Robert Posted May 23, 2009 Posted May 23, 2009 You are trying to legitimize sin. You call evil [self-love], good ... Well, I didn't know at one time either and God allowed me to go through my own hell. No, I didn't have boils...but it was bad enough. That's why God allowed Lucifer to develop his love of self. Like I said, it sounds wonderful. When you tell people it's technically sin, well, they get mad...real mad. They usually come back with some smart-butt question like, "Oh, so we should hate ourselves?" Well, that's stupid because the opposite of self-love is not self-hate...it's selflessness. Self-hate is still dwelling on self and one's failures in not being able to out do the competition. Like I said...self-love seems so wonderful, but it is a lie. That's why I posted Whitney's song....I'm not trying to smack her around...that's all she knows (I guess?)....A person who understands agape couldn't sing that song with any enthusiasm. Listen to this song again and you'll see why self-love is so appealing: The greatest love: Self-love Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted May 23, 2009 Moderators Posted May 23, 2009 Sounds so pious, doesn't it? No self-love. But you keep ignoring the second great commandment: YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF. Quote
Lutz13 Posted May 23, 2009 Author Posted May 23, 2009 Sounds so pious, doesn't it? No self-love. But you keep ignoring the second great commandment: YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF. Yes, you are to take that selfish love you have of yourself, and use it for your neighbor instead. Quote
Robert Posted May 23, 2009 Posted May 23, 2009 When Job heard the voice of the Lord out of the whirlwind, he exclaimed: “I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.” Job 42:6....There can be no self-exaltation, no boastful claim to freedom from sin..." Okay...we saw how God backed off partially out of Job's life. Let's look at another Bible character - Nebuchadnezzar Dan 4: 29 Just twelve months later, he was walking on the balcony of the royal palace in Babylon 30 and boasted, "Look at this, Babylon the great! And I built it all by myself, a royal palace adequate to display my honor and glory!" 31 The words were no sooner out of his mouth than a voice out of heaven spoke, "This is the verdict on you, King Nebuchadnezzar: Your kingdom is taken from you. 32 You will be driven out of human company and live with the wild animals. You will eat grass like an ox. The sentence is for seven seasons, enough time to learn that the High God rules human kingdoms and puts whomever he wishes in charge." 33 It happened at once. Nebuchadnezzar was driven out of human company, ate grass like an ox, and was soaked in heaven's dew. His hair grew like the feathers of an eagle and his nails like the claws of a hawk. 34 "At the end of the seven years, I, Nebuchadnezzar, looked to heaven. I was given my mind back and I blessed the High God, thanking and glorifying God, who lives forever. "His sovereign rule lasts and lasts, his kingdom never declines and falls. Where did God go? He retreated. Why? Nebuchadnezzar's love of self went to his head....He got so high and might that God abandoned him for 7 years. Apparently God was keeping him sane.... Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted May 23, 2009 Moderators Posted May 23, 2009 Selflessness does NOT mean NO self. Here are some definitions of the word: Altruism, the quality of unselfish concern for the welfare of others. Acting with less concern for yourself than for the success of the joint activity. If you really believed that Jesus wants every follower of His to have no hole, no home, no possessions, no education, then why don't YOU do it? Quote
Robert Posted May 23, 2009 Posted May 23, 2009 Sounds so pious, doesn't it? No self-love. But you keep ignoring the second great commandment: YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF. No, Gerry...it is you who is being pious. You reduce agape down to Lucifer's love of self. Sick! As Shane pointed out years ago concerning that verse, who is Jesus speaking to? Sinners or holy folks? Right, sinners.... You don't have to tell infants to love self....They are that way by birth. They are very selfish at that age and don't hide it....Later on they learn to hide it to get their way. More iniquity...but it keeps you out of jail.... Anyway if you gave one child a toy and the other none, what happens? Answer: Self-love....They'll fight over that toy because who's the most important person in their lives? Answer: Themselves. This is all they know.... So, Gerry, knowing this - God is not telling you to love yourself....You're already there! He is giving only one commandment! Why can't you see this? "Love your neighbor (how?) as you love self." In other words take that self-love and instead of serving yourself, serve others only....That's the aim, but I would say we are coming up short, huh? Rob Quote
Robert Posted May 23, 2009 Posted May 23, 2009 Here are some definitions of the word Sorry, those are human definitions. Use God's word...use agape... Rob Quote
Robert Posted May 23, 2009 Posted May 23, 2009 If you really believed that Jesus wants every follower of His to have no hole, no home, no possessions, no education, then why don't YOU do it? Because, 1] I'm not under the law. 2] I still have self-love in my life 3] I'm not blind to it, like some folks (you) 4] And therefore I need Christ's righteousness in the judgment instead of my own filthy righteousness. Now, here's what's ironic....The last generation of Christians who fully reflect the self-emptying love of God [i.e., the 144,000 not a literal number] will be without....They have given up all because Jesus gave up all....They have let go of everything (no self-interests) and they loved not their lives even unto death. Hence, “Their earthliness must be removed that the image of Christ may be perfectly reflected.” [4SP 438] By "earthliness" she means love of the world. What does the world love? Themselves! All that's in the world is built on this principle! Everything, therefore, that goes to make up this worldly system (kosmos) — nationalism, tribalism, politics, education, commerce, recreation, sports, social clubs, technology, etc. — is founded upon the principle of love of self, even though at times this principle may not be obvious. According to 1 John 2:16, “all that is in the world” (i.e., without exception) is based or founded upon lust (i.e., love of self). [Jack S.] Quote
Lutz13 Posted May 23, 2009 Author Posted May 23, 2009 Quote: If you really believed that Jesus wants every follower of His to have no hole, no home, no possessions, no education, then why don't YOU do it? Because God knows I am no where near ready for that. He is preparing me now for when the time comes and He needs me somewhere else. I will answer that call and go do His will and not my own. By doing His will, my love for Him, is greater than the love I have of myself. I figured the cross would have shown Christians what Gods love truly is. Sadly it hasn't. God was willing to never be God again, to never see life again just so we could have a chance at life. Until we have that same kind of love, then we still belong to this world. Quote
Robert Posted May 23, 2009 Posted May 23, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Sounds so pious, doesn't it? No self-love. But you keep ignoring the second great commandment: YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF. Yes, you are to take that selfish love you have of yourself, and use it for your neighbor instead. Thank you ....You have vision! But I won't give you the credit for this revelation, but rather your Father in heaven has revealed it to you! Excellent....Finally I don't think I'm so crazy now.... teehe Quote
Lutz13 Posted May 23, 2009 Author Posted May 23, 2009 Quote: Thank you....You have vision! But I won't give you the credit for this revelation, but rather your Father in heaven has revealed it to you! Excellent....Finally I don't think I'm so crazy now.... “I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will guide you with My eye.”(Psalms 32:8) Quote
Robert Posted May 23, 2009 Posted May 23, 2009 Quote: If you really believed that Jesus wants every follower of His to have no hole, no home, no possessions, no education, then why don't YOU do it? Because God knows I am no where near ready for that. If God takes you there it sure won't be through this "God of wrath" principle that just about everyone believes in. If you are afraid of God, even just a little, you won't make it. God is your everything...He is your life...He loves you more than Himself....He lives for you!!!! That's what will get you through the time of trouble if God sees fit to take you through it....Many will be laid to rest because it will be too much....For those who go through it they will fully reflect the agape love of God. Why? As a witness to how God really is and then the end will come....But on the other side (false religion) you'll have folks trying to kill you in the name of God....Hmmm? Quote
Robert Posted May 23, 2009 Posted May 23, 2009 God was willing to never be God again, to never see life again just so we could have a chance at life. How long have you known this truth? This is what changed me...my view of God...just a lot of things....Wow, God loves me, a rascal...a self-centered, ego centered fool, more than Himself. The cross of Christ proves this!!!! And since Jesus came to show us the Father, I know He loves me the same way also....the HS too...That's why the only thing to fear is living without God....I'm not afraid of God...I'm afraid of being without God, who is agape!!!!! TU :Jesusfish: Quote
Robert Posted May 23, 2009 Posted May 23, 2009 This subject generates more interest then anything else I know of....Look how many views so far: 5816 Good going, Lutz13 Quote
Robert Posted May 23, 2009 Posted May 23, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Sounds so pious, doesn't it? No self-love. But you keep ignoring the second great commandment: YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF. Yes, you are to take that selfish love you have of yourself, and use it for your neighbor instead. I've been over this 2 billion times with Gerry (okay, only 1 billion)....He doesn't see one commandment, he sees two....Talk about education??? teehe Just messing with you, Doc....You are smarter than me, but I think you need a refresher course on math....? Rob Quote
Robert Posted May 23, 2009 Posted May 23, 2009 Originally Posted By: Lutz13 Yes, you are to take that selfish love you have of yourself, and use it for your neighbor instead. [/quote'] Thank you ....You have vision! But I won't give you the credit for this revelation, but rather your Father in heaven has revealed it to you! Excellent....Finally I don't think I'm so crazy now.... teehe BTW, under grace the Bible does make allowance of some self-seeking. Note, I said under grace, not under law. If you want to be under law then you live Christ's life in all details. In His life there wasn't any self-seeking...none! Where is this allowance found? Phil 2:3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. 4 Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. And EGW advises the same: "There should be less proud self-seeking...." Folks, that's because we have been delivered from under law, but as John would bring up (where is he?), You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. Quote
Lutz13 Posted May 23, 2009 Author Posted May 23, 2009 Quote: How long have you known this truth? This is what changed me...my view of God...just a lot of things....Wow, God loves me, a rascal...a self-centered, ego centered fool, more than Himself. The cross of Christ proves this!!!! And since Jesus came to show us the Father, I know He loves me the same way also....the HS too...That's why the only thing to fear is living without God....I'm not afraid of God...I'm afraid of being without God, who is agape!!!!! :tthumbsup: :Jesusfish: Well, my Grandpa has always been telling me about this, but I never really looked into it until about a year ago. Before this truth I kind of just...Acted it out and never truly knew who God was. It got to the point where I would rather just not think about Him and try and say He doesn't exist because I was afraid of Him. The way He was presented to me was a bit legalistic. The 10 commandments were preached and told that they needed to be followed. I would try and get frustrated because I couldn't. So I gave up on it and just did what I wanted to do. When I came back and started to learn of this new truth. It changed my view. The more I studied it the more I realized that. Instead of looking at the law, I need to look to Christ. Instead of looking at my failures, I need to look to Christ. There was something there. And believe it or not, it wasn't until I posted this topic here at this forum that I finally realized what the cross truly meant. That God does indeed love me more than Himself. That gave me the desire to give Him the respect that He desires, and it is a lot easier to bow down to Him because of it. I am now beginning to understand His love. I now have a desire to love Him the same way. Though I do not have it now, the more I study Him the more I will become like Him. Jesus said, "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart; and you shall find rest unto your souls."(Matthew 11:29) When I claimed a promise God made to me, it started to happen. “I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will guide you with My eye.”(Psalms 32:8) Things started to open up for me. Though I may not be perfect, the journey I am taking now is wonderful and worth all the time I use up to learn of Him. Quote
Lutz13 Posted May 23, 2009 Author Posted May 23, 2009 Quote: I love these Icons! Hah yeah! I need to use them more. They add character to the post. Quote
Robert Posted May 23, 2009 Posted May 23, 2009 Well, my Grandpa has always been telling me about this Quote
Lutz13 Posted May 23, 2009 Author Posted May 23, 2009 Quote: But how do you know it is God talking to you? If Moses did not know and he spoke with God face to face? This is not intended as a personal attack, but a genuine question. That is indeed a tough question Twilight. How does one know if God is speaking to them or not. Perhaps that would be another good study to discuss. "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone will to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him. Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill me?"(John 7:16-19) This message seeks to glorify God. There is no self seeking with this message. Also I might add. Lucifer appears as an angel of light. In fact he can wear many masks to deceive. That is why when Christ died on the cross, it revealed to the world and unfallen worlds who was the true murderer. Quote
Lutz13 Posted May 23, 2009 Author Posted May 23, 2009 Quote: So you liked that? Well, thank God for Jack Sequeira on that one! That's where I learned it....Every Christian should understand this truth!!! Here it is again: Fosaken of God Keep in mind that Jack believes like we do concerning "the wrath of God". Yeah, it has been really insightful. What really showed me Gods love though, was something M. M. Campbell said. Quote: Jesus' sole response to rejection was to go away. The cross says He would rather die Himself than destroy His creatures. That is what really struck me. I thought about what was written there for a bit and that was when I realized that God loves us more than Himself. The cross had a new meaning for me. I actually realized what a selfish jerk I really was. Because I do not have that same kind of love inside of me. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted May 23, 2009 Moderators Posted May 23, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Behold him who laughs when a paraphrase is used while he himself uses one because it's convenient! Fair enough: NIV: a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. NKJV: the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you F88 because they have not known the Father nor Me. "Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be CUT OFF." Rom 11:22 Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted May 23, 2009 Moderators Posted May 23, 2009 Quote: And when grace is withheld and He goes away, then what? What are the 4 winds that are being restrained? Is sin such a person as powerful as God that it can open the earth to swallow sinners? or rain fire from the heavens? You will see as the plagues are poured out. It was man who really did it, not God. They are to reap what they have sown. Gods wrath will be poured out without mixture. Read chapter 1 of The Great Controversy if you wish to understand this. Otherwise, I do not know what to tell you anymore. You have ignored the biblical definition of Gods wrath, because it doesn't agree with your wrath. Would there have been a flood without divine intervention? Would there still be hellfire without divine intervention? Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted May 23, 2009 Moderators Posted May 23, 2009 Did the jury and the judge commit murder when they sentenced Ted Bundy to die? Quote
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