Worship the Creator not the destroyer

[Lutz13]

Quote:

Do we view judges as tyrants because they mete out justice? Is that how we look at the Supreme Court of the USA? The supreme tyrant of the country?

Once again. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, Saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."(Isaiah 55:8-9) God is not us. His ways are not our ways, yet people keep comparing our ways to Gods ways!

Our Justice:

"And the man that commits adultery with another man's wife, even he that commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10)

Gods ways:

"He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first"(John 8:7) "For I am the Lord, I change not..."(Malachi 3:6) "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today and forever."(Hebrews 13:8) Once again, Gods judgment is not like ours. "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him, the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day."(John 12:48)What is Gods word? Obviously it is truth and light. What does the light reveal? The truth, it shows everything. Their sins are revealed and they bow down. Does God kill them? No. Why would He need to? They don't change and they sin and completely separate themselves from God. What is the difference between now and after the second resurrection? Now we have grace. There will not be grace, so who will sustain them? Nobody, so they end up destroying themselves. Right now because of Grace we are protected. Without Grace, there is no protection, there is nothing to hold back the humans self destructive motives. "whoever commits sin, is a slave of sin."(John 8:34) What does sin do? It destroys.

[Gerr]

How we view God, makes all the difference. If we view God as a harsh creditor, we will be afraid of him. The man with the one talent "knew" his master was a hard man. He was afraid of him. He was wrong. If we make God out to be someone to be afraid of, because he is going to kill you if you don't love him, how can we put our trust (faith) in him? This is eternal life, that we know God and Jesus Christ who he sent. John 17:3.

I view God not only a God of love but also a God of justice. Love without justice is anarchy. Justice without love is tyranny.

"Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne; steadfast love and faithfulness go before you." Ps 89:14.

What is the point of having law if there are no consequences to breaking them?

You still haven't addressed my question, i.e. do we view judges as tyrants? And the US Supreme Court as the Court of Supreme Tyranny?

[Gerr]

So God had nothing to do with the Flood? Nothing to do with the fire of Sodom? Nothing to do with the fire of hell that consumes the wicked?

[Gerr]

Quote:

"whoever commits sin, is a slave of sin."(John 8:34) What does sin do? It destroys.

Did sin turn on the spigot to drown the antediluvians? How?

Did sin rain the fire on Sodom? How?

Will sin light the match of hell fire to burn the wicked? How?

Love without justice IS anarchy. Justice without love IS tyranny.

[Gail]

Gerry, I had the same questions...

The Bible tells us to respect earthly authority, because it is God-ordained for our protection. Earthly courts are set up to protect the innocent. You do not have to fear them if you are innocent.

If one is "in Christ" one need not to fear a Heavenly court, either. It is only those who stubbornly hang on to their sinful ways and refuse God's remedy that need to fear any penalty for their sins, as they have chosen the way without an Advocate.

[APL]

I view God not only a God of love but also a God of justice. Love without justice is anarchy. Justice without love is tyranny.

"Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne; steadfast love and faithfulness go before you." Ps 89:14.

What is the point of having law if there are no consequences to breaking them?

Breaking the law of the universe, the law of Love, has the most dire consequences. It is death. The wages of sin is death. It is not execution by God.

Smoking - is there anything wrong with smoking? Does the doctor give the smoker COPD or lung cancer, and then kill the smoker? No. Smoking pays its wages, and it is ruin and death.

One of the things Jesus demonstrated on by the cross was the consequences of sin and how God was involved. No? Did God execute Jesus?

[Twilight]

Quote:

Yes! You get it. We are saved through faith (trust). And this salvation is a free gift! (Eph 2:8). We only develop faith/trust in someone we judge to be trustworthy. If you do not trust God, you do not have faith in him, you will will not be saved. You will be fearful of God.

From what I understand at this moment. We have the choice if we want heaven or not. All will be revealed, and "they shall throw you down into the Pit, and you shall die the death of the slain in the midst of the seas"(Ezekiel 28:8) Even after everything is revealed, they still do not change. Their destructive characters will bring them to their own doom. That is why it is so important to have the same character as our God.

"The last message of mercy to be given to the world is a revelation of His character of love. The children of God are to manifest His glory. In their own life and character they are to reveal what the grace of God has done for them."--COL 415, 416 (1900). {LDE 200.4}

I believe this is the message. I thought I was one of the few that believed this until I posted here! I learned even more. This teaching is spreading throughout the SDA church. It is going much faster than I thought it would. Notice what she says, it is a revelation of His character of love. Something is being revealed about His character. For so long everyone has looked at Him as a killer. Somehow beyond my understanding many tried to justify it. I have a feeling people want their enemies to be punished.

I have a feeling people want their enemies to be punished.

This is where you have to be very careful my friend.

Just because someone does not agree with you, does not mean they want all of their enemies destroyed.

That has been presented on here again and again.

You should not assume anyones motive, as you cannot read their hearts.

God bless,

Mark

[Guest WilloMar]

"God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejecter of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. Every ray of light rejected, every warning despised or unheeded, every passion indulged, every transgression of the law of God, is a seed sown, which yields its unfailing harvest. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan." GC 36

"I counsel thee to buy of Me...eye-salve, that thou mayest see." Rev. 3:18

Prepare for His return!

[Guest WilloMar]

“At the coming of Christ the wicked are blotted from the face of the whole earth, -- consumed with the spirit of His mouth (His Word), and destroyed by the brightness of His Glory (His character SD 337).” (GC 657) (Compare SD 337, SC 29, 1BC 1104, 1105 and 6BC 1097)

Let's be ready for Jesus!

[Guest WilloMar]

This is going to be hard for some of you to believe, but the wicked actually judge themselve. And not only that, but they're also their own executioner. So, let's not be one of them and buy from Jesus, the true Witness, gold tried in the fire (the fire of God's Word to purify our character after His), that we may be rich.

Jesus is coming soon!

[LifeHiscost]

You still haven't addressed my question, i.e. do we view judges as tyrants? And the US Supreme Court as the Court of Supreme Tyranny?

Sometimes in this world, that is exactly the way they are, Gerry, perhaps less so in the land of the free and the home of the brave. However that is rapidly changing throughout the world, even in North America.

"So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment."James 2:12-14 NKJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

This is where you have to be very careful my friend.

Just because someone does not agree with you, does not mean they want all of their enemies destroyed.

That has been presented on here again and again.

You should not assume anyones motive, as you cannot read their hearts.

God bless,

Mark

Not picking any person's side against the other, save the side of Jesus against the enemy of righteousness, a hearty amen to that above.

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

[Guest WilloMar]

The gold tried in the fire is love. When we love as Jesus loves we will love our enemies, which includes loving the wicked, being sorrowful at their death.

You are correct, LifeHiscost, "The gold tried in the fire is love." And love is the character of God. It is through His Word that transforms our sinful character into His character of love.

"Wherefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, 'Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make My Words in thy mouth Fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them." Jer. 5:14.

"Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the Words of My mouth..." Hos. 6:5.

"Is not My Word like as a fire? Saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?" Jer. 23:29.

One more:

"Then I said, 'I will not make mention of Him, nor speak any more in His Name.' But His Word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay." Jer. 20:9 That was the work of God's Word.

Let's be ready for Jesus!

[Robert]

Do we view judges as tyrants because they mete out justice? Is that how we look at the Supreme Court of the USA? The supreme tyrant of the country?

You can't compare God to sinful mankind.

[Robert]

So God had nothing to do with the Flood? Nothing to do with the fire of Sodom? Nothing to do with the fire of hell that consumes the wicked?

Yes...He allowed Lucifer to develop the love of self....Why? As I said, the love of self doesn't sound sinful, it sounds simply wonderful! Hence the reason God allowed it to progress. Because He allowed it He assumes the responsibility, but not the blame. That issue will be dealt with in day of atonement.

[Robert]

Quote:

"whoever commits sin, is a slave of sin."(John 8:34) What does sin do? It destroys.

Did sin turn on the spigot to drown the antediluvians? How?

Did sin rain the fire on Sodom? How?

Will sin light the match of hell fire to burn the wicked? How?

Yes! I already explained in detail.....Please re-read my material.

[Robert]

Gerry, I had the same questions...

The Bible tells us to respect earthly authority, because it is God-ordained for our protection. Earthly courts are set up to protect the innocent. You do not have to fear them if you are innocent.

Please, earthly courts are corrupt. We have abortion, right? We have the rich with one set of rules and the poor with another....Yes, it's better than nothing, but it is corrupt and justice is anything but perfect.

God has given the problems of this world over to its governing officials. Why? Because mankind elected a new leader 6000 yrs ago. The Bible calls him the lord of this world.

Is the world getting any better? No! Ever nation/kingdom has fallen. In fact the US will go up against God himself....

But these officials are slowing the anarchy down. It beats nothing. Like Jack S. says, "the worst of government is better than no government at all."

[Robert]

Breaking the law of the universe, the law of Love, has the most dire consequences. It is death. The wages of sin is death. It is not execution by God.

Smoking - is there anything wrong with smoking? Does the doctor give the smoker COPD or lung cancer, and then kill the smoker? No. Smoking pays its wages, and it is ruin and death.

Excellent reply...simply excellent!

[Robert]

"God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejecter of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. ....

Oh this is great....

[Robert]

So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

Oh boy....Come on, I've already been over this. The law of liberty is Christ [2 Corinthians 3:1-18]. The law, in and of itself, is a yoke of bondage. It cant' help...It only demands and condemns!

1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin [sin kills], and the law gives sin its power [permission to kill].

Here's justice 101: For sin to take you down 6 ft under God has to retreat. At the fall God retreated, but not fully. Hence we were born outside God's Spirit.

Those who reject the rebirth will take the curse of the law, the 2nd death, the wages of sin (death), upon themselves. Thus the law, when God abandons the unbeliever, gives sin permission to destroy him.

[Robert]

Here's the context:

50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." 55 "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory [over the 2nd death] through our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Lutz13]

Quote:

I have a feeling people want their enemies to be punished.

This is where you have to be very careful my friend.

Just because someone does not agree with you, does not mean they want all of their enemies destroyed.

That has been presented on here again and again.

You should not assume anyones motive, as you cannot read their hearts.

God bless,

Mark

Your demand for justice says otherwise. You give a very human version and claim it is Gods way.

[Robert]

Your demand for justice says otherwise. You give a very human version and claim it is Gods way.

teehe

[Lutz13]

Originally Posted By: Lutz13

Your demand for justice says otherwise. You give a very human version and claim it is Gods way.

teehe

Maybe I said too much, I do not know. But those who demand justice do not really forgive do they?