We are onced-saved, always saved!!!

[BobRyan]

When debunking Calvinism's OSAS -- I always find these texts helpful.

Quote:

II Pet 2:20-22, "For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire."

Question:

HOW can it be WORSE? Worse to live with Christ forever than burn in hell??

---------------------------------------------------

Certainly at the point of salvation those who are lost are joined to Christ -- they are for the first time "in Him" they are "In Christ". But do they stay there? Do they choose to ABIDE in that condition or do they "lose their first love" and fall away?

Quote:

John 15

1 ""I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.

2 ""Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

3 "" You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

4 "" Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.

5 ""I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

6 ""If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.[/b]

Warning regarding the Need to remain faithful – OR it could be construed as God simply reminding himself that He needs to make us persevere in remaining faithful if He wants to save us.

Fallen and yet hoping to be “grafted BACK in again” into the vine of Christ!

Quote:

Rom 11

18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.

19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”

20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;

21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either

22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

Warnging about Forgiveness revoked – OR God reminding himself that He needs to remember to make us “forgiving” if He wants us saved.

Quote:

Matt 18 <Forgiveness Revoked!>

29 ""So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, "Have patience with me and I will repay you.'

30 ""But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.

31 ""So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.

32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.

33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'

34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.

35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.''

TRUE statement about those who ARE in Christ and joined to Christ – being SEVERED from Christ – or it could be construed as God reminding Himself that this is something that can never happen?

Severed FROM Christ and Fallen from grace

Quote:

Gal 5

4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.[/b]

5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?

--------------------------------------

Peace with God replaced by a certain terrifying expectation of judgment to come

Quote:

Heb 10

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Quote:

1Timothy 3:1-6

2An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

3not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.

4He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity

5(but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),

6and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Quote:

sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ’s character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned." CSA 30

"sinful as your life may have been"

Interesting way of putting it. Appears to suggest it may have been but is not at present.

Thoughts?

Regards!

It's the judgment scene. It is referring to your entire LIFE of sin.

[Woody]

Quote:

SO you are banking on becoming just like Christ...sinless...perfect, etc? When is this going to happen, just before you die? This damnable heresy on the perfection of the flesh needs to rooted out from Adventism for it is a lie. Even EGW says that as long as life shall last there will be no point where we can claim perfection.

Well said. I wish this didn't have to be said ... but it does.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Robert

But you were WASHED, you were SANCTIFIED, you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

Everything we experience as believers is already true of us "in Christ"! E.G., take sanctification:

John 15:3 You are already clean [you are already sanctified in Me] because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Now remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine.

1 Cor 1:30 But of Him [God the Father] you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God--and justification and sanctification and redemption-- 31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."

"In Christ" you already stand sanctified! This doesn't mean that there's no growth in the life of the believer for the Bible states, "Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord."

So while we stand perfectly sanctified "in Christ" if our faith is real we will experience growth, if not you need to question your faith.

Here's another one:

Hebrews 10:7 Then I [Jesus] said, 'Behold, I have come (In the scroll of the book it is written of me) To do your will, God.'" 8 Saying above, "Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin you didn't desire, neither had pleasure in them" (those which are offered according to the law), 9 then has he said, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He takes away the first, that he may establish the second, 10 by which will we have been sanctified [how, through our experience? No,] through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Every priest indeed stands day by day ministering and often offering the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins, 12 but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 henceforth expecting until his enemies to be made the footstool of his feet. 14 For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are sanctified. 15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us, for after he has said, 16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them: 'After those days,' says the Lord, 'I will put my laws on their heart, I will also write them on their mind;'" then, 17 "I will remember their sins and their iniquities no more."

Note, first we stand "sanctified in Christ" then we experience "I will put my laws on their heart" (which is harmony with the last 6 commandments of the law).

Now maybe you can get some much needed rest, Gerry. Chill...you are accepted "in Christ". Now remain "in Him" and you'll grow real fruit....Self-righteous fruit will condemn the believer in the judgment!

Good Points Rob. If only we really understood being sanctified. For we ARE sanctified. I've posted many quotes on this subject and will not bother with them again. But if one searches it is clear what you are saying is true.

[phkrause]

Just a thought and to nobody in general. I have a problem with "once saved always saved", without coming to the Lord each morning and asking for him to guide us through the day, and than before retiring for the day, asking the Lord to forgive us for the wrongs that we have done during the day. If this is really the case, than why have 2 resurrections and a judgment at the end of time? Why are we still here? What than is the need for the gospel to be heard by all? If we are saved without having to choose Christ each day, than this makes no sense to me whatsoever!

pk

[Gerr]

Quote:

Quote:

God would be the laughingstock in His universe if He made such a claim while the sinner is still wallowing in the cesspool, filthy and stinky

.

Last time that I checked you were coming up short compared to Christ's life of selflessness....Straw man, Gerry...straw man!

Quote:

That's why the Gospel is not just some make-believe pronouncement to the universe that we are sinless; He actually puts in motion the process called sanctification to make us so.

SO you are banking on becoming just like Christ...sinless...perfect, etc? When is this going to happen, just before you die? This damnable heresy on the perfection of the flesh needs to rooted out from Adventism for it is a lie. Even EGW says that as long as life shall last there will be no point where we can claim perfection. So why don't you preach your heresies to the pope. He might agree with you.

For the kind of absolute sinless perfection that you are talking about, then I would have to agree with you. But SHOW ONE quote where ANYONE has claimed to have achieved or will achieve the kind of absolute sinless perfection that you are claiming someone is teaching. SHOW IT! I have repeatedly said that is NOT possible in this life!!!

Quote:

Quote:

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you [i.e., in your former life before you believed]. But you were WASHED, you were SANCTIFIED, you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

If you read the context, carefully, you will come to realize that these believers were "practicing" the sin of swindling. Were they considered "unrighteous"? No! Why not? Read the context:

"But you were WASHED, you were SANCTIFIED [past tense], you were JUSTIFIED"

Show where the true believers continued to PRACTICE swindling!!! How would a swindling, fornicating, murdering believer be different from an unbeliever? Just because he claims to be "in Christ?" "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven," Mt 7:21 ESV.

Read the verse again. Paul said, "Such WERE some of you," i.e. some were sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, drunkards and swindlers! "WERE some of you," tells me that kind of life was in the PAST! "And by this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. Whoever says 'I know Him, but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps His word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. BY THIS WE MAY BE SURE THAT WE ARE IN HIM: whoever says he abides in Him ought to walk in the same way in which He walked." 1 Jn 2:3-6 ESV

Anyone can claim they know Jesus or that they are "in Christ." The Apostle John plainly says the proof of the knowing is in the living.

Quote:

It doesn't say you are being sanctified (which is the work of a lifetime), it says you "were (past tense) sanctified"! So again, it's not referring to your experience, but rather what is true of you "in Christ".

These believers were sinning, but Paul didn't consider them "unrighteous" because of their position "in Christ". Yes, they needed to grow, but the fact is "in Christ" they stand perfect. Sorry you can't understand such....

Sanctification is a past and present experience. Heb 10:14 "For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." That's present tense. When a sinner comes to Christ, he is forgiven. By virtue of Christ's perfect life placed in his account, he is pronounced righteous and holy. Is that it? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. His walk has just begun!!! The mind has made a 180 degree NOT 360 degree turn, but because of a lifetime of habits, the process of shedding those evil habits will continue as long as life shall last. As long as he is abiding in Christ, as long as he is walking as He walked, he is ALWAYS accounted as perfect. But the Bible clearly tells me that it is possible to stop willfully/deliberately sinning right here and now.

To claim that a truly converted believer continues to practice sinning is to not understand the power of the gospel.

[Gerr]

Although I am in perfect agreement with the foregoing quote, I did not find it in the reference given. Here is what I found in SD p. 41 instead: " Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Rom. 7:12 {SD 40.1}

As the Supreme Ruler of the universe, God has ordained laws for the government not only of all living beings, but of all the operations of nature. Everything, whether great or small, animate or inanimate, is under fixed laws which cannot be disregarded. There are no exceptions to this rule; for nothing that the divine hand has made has been forgotten by the divine mind.... To man alone, the crowning work of His creation, God has given a conscience to realize the sacred claims of the divine law, and a heart capable of loving it as holy, just, and good; and of man prompt and perfect obedience is required. {SD 40.2}

This rule forbids all oppression from parents and all disobedience from children. The Lord is full of lovingkindness, mercy, and truth. His law is holy, just, and good, and must be obeyed by parents and children. The rules which should regulate the lives of parents and children flow from a heart of infinite love, and God's rich blessing will rest upon those parents who administer His law in their homes, and upon the children who obey this law. The combined influence of mercy and justice is to be felt. "Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other." Households under this discipline will walk in the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment. {SD 40.3}

Let the youth look upon the divine standard, and never be content with a low aim.... Walk not hesitatingly, but firmly in the strength and grace of Jesus Christ. Unto Him is committed all power in heaven and in earth. Take refuge in Jesus Christ, and enter into a firm covenant with Him in faith, to love and serve Him. {SD 40.4}

Since the law of God is "holy, and just, and good," a transcript of the divine perfection, it follows that a character formed by obedience to that law will be holy. Christ is the perfect example of such a character.

[Gerr]

Quote:

"It is God's design to restore that similitude by giving to man victory over sin and over every temptation. The restoration will be completed at the second coming." 7BC 649

I am also in complete agreement with this. I have been steadfastly proclaiming that, yes, the believer can have victory over sin and over every temption here & now. That's what the Apostle John teaches in 1 Jn 3 & 5. But our complete transformation/restoration will not be completed until we shed our mortal body and be transformed into the likeness of His resurrected body at His Second Coming.

Quote:

"Perfection now is ours only in Christ, but the ultimate, all-comprehensive transformation of our lives into the image of God will take place at the Second Advent ...

Neither Christlike character traits nor faultess behaviour is the ground of our acceptance with God. Saving righteourness comes from the one righteous Man Jesus and is conveyed to us by the Holy Spirit. We can contribute nothing to Christ's gift of righteousness - we can only receive it. No one other than Christ is righteous; independent human righteousness is only filthy rags. " Seventh-Day Adventists Believe p. 145-6

Again, I am in total agreement with this. How come when I say the same thing in different words, you make it sound like I am working my way to heaven? I have never claimed perfection apart from Christ. NEVER!!! I have NEVER made any statement in this forum claiming that what I do somehow contributes one iota of merit to my salvation! However, I have also repeatedly maintained that receiving the righteousness of Christ also means translating that righteousness into our own righteous living by His grace!

May I point out something you overlooked when you placed in bold "human righteousness is only filthy rags"? You completely overlooked the word "INDEPENDENT" just before it!!! INDEPENDENT human righteousness, I would agree 1000%, is no better than filthy rags! But God's works in the believer? NEVER!!! Because God's work in the believer is none other than the life of Christ being reproduced in him!!!

[Gerr]

Quote:

"If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ’s character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned." CSA 30

I have the disc that supposedly contains all of EGW's writings, but I can't find your reference. However I did find the quote in SC, which I will quote with a few paragraphs before and after your quote so as to put it in proper persfective.

"That so-called faith in Christ which professes to release men from the obligation of obedience to God, is not faith, but presumption. "By grace are ye saved through faith." But "faith, if it hath not works, is dead." Ephesians 2:8; James 2:17. Jesus said of Himself before He came to earth, "I delight to do Thy will, O My God: yea, Thy law is within My heart." Psalm 40:8. And just before He ascended again to heaven He declared, "I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love." John 15:10. The Scripture says, "Hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. . . . He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk even as He walked." 1 John 2:3-6. "Because Christ also

62

suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow His steps." 1 Peter 2:21. {SC 61.2}

The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been,--just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents,--perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness. If eternal life were granted on any condition short of this, then the happiness of the whole universe would be imperiled. The way would be open for sin, with all its train of woe and misery, to be immortalized. {SC 62.1}

It was possible for Adam, before the fall, to form a righteous character by obedience to God's law. But he failed to do this, and because of his sin our natures are fallen and we cannot make ourselves righteous. Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness. If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned. {SC 62.2}

More than this, Christ changes the heart. He abides in your heart by faith. You are to maintain this connection with Christ by faith and the continual surrender of your will to Him; and so long as you do this, He will work in you to will and to do

63

according to His good pleasure. So you may say, "The life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20. So Jesus said to His disciples, "It is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you." Matthew 10:20. Then with Christ working in you, you will manifest the same spirit and do the same good works --works of righteousness, obedience. {SC 62.3}

So we have nothing in ourselves of which to boast. We have no ground for self-exaltation. Our only ground of hope is in the righteousness of Christ imputed to us, and in that wrought by His Spirit working in and through us. {SC 63.1}

When we speak of faith, there is a distinction that should be borne in mind. There is a kind of belief that is wholly distinct from faith. The existence and power of God, the truth of His word, are facts that even Satan and his hosts cannot at heart deny. The Bible says that "the devils also believe, and tremble;" but this is not faith. James 2:19. Where there is not only a belief in God's word, but a submission of the will to Him; where the heart is yielded to Him, the affections fixed upon Him, there is faith--faith that works by love and purifies the soul. Through this faith the heart is renewed in the image of God. And the heart that in its unrenewed state is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be, now delights in its holy precepts, exclaiming with the psalmist, "O how love I Thy law! it is my meditation all the day." Psalm 119:97. And the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us, "who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit," Rom 8:1. SC 63-65.

Although our obedience is never the ground/basis for salvation, she completely refutes the kind of faith that releases men from obedience.

[Robert]

Quote:

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous [unbelievers] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were WASHED, you were SANCTIFIED, you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

"Some" means not all. There were some that had not grown. Let's look at this:

Verse 7 The very fact that you [i.e., "some" of you] have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already [i.e., the flesh is getting its way]. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.

Cheat...swindle...are the same things. What would do, Gerry, if I cheated you out of a million dollars? Would you take me to court? Well, Paul says "why not be cheated" - in other words he is saying what Christ says in Luke 6:30

"If anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back."

Wow...that would be hard! So you can see this sin is easy to commit. Anyway, "some" of these believers were doing this. Were they lost? No....

[Gerr]

And who is the unrighteous and unbeliever?

"And to whom did he swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were DISOBEDIENT? So we see that they were unable to enter because of UNBELIEF." Heb 3:18 ESV. DISOBEDIENCE = UNBELIEF.

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, no adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God," 1 Cor 6:9-10 ESV.

UNRIGHTEOUSNESS = PRACTICE OF SIN ______(fill in the blank)= NO INHERITANCE

Practicing adulterers, swindlers, thieves, etc. not lost? Get real. Better yet, "Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off." Rom 11:22 ESV.

[True-believer]

And who is the unrighteous and unbeliever?

"And to whom did he swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were DISOBEDIENT? So we see that they were unable to enter because of UNBELIEF." Heb 3:18 ESV. DISOBEDIENCE = UNBELIEF.

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, no adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God," 1 Cor 6:9-10 ESV.

UNRIGHTEOUSNESS = PRACTICE OF SIN ______(fill in the blank)= NO INHERITANCE

Practicing adulterers, swindlers, thieves, etc. not lost? Get real. Better yet, "Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off." Rom 11:22 ESV.

Does that mean Gerry Cabalo that you believe people can loose their salvation?

Does that mean you believe you can loose your salvation?

I feel sorry for you Gerry Cabalo..............

Why????????????????????

I have the Blessed Assurance that I am His and He is mine.

Please reconsider Gerry... your salvation depends upon it!!!!!!

[Robert]

And who is the unrighteous...?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

And who is the unrighteous...?

Those whose faith is not in Christ.

Quote:

DISOBEDIENCE = UNBELIEF

Right...unbelief is sin!

John 16:8 And he, when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they believe not on me

Quote:

UNRIGHTEOUSNESS = PRACTICE OF SIN _(self-love)_(fill in the blank)= NO INHERITANCE

No heaven for you according to your own definition.

Are the foolish virgins saved? They have the lamp. They profess a faith that is waiting for the bridegroom. Only the wise ones went into the wedding reception.

Are the tares saved? When the seed sprouted, at first they looked like wheat. But when the harvest came, the wheat were gathered into barns, and the tares BURNED!!!

"The Son of Man will send His angels and they will gather out of his kingdom ALL causes of sin and ALL LAWBREAKERS, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear!" Mt 13:41-43 ESV

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

And who is the unrighteous and unbeliever?

"And to whom did he swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were DISOBEDIENT? So we see that they were unable to enter because of UNBELIEF." Heb 3:18 ESV. DISOBEDIENCE = UNBELIEF.

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, no adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God," 1 Cor 6:9-10 ESV.

UNRIGHTEOUSNESS = PRACTICE OF SIN ______(fill in the blank)= NO INHERITANCE

Practicing adulterers, swindlers, thieves, etc. not lost? Get real. Better yet, "Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off." Rom 11:22 ESV.

Does that mean Gerry Cabalo that you believe people can loose their salvation?

Does that mean you believe you can loose your salvation?

It is written: “But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live. Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die.

The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Eze 18:21-24). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

Quote:

I feel sorry for you Gerry Cabalo..............

Why????????????????????

I have the Blessed Assurance that I am His and He is mine.

Please reconsider Gerry... your salvation depends upon it!!!!!!

Don't feel sorry for me friend. If you are correct that I cannot/will not be lost even though I am still practicing sin or even turn my back on God, then I will be in the kingdom anyway. And I lose nothing. If you turn out to be in error, what will you lose? EVERYTHING!!!

[Robert]

Legalist!

[True-believer]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Those whose faith is not in Christ.

Quote:

DISOBEDIENCE = UNBELIEF

Right...unbelief is sin!

John 16:8 And he' date=' when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they believe not on me

Quote:

UNRIGHTEOUSNESS = PRACTICE OF SIN _(self-love)_(fill in the blank)= NO INHERITANCE

No heaven for you according to your own definition.

[/quote']

Are the foolish virgins saved? They have the lamp. They profess a faith that is waiting for the bridegroom. Only the wise ones went into the wedding reception.

Are the tares saved? When the seed sprouted, at first they looked like wheat. But when the harvest came, the wheat were gathered into barns, and the tares BURNED!!!

"The Son of Man will send His angels and they will gather out of his kingdom ALL causes of sin and ALL LAWBREAKERS, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear!" Mt 13:41-43 ESV

Gerry,

Not everyone who says they are saved will be saved.

Not everyone who says they are a Christian is a Christian.

Remember Jesus says that is the last days many will say, "Lord, Lord," will NOT enter the Kingdom of God.

In other words they weren't really a Christian to begin with.

Only True Christians are once saved always saved, and not the ones who say they are but don't live up to the standard of proper Christian living.

[Robert]

If you are correct that I cannot/will not be lost even though I am still practicing sin...

The Bible says that if there's no "genuine" fruit in the life of the believer that person's faith is a sham, this much is true, but neither does it say that he will be fulfilling the law in its entirety.

And "yes" you are daily practicing iniquity. You were born "bent-to-self" and while hopefully you are experiencing "less self-seeking" you are nonetheless still practicing self-love in your life. If not then instead of building your own wealth you would have that love which seeketh not her own, but another man's wealth. You wouldn't think of self. Look at Christ's life....That's perfection and He never lived for Himself.

[Woody]

Not sure why you had difficulty findint this but I will quote it here:

Quote:

Those who become the sons of God cannot avoid coming into conflict with the hosts of apostasy. . . . Through the merits of the Redeemer, God accepts the efforts of sinful man in keeping His law, which is holy, just, and good. {SD 41.4}

Also ... you say:

Quote:

May I point out something you overlooked when you placed in bold "human righteousness is only filthy rags"? You completely overlooked the word "INDEPENDENT" just before it!!! INDEPENDENT human righteousness, I would agree 1000%, is no better than filthy rags! But God's works in the believer? NEVER!!! Because God's work in the believer is none other than the life of Christ being reproduced in him!!!

Let me be clear that unless your life is totally 100% sinless and equal to Christ's ... your INDEPENDENT human righteousness makes you obtain death. So the 99% of Christ's Righteousness in you becomes as filthy rags towards your salvation because it just isn't enough to save you. Words are so difficult. Let me try again. If you allow Christ's Righteousness in you 99% of the time ... it just ain't enough. It is as filthy rags towards your salvation. If you maintain 1% you will not be saved. No matter how good you may appear using SO much of Christ's Rightness in your life ... it is worthless unless you have 100% of the blood covering your life full of good works through Jesus or not.

Going down the works end will leave you dead every time. Your works through Christ will never be enough to merit salvation.

[Woody]

"If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ’s character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned." CSA 30

I have the disc that supposedly contains all of EGW's writings, but I can't find your reference.

Not sure what is wrong with it. I will quote it as found on the EGW disc:

Quote:

If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ’s character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned.54 {CSA 30.6}

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

If you are correct that I cannot/will not be lost even though I am still practicing sin...

The Bible says that if there's no "genuine" fruit in the life of the believer that person's faith is a sham, this much is true, but neither does it say that he will be fulfilling the law in its entirety.

And "yes" you are daily practicing iniquity. You were born "bent-to-self" and while hopefully you are experiencing "less self-seeking" you are nonetheless still practicing self-love in your life. If not then instead of building your own wealth you would have that love which seeketh not her own, but another man's wealth. You wouldn't think of self. Look at Christ's life....That's perfection and He never lived for Himself.

This is true Robert. We will all sin and will be sinners till the day we die. In the judgment we have the assurance of salvation because the life of Jesus is placed to our account. No amount of Christ's works in you will save you. Only His life placed in place of your life and all the good works that you might have done through Him is what counts and it counts because of His blood.

To think that having a certain amount of Christ's works in you ... will save you ... is pure Legalism.

[phkrause]

I agree with all that you say here, but don't you think that we need to come to the Lord each day and ask for forgiveness for those sins that we live in? Or do you believe that we can just sin and not ask for forgiveness, because once saved we are always saved? I do believe that I know what you are saying. But there are those that are not saying this at all. Because they believe everyone who has ever lived will be saved! Do you buy that? I don't believe that you do!

pk

[Woody]

Hi pk. Good question. I am not sure that the Bible says there is a time limit on when to repent. But your suggestion about each day is a good one.

As to the question about everyone being saved ... I certainly read in the Bible that many will be lost. I think there are very few who think that ALL will be saved. And I am not sure how they could be considered serious Bible students.

[Gerr]

Legalist!

Is that how you defend your position?

[Gerr]

Soooooooo, how can you tell who is REALLY saved among all those who claim to be saved when in reality some are not?