Worship the Creator not the destroyer

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Think, man...think!

I don't recall condescension to be a fruit of the Spirit.

I don't recall that self-love is a fruit either....So don't judge.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Sin pays in death...in self-destruction.

Rob

However without the Law, there is no sin. How then can people self-destruct?

"Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness." 1 John 3:4 NASB

Regards!

I have explained this, but apparently you aren't reading. Go read what I typed and then tell me what I said....Otherwise you are wasting my time and we'll post back and forth for eternity.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

When she is right (according to modern day light) I quote her. Why quote her error? Oh, she doesn't have error because she's infallible. Not![/quote']

Soooooooo, how do you know you're quoting what is truth and not in fact the erroneous part?

Bible....

[Robert]

Quote:

The last time I read the Book, it says the blood of the unrepentant is laid upon his own head, not on Christ.

Gerry...think! All sin was placed on Christ on Calvary, right? Go from there...

If the sins of the lost have been paid by Christ also, then there should be no reason why they should not be in heaven and have inheritance in the earth made new also.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: robert

Think man, think! How many of our sins (including all child molesters) did Christ literally take on Himself? Answer: All the sin from Eve to the last person standing....All those sins were placed on Christ...

I'm not sure I see it that way. Jesus took our sinful nature, all the same temptations we would experiences, yet he sinned not.

The Bible says that Jesus became sin. How? As God He assumed us through the womb of Mary. God united Christ's Deity to our fallen and depraved nature. The humanity He assumed was our humanity under the curse. Hence Christ, as man, was born "under the law" (under the curse). See Gal 4:4. Why? Because He assumed our nature. You see we are sinners both by nature and performance. Christ's assumed humanity was sinful by nature, not performance. The fact He assumed our human nature means He had to die.

But keep in mind that nature and humanity was not His. Christ is God. He has always been God, but at the incarnation He assumed us in order to redeem us from under the curse of the law (God abandonment).

Christ's death was for all sin....He took the curse for the human race. How did that take place? God abandoned Him and released Him to "the wages of sin". Sin kills....

[LifeHiscost]

If the sins of the lost have been paid by Christ also, then there should be no reason why they should not be in heaven and have inheritance in the earth made new also.

Gerry, you've actually stated a truth. The only ones absent from the universe made whole and complete are those who do not trust God to be willing to forgive them and make them new(unbelief), as He has made it clear He is willing, innumerable times.

"And Samuel spake unto all the house of Israel, saying, If ye do return unto the LORD with all your hearts, then put away the strange gods and Ashtaroth from among you, and prepare your hearts unto the LORD, and serve him only: and he will deliver you out of the hand of the Philistines."

1 Samuel 7:3 KJV

"And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD hath rejected thee from being king over Israel."1 Samuel 15:26 KJV

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."1 John 1:9 KJV

Blessings!

[Robert]

"Christ Jesus,...being in the form of God,...emptied Himself, and took upon Him the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men." Philippians 2:5-7, R.V. He was made in the likeness of men, as men are, just where they are.

"The Word was made flesh." He "took part of the same" flesh and blood as that of which the children of men are partakers, as they are since man has fallen into sin. And so it is written: "When the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth His Son, made…under the law."

To be under the law is to be guilty, condemned, and subject to the curse. For it is written: "We know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that...all the world may become guilty before God." This because "all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:19, 23; 6:14. [AT Jones]

[LifeHiscost]

LifeHiscost:

"Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching."2 Tim 4:2 AMP

"Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked"Revelation 3:17 KJV

"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent"Rev 3:19 KJV

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

So don't judge.

OK!

"But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one."1 Cor 2:15 NKJV

"But the spiritual man tries all things [he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him]."1 Cor 2:15 AMP brackets theirs LHC

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

“So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many, To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.”(Hebrews 9:28) “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, everyone to his own way. And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all”(Isaiah 53:6) “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him”(2 Corinthians 5:21) That is why everyone gets raised up because He is a "Savior of all men, especially of those who believe"(1 Timothy 4:10)He took "the wages of sin" for everyone who ever lived upon this earth.

Beautiful words for those who accept His sacrifice for their own sins personally.

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

Otherwise you are wasting my time and we'll post back and forth for eternity.

"

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

...so do these also resist the truth..."2 Timothy 3:7,8

" Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans 14:5 NIV

Regards!

[Stan]

The bases of the ancient Hindu religion are Three Gods

Creator God (main one)

The Destroyer

and

The Encourager

This Thread reminds me of that..

Now, some wills say, they have 1,000 + gods, and that is kinda true, it has evolved into that, but their theologians would say God is so big, that those are really manisfitations of God.

This thread title reminds me of that.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Bible....

You're doing the same to the Bible. You pick what seems right that agrees with your notion, and explain it away when it contradicts you.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Soooooooo, how do you know you're quoting what is truth and not in fact the erroneous part?

Jesus did the same thing.

Are you claiming to have the same insight Jesus had?

Quote:

Quote:

Luke 4:17-21 ESV And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written, (18) "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, (19) to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor." (20) And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. (21) And he began to say to them, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing."

What is interesting, is what Jesus left out!

Quote:

Isaiah 61:1-2 ESV The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; (2) to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn;

Was Isaiah wrong? Or did Jesus leave that part out because the time for vengeance was not yet come?

[Twilight]

I would just note, that no one has really responded to the point I made.

That to accept this teaching, means I have to throw Moses out as uninspired.

Because it has been claimed here that when the Bible states that God commanded Moses into a destructive act, that it was satan that was talking to Moses and Moses did not know the difference.

This is very dangerous as it challenges the basic inspiration of Gods word.

Any thoughts on that?

[BobRyan]

In Hinduism there are three main polytheistic gods and then a few million "lesser gods". The top three are -

1. The Creator - Brahma

2. Sustainer - Vishnu

3. Destroyer. Shiva

Hindus will often "worship the creator but not the destroyer"

By contrast in Christianity - they are all one and the same God so no "Worship the Creator not the Destroyer" in Christianity since we are not polytheistic.

Food for thought.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Gerry - you are correct, that some versions get it wrong! Compare the NIV in Romans 3:4 with GNT, ESV, KJV, NLT, RSV. The NIV gets it wrong.

Daniel 7:22 KJVR Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Daniel 7:22 Darby until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most high places ; and the appointed time arrived, and the saints possessed the kingdom.

Daniel 7:22 BBE Till he came, who was very old, and the decision was made and the authority was given to the saints of the Most High; and the time came when the saints took the kingdom.

Daniel 7:22 ASV until the ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High, and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Daniel 7:22 YLT till that the Ancient of Days hath come, and judgment is given to the saints of the Most High, and the time hath come, and the saints have strengthened the kingdom.

Notice - Judgment was given TO the saints. They were given judgment, understanding, discernment. They understood the issues of the great controversy, and they put their trust in God. The of His (God's) judgment has come, the hour he is being judged. Again, DA page 58

[BobRyan]

Wayyyy back on page 43 of this thread -- there are two posts that give a great deal of "detail" on just how God "destroys" the wicked in the lake of Fire (2nd death) and also just how it is that Christ paid our debt (substitutionary atoning sacrifice - as we all know) at the cross taken from the statements found in Desire of Ages.

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post243650

Ok so - 20 pages later the question is being asked "who destroys" and we seem to bet a Maxwell-this and a Maxwell-that instead of attention to the details listed in those posts.

Are you saying that the best way to deal with those details is to ignore them?

in Christ,

Bob

[Lutz13]

Quote:

In Hinduism there are three main polytheistic gods and then a few million "lesser gods". The top three are -

1. The Creator - Brahma

2. Sustainer - Vishnu

3. Destroyer. Shiva

Hindus will often "worship the creator but not the destroyer"

By contrast in Christianity - they are all one and the same God so no "Worship the Creator not the Destroyer" in Christianity since we are not polytheistic.

Food for thought.

in Christ,

Bob

I'm not sure how this can even be compared. This thread doesn't make claim that Satan(the destroyer)is a god. He wants to be worshiped like a god though, and many in fact do. Many religions in the world claim to be worshiping Jesus. Yet they ignorantly worship the devil. This is why the angel is saying "come out of her!"

[BobRyan]

Quote:

Hold on a minute -- I did not write EW 294 or the Great Controversy. I am just pointing to some inconvenient text for those who prefer not to think about the "details" listed there.

Those text are not inconvenient in any way. John, or even EGW see what they see. Just like all the prophets in the past, it seems as if God is doing it.

[Lutz13]

Quote:

The fact that God's system allows for "free will" such that those who choose evil are seen to have done it in a free will act - rather than forced to choose against God -- is perfectly illustrated above.

If I held a gun to your head and told you what to do, or I would kill you. Am I giving you free will? Do what I say, and you will live. Don't listen, and I'll pull this trigger! Is that free will?

Most of course would listen out of fear. "For God has not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."(2 Timothy 1:7) "There is no fear in love, but perfect love cast out fear: because fear has torment. He that fears is not made perfect in love."(1 John 4:18) Having a fear does nothing for me. In fact it is tiresome and I'm done with it. So in the end, if He does burn me up like you say. Well I probably deserve it. If He lets me live with Him forever...Well, I probably do not deserve that. After finding this amazing love though, I won't turn back. I will just become what God wants me to become.

[Lutz13]

Quote:

Well - He shows "Who is God" -- "Who created LIFE" vs "WHO is Creature" for one thing.

He shows that while man "can not destroy both body and soul in fiery hell" Matt 10:27... "God CAN" Matt 10:28.

The moment we try to fit the limits of man on God -- we make His word out to be false.

Right. So why didn't He snuff out Satan before all of this happened?

[Guest WilloMar]

Concerning Matt. 10:28, "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul (the eternal soul?): but rather fear him (Satan) which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (in an eternally burn hell?)." This is one of the arguments for an Eternally Hell-Fire Doctrine. Besides, what makes you think Jesus is referring to Him, or His Father's killing power? Read the next verse, verse 29: "Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father (seeing it, and feeling sad). Verse 30: "But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Verse 31: Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows."

Let's be ready for Christ!

[Lutz13]

Concerning Matt. 10:28, "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul (the eternal soul?): but rather fear him (Satan) which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (in an eternally burn hell?)." This is one of the arguments for an Eternally Hell-Fire Doctrine. Besides, what makes you think Jesus is referring to Him, or His Father's killing power? Read the next verse, verse 29: "Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father (seeing it, and feeling sad). Verse 30: "But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Verse 31: Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows."

Let's be ready for Christ!

Right! "For God has not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."(2 Timothy 1:7) It is clear that fear does not come from God. "There is no fear in love; but perfect love cast out fear: because fear has torment. He that fears is not made perfect in love."(1 John 4:18) Would Jesus tell us to be afraid of the Father? "He that has seen Me, has seen the Father."(John 14:9)"For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens."(Hebrews 7:26) Now answer this. Why would Jesus, who has the same character as the Father. Tell us to be afraid of Him? Obviously He was referring to someone else.

[Lutz13]

Quote:

That to accept this teaching, means I have to throw Moses out as uninspired.

Well, one thing is for sure. We do not follow the law of Moses anymore. I do not see them as inspired. "The counsel of the Lord stands forever, the thoughts of His heart to all generations"(Psalms 33:11) That and stoning people to death has been abolished, among other things.

Also, please do not think that I am throwing out Moses. I am just on a journey to understand what went on. Some things just do not add up for me. Like when Moses made a serpent of brass and put it on a pole.(Numbers 21:9) That makes no sense to me. These people looked at this brass serpent(an idol for sure) to be cured. I do however believe God took something evil and made good out of it. There are many other things.