Moderators Gerr Posted May 20, 2009 Moderators Posted May 20, 2009 Does new light render previously revealed light false? Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted May 20, 2009 Moderators Posted May 20, 2009 Rev 12 talks about a war in heaven in which the devil and his angels lost to Michael and His angels. The record proceeds to say that they were "cast out" or "thrown out" of heaven. Question: Who threw them out? Quote
Woody Posted May 20, 2009 Posted May 20, 2009 Does new light render previously revealed light false? New Light is always better than old light. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Robert Posted May 20, 2009 Posted May 20, 2009 It would be cruel and unusual punishment if the lost would burn in hell forever Quote
Robert Posted May 20, 2009 Posted May 20, 2009 If righteous indignation does not well up in your heart against a child molester that goes on to murder his victim besides, then IMHO, you have no heart at all! Something else to think about: If God had not allowed Lucifer to develop his self-love there would have never been your child molester. Why did God allow it? Again, because the love of self sounds wonderful. Has 6000 years of self-love improved this world, or has it made it worse? Answer: The latter. Rob Quote
Robert Posted May 20, 2009 Posted May 20, 2009 Before iniquity entered the human race, not even the angels understood Lucifer's concept of love. That's why sin is deceiver. Here are some good EGW quotes: "The law of self-serving is the law of self-destruction." What is our global economy built on? The acquisition of goods. It's very self-centered system. You are always trying to get one up on the other guy. Some call it a dog eat dog world. It's very competitive and vicious. This is "the law of self-serving". What does the love of self do? It brings self-destruction. "Self-renunciation is the great law of self-preservation, and self-preservation is the law of self-destruction." IF you want to preserve your life you must renounce self. You must cease to live for yourself and instead live for another's wealth. Hence: "You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth." [DA 439] And lastly, "Self-love, self-interest, must perish. And the law of self-sacrifice is the law of self-preservation." So what destroys? Is it God? No way....It's selfishness...it's the love of self. And once God removes His Spirit from this world, as He did in the flood, watch out. Then we shall truly see that sin kills.....Sin pays in death...in self-destruction. Rob Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted May 20, 2009 Moderators Posted May 20, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo It would be cruel and unusual punishment if the lost would burn in hell forever Isn't the 2nd death, no hope of a resurrection, punishment enough? Besides what good does it do to burn someone for many days? Why the torture? Doesn't fit with the God I know of.... If the wicked are not resurrected to receive their just reward for what they have done to others, what's the point? Why not let them just stay in the grave? Quote: If righteous indignation does not well up in your heart against a child molester that goes on to murder his victim besides, then IMHO, you have no heart at all! Think man, think! How many of our sins (including all child molesters) did Christ literally take on Himself? Answer: All the sin from Eve to the last person standing....All those sins were placed on Christ....How was God's wrath taken out on the son of man whom He placed the sins of the world on? Right, God abandoned Christ to the surrounding destruction. This is how God works....So, since all sin was placed on Christ, why would God treat the child molester any different? After all sexual sin is just a drop in the bucket compared to the whole world's sins. Think, man...think! Beg your pardon? You think you're the only one thinking? The last time I read the Book, it says the blood of the unrepentant is laid upon his own head, not on Christ. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 For sure we don't need purposeful rebukes. "Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching."2 Tim 4:2 AMP "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked"Revelation 3:17 KJV "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent"Rev 3:19 KJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators Gerr Posted May 21, 2009 Moderators Posted May 21, 2009 Before iniquity entered the human race, not even the angels understood Lucifer's concept of love. That's why sin is deceiver. Here are some good EGW quotes: "The law of self-serving is the law of self-destruction." What is our global economy built on? The acquisition of goods. It's very self-centered system. You are always trying to get on up on the other guy. Some call it a dog eat dog world. It's very competitive and vicious. This is "the law of self-serving". What does the love of self do? It brings self-destruction. "Self-renunciation is the great law of self-preservation, and self-preservation is the law of self-destruction." IF you want to preserve your life you must renounce self. You must cease to live for yourself and instead live for another's wealth. Hence: "You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth." [DA 439] "In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure [i.e., own way]; but all, from pure, genuine love [agape], will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132] And lastly, "Self-love, self-interest, must perish. And the law of self-sacrifice is the law of self-preservation." Interesting how you cling to EGW when it suits your purpose, but woe to her when she contradicts you - then she's a false prophet! Quote: So what destroys? Is it God? No way....It's selfishness...it's the love of self. And what God removes His Spirit from this world, as He did in the flood, watch out. Then we shall truly see that sin kills.....Sin pays in death...in self-destruction. Rob Of course, sin destroys. But who carries out the verdict? Is sin able to open up the ground to swallow sinners? How come sinners are not swallowed up NOW? Is sin able to light up a match to consume sinners? How come the cities that are dens of iniquity not burned up NOW? So how were the devil and his angels thrown out of heaven? Does sin have arms to throw them out? or legs to kick them out? Quote
Robert Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 If the wicked are not resurrected to receive their just reward for what they have done to others, what's the point? Why not let them just stay in the grave? Quote
LifeHiscost Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 New Light is always better than old light. As long as it does no violence to the old, that is possibly true. However, light in the past does not become darkness just because someone cannot see the light. "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed."John 3:20 NKJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Robert Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Interesting how you cling to EGW when it suits your purpose, but woe to her when she contradicts you - then she's a false prophet! Quote
Robert Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Originally Posted By: Redwood New Light is always better than old light. As long as it does no violence to the old, that is possibly true. Supposition.... Quote
Robert Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 EGW said Christ hardly felt the nails. "He cannot see the Father's reconciling face. The withdrawal of the divine countenance from the Saviour in this hour of supreme anguish pierced His heart with a sorrow that can never be fully understood by man. So great was this agony that His physical pain was hardly felt" Quote
LifeHiscost Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Think, man...think! I don't recall condescension to be a fruit of the Spirit. Especially when one has pointed out the Law to be a curse, not recognizing that would have made almighty God guilty of writing a curse with His own finger, for man to stumble over. "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:19 KJV And that's New Covenant. And to what Law is that referred. "“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment."Matt 5"17,21,22 NKJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Woody Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Quote: I don't recall condescension to be a fruit of the Spirit. Quote: Originally Posted By: RedwoodFor sure we don't need purposeful rebukes. LifeHiscost: "Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching."2 Tim 4:2 AMP "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked"Revelation 3:17 KJV "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent"Rev 3:19 KJV Regards! Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
LifeHiscost Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Sin pays in death...in self-destruction. Rob However without the Law, there is no sin. How then can people self-destruct? "Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness." 1 John 3:4 NASB Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators Gerr Posted May 21, 2009 Moderators Posted May 21, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Interesting how you cling to EGW when it suits your purpose, but woe to her when she contradicts you - then she's a false prophet! When she is right (according to modern day light) I quote her. Why quote her error? Oh, she doesn't have error because she's infallible. Not! Soooooooo, how do you know you're quoting what is truth and not in fact the erroneous part? Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted May 21, 2009 Moderators Posted May 21, 2009 Quote: The last time I read the Book, it says the blood of the unrepentant is laid upon his own head, not on Christ. Gerry...think! All sin was placed on Christ on Calvary, right? Go from there... If the sins of the lost have been paid by Christ also, then there should be no reason why they should not be in heaven and have inheritance in the earth made new also. Quote
APL Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert When she is right (according to modern day light) I quote her. Why quote her error? Oh, she doesn't have error because she's infallible. Not! Soooooooo, how do you know you're quoting what is truth and not in fact the erroneous part? [/quote'] Jesus did the same thing. Quote: Luke 4:17-21 ESV And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written, (18) "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, (19) to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor." (20) And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. (21) And he began to say to them, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing." What is interesting, is what Jesus left out! Quote: Isaiah 61:1-2 ESV The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; (2) to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn; Quote
APL Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Think man, think! How many of our sins (including all child molesters) did Christ literally take on Himself? Answer: All the sin from Eve to the last person standing....All those sins were placed on Christ... I'm not sure I see it that way. Jesus took our sinful nature, all the same temptations we would experiences, yet he sinned not. He conquered death. He destroyed death. Isa 53:4 "Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows". He truly experiences the weight of sin. But to say he was punished for each act of sin I don't think is the meaning of his experience on earth. If he did, then just "think" how the abortion issue has saved Jesus from bearing all the sins of those fetuses that were aborted! No, he took our sinful nature, and cured it. Quote
Lutz13 Posted May 21, 2009 Author Posted May 21, 2009 Quote: If the sins of the lost have been paid by Christ also, then there should be no reason why they should not be in heaven and have inheritance in the earth made new also. When we are raised up, we have the same character as when we die. So when the wicked are raised up, they do not have a Christ like character and they sin once again. This time there is no grace. God isn't there to restrain the destruction. Quote
Lutz13 Posted May 21, 2009 Author Posted May 21, 2009 Quote: I'm not sure I see it that way. Jesus took our sinful nature, all the same temptations we would experiences, yet he sinned not. He conquered death. He destroyed death. Isa 53:4 "Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows". He truly experiences the weight of sin. But to say he was punished for each act of sin I don't think is the meaning of his experience on earth. If he did, then just "think" how the abortion issue has saved Jesus from bearing all the sins of those fetuses that were aborted! No, he took our sinful nature, and cured it. My understanding is that He did indeed take the punishment for all sin ever committed. “So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many, To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.”(Hebrews 9:28) “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, everyone to his own way. And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all”(Isaiah 53:6) “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him”(2 Corinthians 5:21) That is why everyone gets raised up because He is a "Savior of all men, especially of those who believe"(1 Timothy 4:10)He took "the wages of sin" for everyone who ever lived upon this earth. Quote
APL Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 I can read what you quoted, and still see it my way. Are you saying that every sin must be punished? You know that is a charge of Satan. The individual acts of sin are not the root of the problem we face. Acts of sin are just the acting out of of the fearful, selfish heart. Quote
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