in Matthew 25's Ten Virgin prophecy? Where is grace in Revelation? How come no one wants to answer these questions? Quote
Planey Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 I believe in Sola Scriptura. There is no point in conversing with someone who does not believe in half of the New Testament (namely Hebrews and Paul's letters). Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Dr. Rich Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 And pray tell--what is wrong with the Testimoney of Jesus? Isn't this what those in Rev. 12:17 have? Quote
LifeHiscost Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Good works come as a result of the indwelling of the Spirit of God. It is a natural result of a person who has experienced the new birth. Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators John317 Posted March 28, 2009 Moderators Posted March 28, 2009 And pray tell--what is wrong with the Testimoney of Jesus? Isn't this what those in Rev. 12:17 have? Are there others at the Calimesa church that believe as you do about Paul and the book of Hebrews? Do you teach at that church what you are saying here? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
LifeHiscost Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Where is grace in Revelation? " And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death." Rev 12:11 Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Members phkrause Posted March 28, 2009 Members Posted March 28, 2009 and pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Robert Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert No worries...mate! I didn't know you were an Aussie, Rob! Graeme Wannabe Quote
Robert Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 "If we [agape] one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us." 1 John 4:12 KJV Do you possess that love which seeketh not her own wealth, but another's or is there still self-seeking in your life? My Bible (which isn't paraphrased) tells me we are failing to live that life and therefore our only hope is JBF. Note, in your quote above, it begins with "IF". Quote
Woody Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Yes Rob. Good Point. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
olger Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 I rather like this quote by a cousin of mine “To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.” See if you can guess the author. og Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Moderators Gerr Posted March 29, 2009 Moderators Posted March 29, 2009 Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost "If we [agape] one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us." 1 John 4:12 KJV Do you possess that love which seeketh not her own wealth, but another's or is there still self-seeking in your life? My Bible (which isn't paraphrased) tells me we are failing to live that life and therefore our only hope is JBF. Note, in your quote above, it begins with "IF". Oh well, per your definition since NOBODY has that "love which seeketh not her own wealth" etc, that means God does NOT dwell in any one? Quote
Woody Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 In a moment in the twinkling of an eye ... We will then ... no longer be corrupt individuals ... but filled with the Love of God. When we SEE Him ... Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Robert Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert Do you possess that love which seeketh not her own wealth, but another's or is there still self-seeking in your life? My Bible (which isn't paraphrased) tells me we are failing to live that life and therefore our only hope is JBF. Note, in your quote above, it begins with "IF". [/quote'] Oh well, per your definition since NOBODY has that "love which seeketh not her own wealth" etc, that means God does NOT dwell in any one? No, it means God's love is not perfected in us. It means you and I fall short and hence our only hope is the imputed righteousness of Christ. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 This is very true LHC. But as far as you and I are concerned Grace is neither cheap nor expensive - it is FREE!!!!! The wonderful thing is that Grace is offered freely to us as Christ's enemies - we have done nothing to deserve it. All we can do is accept it. Surely that means that Grace is cheap. Graeme PS If somebody gives you a present of a brand new Lamborghini Gallardo then that is a cheap car - for you. However your friend had to pay the full price for it. TU Point well taken. Quote Lift Jesus up!!
BobRyan Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 And pray tell--what is wrong with the Testimoney of Jesus? Isn't this what those in Rev. 12:17 have? 1. Is this the "Jesus is not God so the Bible is not authored by Him - just the RED LETTERS" snippet bible model that we are getting here? 2. Is it the Muslims-don't-like-Paul solution? What is this??? in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
BobRyan Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 We do have the blessed assurance that we are once-saved, always saved in Jesus Christ--forever and ever!!! 1 John 5:13 says... These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. It would have been much easier to spin that text the direction you are going IF it had been the ONLY text in the Bible. I will grant you that. But as it is... we have 66 books. Hence the problem with your statement. Matt 18 "Forgiveness REVOKED" John 15:1-8 "Branches IN ME removed" and thrown into the fire. Gal 5:4 "You have been SERVERED FROM Christ, you have FALLEN FROM grace" Rom 11 "you TOO should FEAR for you STAND only by your faith and if He did not spare them NEITHER will He spare you... but He is able to GRAFT THEM IN AGAIN IF they do not continue in unbelief" For added reading -- there is always ALL of Ezek 18. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Woody Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 Originally Posted By: True-believer We do have the blessed assurance that we are once-saved, always saved in Jesus Christ--forever and ever!!! 1 John 5:13 says... These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. It would have been much easier to spin that text the direction you are going IF it had been the ONLY text in the Bible. I will grant you that. But as it is... we have 66 books. Hence the problem with your statement. Matt 18 "Forgiveness REVOKED" John 15:1-8 "Branches IN ME removed" and thrown into the fire. Gal 5:4 "You have been SERVERED FROM Christ, you have FALLEN FROM grace" Rom 11 "you TOO should FEAR for you STAND only by your faith and if He did not spare them NEITHER will He spare you... but He is able to GRAFT THEM IN AGAIN IF they do not continue in unbelief" For added reading -- there is always ALL of Ezek 18. in Christ, Bob This is what I hate about quoting the Bible. It gets abusive to God. One person quotes the Bible ... the next person says ... I will raise you five more that speak the Truth. Another says oh no. I will give you ten more. And it goes on and on. What matters is ... The Holy Spirit speaking to you personally. What doesn't matter is how many proof texts you can add to the conversation. Bottom line is ... How do you see the entire message of the Bible ... not one text here and one there. Bible and EGW quotes are only valued in the light of how we view God. We are lead at different paces and in different ways. Each stage we are at is perfect. The legalists are perfect at their step. The most infantile though it may be. And then we grow from there. If and when an issue is important for an individual ... the Holy Spirit will make the move and empower the person to see and grow. Just my two cents worth. Just let me say that there is more than one way that the Holy SPirit leads. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Administrators Gail Posted March 29, 2009 Administrators Posted March 29, 2009 Quote: What matters is ... The Holy Spirit speaking to you personally. and: Quote: If and when an issue is important for an individual ... the Holy Spirit will make the move and empower the person to see and grow. I like this! I had some similar thoughts. People, how has this experience, that of grace, been yours? What has the Spirit told you personally as the Lord journeys with you through YOUR life? Earlier today in one of the Bible Scripture fora I posted Solomon's plea- "Give me an understanding (hearing) heart" This means that to understand, what you learn and read through God's word becomes assimilated and real to you. I'd love to hear people speak more of God's power in their own lives! A picture is worth a thousand words. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Moderators Gerr Posted March 29, 2009 Moderators Posted March 29, 2009 Originally Posted By: BobRyan It would have been much easier to spin that text the direction you are going IF it had been the ONLY text in the Bible. I will grant you that. But as it is... we have 66 books. Hence the problem with your statement. Matt 18 "Forgiveness REVOKED" John 15:1-8 "Branches IN ME removed" and thrown into the fire. Gal 5:4 "You have been SERVERED FROM Christ, you have FALLEN FROM grace" Rom 11 "you TOO should FEAR for you STAND only by your faith and if He did not spare them NEITHER will He spare you... but He is able to GRAFT THEM IN AGAIN IF they do not continue in unbelief" For added reading -- there is always ALL of Ezek 18. in Christ, Bob This is what I hate about quoting the Bible. It gets abusive to God. One person quotes the Bible ... the next person says ... I will raise you five more that speak the Truth. Another says oh no. I will give you ten more. And it goes on and on. What matters is ... The Holy Spirit speaking to you personally.[/quote'] I may be put at the tail end of the class, but sorry, what you are saying IS VERY dangerous, IMHO!!! We are to test the spirits by the Word, not the other way around!!!!!!!!!!!!! "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." 1 Jn 4:1 NIV. The Holy Spirit is given to illuminate the Word and lead us into truth. Yes!!!. But the Holy Spirit will NEVER contradict the Word! ONLY spirits from the abyss will contradict the Word! I have encountered Primitive Baptists many years ago while canvassing during my college summer breaks. They would claim they didn't the books I was selling because they got their information personally directly from the Holy Spirit! Quote: What doesn't matter is how many proof texts you can add to the conversation. Bottom line is ... How do you see the entire message of the Bible ... not one text here and one there. Bible and EGW quotes are only valued in the light of how we view God. We are lead at different paces and in different ways. Each stage we are at is perfect. The legalists are perfect at their step. The most infantile though it may be. And then we grow from there. If and when an issue is important for an individual ... the Holy Spirit will make the move and empower the person to see and grow. Just my two cents worth. Just let me say that there is more than one way that the Holy SPirit leads. The problem as I see it is that too many do not take what the Bible plainly says. They try to explain away the plain sense of what a passage is saying because it contradicts their preconceived notion. For example, take Ez 18:21-24 which says: 21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? 24 But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die. The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Eze 18:21-24). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society. I see no room for the notion of "once saved always saved." When a sinner turns to God he is forgiven and saved. When a saved person turns away from God, he is lost! Plain and simple! Look, if you want me to believe what you are teaching, all you need to do is show it from Scripture. Quote
Woody Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 I have never met the Christians that you describe Gerry. I keep hearing about them from others. But personally I have never met them. I find that most Christians are sincere and just interpret scripture differently than you might. You say that scripture 'plainly' says something. But, I don't think it is all that plain. Great minds can differ. We learn in stages. The Holy Spirit has much better knowledge about what someone should believe and when ... than either you or I. You say: "The problem as I see it is that too many do not take what the Bible plainly says." Well ... if one is to try to sit in judgment ... I could say this about you from the posts I have read of yours. But, while I could say that ... I do think that would be wrong to say. Just as the people you speak of ... I think that you and they are honest in attempting to know God's word. It is Okay to have different understanding of scripture. The Lord in His wisdom may find it necessary to test some one or to give them knowledge of a doctrine ... but only when we get to Heaven will we have a full knowledge of Truth. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted March 29, 2009 Members Posted March 29, 2009 I always thought that "once saved, always saved" was a Baptist concept. That's what my Baptist friends always kept telling me....that no matter what I did after I accepted Jesus as my Savior, that I was saved. That doesn't sound *right* to me. If I turn away from God and do something contrary to what He would want me to do, then where is the accountability? I would think I need to repent and ask for forgiveness. But then, I also think that God looks on the heart - on the trail that we are on. If I am on the trail that leads to God, then I think He takes that into account, especially if I screw up, but for some reason, I might die without being able to ask for forgiveness. It would have been in my heart to ask for forgiveness, and I think God knows that. (Am I making myself clear as mud here?) Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Members phkrause Posted March 29, 2009 Members Posted March 29, 2009 I would agree with you rudy on your first statement, and definitely agree with your 2nd statement. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Woody Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 Very Clear Pam. Good points. God gives us freedom of choice and if we don't want Jesus then He will not force us. The Title "The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan" is appropriate here. We have two choices ... Christ or Satan. And we have the freedom to decide. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.