Robert Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 ok, is that a yes or a no? It's a moot issue....It is not a test of faith at this time.... Quote
Robert Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 I see Good... "Sundaykeeping is not yet the mark of the beast...." [MS 118, 1899] Likewise the Sabbath is not yet the seal (symbol) of God. Quote
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook I see Good... "Sundaykeeping is not yet the mark of the beast...." [MS 118, 1899] Likewise the Sabbath is not yet the seal (symbol) of God. No sundaykeeping is not yet the mark, but the Sabbath has been the Sabbath since creation. Quote
Robert Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert Good... "Sundaykeeping is not yet the mark of the beast...." [MS 118' date=' 1899'] Likewise the Sabbath is not yet the seal (symbol) of God. No sundaykeeping is not yet the mark, but the Sabbath has been the Sabbath since creation. The Sabbath lost its significance at the fall.... God first worked six days in creating this world, and only when His work was perfect and finished did He rest from all His work [Genesis 2:1-3]. Adam and Eve, on the other hand, did not begin by working but resting on God’s Sabbath, which was their first whole day, and then followed it with six days of work. The significance and importance of this distinction is that mankind, in Adam, began by first receiving God’s handiwork as an entirely free gift, and then only could they enjoy it during the rest of the week. In setting aside or sanctification the Sabbath [Genesis 2:3], God was entering into an everlasting covenant relationship with man — that he was always to be God-dependent. Hence, when Adam sinned and turned from God-dependence to self-dependence, he actually broke this God-dependent covenant, symbolized by the Sabbath. The result was: “In the sweat of thy face shall thou eat bread” [Genesis 3:19]. Quote
Robert Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Jack Sequeira, who is a retired SDA Pastor, credentialed by the SDA Church, has the following to say: The fall destroyed the Sabbath’s significance, since sin is turning from God-dependence to self-dependence. Isa. 59:2 says that your sin separates you from God. Gen. 3:19 is a good text. What did God say to Adam after he fell? From now onward you will eat your bread by the sweat of your brow. Before that, God worked for Adam. When you read about the Garden of Eden, it says it was God who planted the garden for Adam. Now God says, From now onward you will eat your bread by the sweat of your brow. That means, “You will have no rest.” So the fall destroyed the significance of the Sabbath. Quote
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 100% Pure HERECY. That in no way did away with the Sabbath. And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God. Eze 20:20 Quote
Robert Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 100% Pure HERECY. That in no way did away with the Sabbath. Quote
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Oh Please! I don't care what serequel says, You're both Heretics Quote
Robert Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Quote: Quote: And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God. Eze 20:20 Old Covenant.... How do I know? Context: 10 Therefore I led them out of Egypt and brought them into the desert. 11 I gave them my decrees and made known to them my laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. That's "obey and live" They did not follow my decrees but rejected my laws--although the man who obeys them will live by them--and they utterly desecrated my Sabbaths. So I said I would pour out my wrath on them and destroy them in the desert. That's "disobey and die" Like I said, "Old Covenant" Compare to EGW: The terms of the “old covenant” were, Obey and live: “If a man do, he shall even live in them” (Eze. 20:11; Lev. 18:5); but “cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them.” Deut. 27:26. Quote
Robert Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Oh Please! I don't care what serequel says, You're both Heretics And you are frigging legalist under the OC....You're messed up in the head....You're nothing more than a modern day Judazer who pushes his self-righteousness on others so that you may glory in their performance.... Quote
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Is Revelation old covenant? There's the Sabbath right there. And the prophet you've outgrown! Quote
Moderators John317 Posted August 12, 2009 Moderators Posted August 12, 2009 The Sabbath lost its significance at the fall.... Actually the Sabbath took on even greater significance after the Fall because mankind needed rest more AFTER sin than before the Fall. We need that connection with God every week. It's both a physical and a spiritual rest, a weekly reminder of who He is, and a symbol that He is the God who sanctifies us. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Oh Please! I don't care what [sequeira] says, You're both Heretics gal 5:12 Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13 Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. The same is true of the Sabbath as presented by most SDA: If Paul were alive today he would say, 12 Those [Adventists] who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to [keep the sabbath]. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13 Not even those who [keep the sabbath] obey the law, yet they want you to [keep the sabbath] that they may boast about your flesh. Quote
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 An Originally Posted By: Robert The Sabbath lost its significance at the fall.... Actually the Sabbath took on even greater significance after the Fall because mankind needed rest more AFTER sin than before the Fall. We need that connection with God every week. It's both a physical and a spiritual rest, a weekly reminder of who He is, and a symbol that He is the God who sanctifies us. And it's a sign that shows who you serve. Quote
Robert Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Is Revelation old covenant? There's the Sabbath right there. And the prophet you've outgrown! Nothing about the Sabbath....In the NT the whole law is defined by the last six.... Quote
Moderators John317 Posted August 12, 2009 Moderators Posted August 12, 2009 As moderator: Please no name-calling, gentlemen. You may call each other's arguments or theology heresy, but we have to draw the line here about calling each other names, even heretics or legalists, etc. Otherwise the conversation can become a competition to see who can use those words most often. We've been down that road before. I will edit all name-calling from this point on. Suggestion: rather than call each other heretics or legalists, refer to each other's theologies as "heresy" or "legalistic", etc. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Is Revelation old covenant? There's the Sabbath right there. And the prophet you've outgrown! Nothing about the Sabbath....In the NT the whole law is defined by the last six.... Did serequell tell you that, because it's not in the Bible. Quote
Robert Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert The Sabbath lost its significance at the fall.... Actually the Sabbath took on even greater significance after the Fall because mankind needed rest more AFTER sin than before the Fall. We need that connection with God every week. It's both a physical and a spiritual rest, a weekly reminder of who He is, and a symbol that He is the God who sanctifies us. The Sabbath has nothing to do with physical rest....This is speculation....I don't need the Sabbath to remind me of God...We should be with Him everyday, not just the 7th....Act like a devil all week and then put on your sabbath face, huh? Again, supposition....You must look at why God initially set aside the Sabbath and go from there....SDA have done to the Sabbath what the Judaizers did to circumcision. Quote
Robert Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert Nothing about the Sabbath....In the NT the whole law is defined by the last six....[/quote'] Did serequell tell you that, because it's not in the Bible. Gal 5:14 The whole law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Quote
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 You must look at why God initially set aside the Sabbath and go from there God said it was to be a sign between him and his people. Quote
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 If you think that does away with half of God's law you're deluded by the sundaykeepers and ex-SDA heretics. Quote
Robert Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Gal 5:14 The whole law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." He who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law . Now what is " the law "? 9 The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love [agape] your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law . -BC- COL -TI- Christ's Object Lessons -CN- 27 -CT- Who is My Neighbour? -PR- 01 -PG- 385 Wherever there is an impulse of love [agape] and sympathy, wherever the heart reaches out to bless and uplift others, there is revealed the working of God’s Holy Spirit. In the depths of heathenism, men who have had no knowledge of the written law of God, who have never even heard the name of Christ, have been kind to His servants, protecting them at the risk of their own lives. Their acts show the working of a divine power. The Holy Spirit has implanted the grace of Christ in the heart of the savage, quickening his sympathies contrary to his nature, contrary to his education. The “Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world” (John 1:9), is shining in his soul; and this light, if heeded, will guide his feet to the kingdom of God. No Sabbath...just faith in God resulting in agape.... Quote
Robert Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert You must look at why God initially set aside the Sabbath and go from there God said it was to be a sign between him and his people. Go back to the beginning....You are getting into OC issues with Israel....Go to Genesis and tell me why God rested.... Quote
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