When Christ's character shall be perfectly reproduced in his people...

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Robert

so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

... 11 I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

So yours is a gospel of condemnation then?

Mark :-)

[LifeHiscost]

Can I start quoting you?

It can be trying. Keep the faith!

Blessings!

[Robert]

It does appear, Robert, you relish greatly the duty you have of placing others under a curse.

No, you guys place yourselves under the curse because you have legalistic message....

[Robert]

Here I agree with EGW:

-BC- PK

-TI- Prophets and Kings

-CN- 47

-CT- Joshua and the Angel

-PR- 02

-PG- 588

The tempter stands by to accuse them, as he stood by to resist Joshua. He points to their filthy garments, their defective characters. He presents their weakness and folly, their sins of ingratitude, their unlikeness to Christ, which has dishonored their Redeemer. He endeavors to affright them with the thought that their case is hopeless, that the stain of their defilement will never be washed away. He hopes so to destroy their faith that they will yield to his temptations, and turn from their allegiance to God.

"Are these," he says, "the people who are to take my place in heaven, and the place of the angels who united with me? They profess to obey the law of God; but have they kept its precepts? Have they not been lovers of self more than lovers of God? Have they not placed their own interests above His service? Have they not loved the things of the world? Look at the sins that have marked their lives. Behold their selfishness, their malice, their hatred of one another. Will God banish me and my angels from His presence, and yet reward those who have been guilty of the same sins? Thou canst not do this, O Lord, in justice. Justice demands that sentence be pronounced against them."

But while the followers of Christ have sinned, they have not given themselves up to be controlled by the satanic agencies. They have repented of their sins and have sought the Lord in humility and contrition, and the divine Advocate pleads in their behalf. He who has been most abused by their ingratitude, who knows their sin and also their penitence, declares: “The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan. I gave My life for these souls. They are graven upon the palms of My hands. They may have imperfections of character; they may have failed in their endeavors; but they have repented, and I have forgiven and accepted them.”

[oldsailor29]

We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed. [CW 37]

Thank you Robert. I knew I had read this somewhere. So I looked again in "Counsels to Writers and Editors" and there it is. Clear as day it says the Bible is not infallible. It says "God and Heaven alone are infallible." The Bible is neither. It seems to me we need to look at the statements which we use, saying the Bible is infallible, and try to determine the true meaning which many have missed.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed. [CW 37]

Clear as day it says the Bible is not infallible.

Well, I don't know about that....Yes, there are translation issues...but I would say the Bible is the infallible source of truth.

That being said, I don't believe EGW had the Bible in mind. She said "we" (the SDA church, which included EGW) has many things to unlearn and many things to learn. She's not talking about the Bible here.

[Musicman1228]

On points I'll give this one to Oldsailor over Robert. What EGW said is quite plain; New Truth is out there, and in some cases in order to understand it we will need to get rid of old truth. Those that say that New Truth will never supplant old truth have not read this quote from EGW. Given her use of the word 'many' we will have twice as much old truth to get rid of as new truth to find.

[Dr. Rich]

Musicman, this would then agree with the 'triming of the wicks' the ten bride's maids will have to do.

It reminds me of a story about someone trapped on a cliff holding on to a tree and praying that someone would rescue him. Someone threw him a rope and said he must let go of the tree to grab the rope, but the guy couldn't do that and was toast.

The last of the 7 messages to the KOH in Rev. 3 have the same problem. They can't let go of their spiritual fake wealth to purchase truth that has been tried by placing "The Bible On Trial".

[LifeHiscost]

but I would say the Bible is the infallible source of truth.

As opposed to "but I would say the Bible is a primary source of infallible truth."

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

No, you guys place yourselves under the curse because you have legalistic message....

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

Regards!

[Musicman1228]

No Robert,

I have not placed myself under a curse because I have a legalistic message, it is because I love the gospel of the Kingdom and try to obey the Covenant of that gospel that Paul (and his worshipers) has placed me under a curse. That is because I believe a gospel other than the one that he (Paul) preaches.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. Gal.1:8.

Do you like Paul also curse me for believing a gospel other than Paul's?

[Guest]

I can't speak for Robert, but I think he would, yes.

[Robert]

Do you like Paul also curse me for believing a gospel other than Paul's?

It's not that Paul curses you...it's the law that curses you:

For as many as are of the works of the law [salvation by your law keeping] are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." [Gal 3:10

The gospel of Christ, given to Paul, is that "in Christ Jesus" I stand complete now and in the judgment. That's the gospel in a nutshell. All other gospels are perverted with salvation by works in varying degrees. To accept anything but the gospel given to Paul is placing yourself under the curse! Why? Because unless you keep the law as Christ did then you are cursed.

[BobRyan]

Do you like Paul also curse me for believing a gospel other than Paul's?

2 Peter 1:21 says that the way we get scripture is "holy men of old moved by the Holy Spirit - spoke from God".

That is what Paul is doing in Gal 1:6-11 when he says "though WE or an Angel from heaven should preach to you a differen Gospel - let him be accursed".

If you have decided to place yourself in the role of one who preaches a different Gospel -- then you need to look to that matter yourself. No one here can step and in save you from the fact that scripture warns us all not to do what you are doing.

It is what it is.

As Christians we are never to down-size or artifically-sweeten the warning of scripture. God put them there for a reason.

in Christ,

Bob

[Guest]

Preach Bob

[skyblue888]

To be "in Christ" means to keep the law as He kept it, to overcome as He overcame. That is the aim, the standard. If we fall, He is our Advocate who is faithful to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Forgetting what is behind, through faith in the merits of Christ we may go from grace to grace and from victory to victory. To be "in Christ" means, "His experience is to be ours." D.A.363.

"In Christ dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. This is why, although He was tempted in all points like as we are, He stood before the world, from His first entrance into it, untainted by corruption, though surrounded by it. Are we not also to become partakers of that fullness, and is it not thus, and thus only, that we can overcome as He overcame?" E.G. White, MS 16,1890 or Bible Commentary, Vol.7a,351.

This is a direct commentary upon Col.2:9,10: "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily and you are complete in Him who is the Head of all principality and power."

The Holy Spirit through the apostle Paul prayed that Christ may dwell in our hearts by faith that we might be filled with all the fullness of God! see Eph.3:14-19.

Our Lord Himself has given the command: "Be filled with the Spirit." Eph.5:18. This is the law and the prophets. This command is a promise, an exceedingly great and precious promise since every command that proceeds out of the mouth of God, through the merits of Christ, is a promise of its own fulfilment for "He speaks and it is done" if we receive the word in faith. Every precept in the law of God is a promise by which we may become partakers of the divine nature.

Here is another command which is the whole law and the prophets: "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus." Phil.2:5. If we receive the word in faith, "We have the mind of Christ." 1 Cor.2:16. This mind in us will produce the same character and manifest the same works as it did in Jesus of Nazareth. See M.B.78.

In the beginning He said, "Let there be light! And there was light!" He spoke and it was done! Now He says to us, "Let the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ shine in the darkened void of your heart." 2 Cor.4:6. It is so as we rest in the merits of Christ for its accomplishment. And the light of life which is thus receive is in like manner sustained, by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. See Matt.4:4.

This is righteousness by faith according to righteousness for "All the words of His mouth are with righteousness." Prov.8:8.

And "Righteousness is love and love is the light and the life of God." M.B.18.

sky

[Robert]

To be "in Christ" means to keep the law as He kept it, to overcome as He overcame.

Pure heresy.....You have perverted the gospel....

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

So you really know more about the sanctuary than EGW? And to think, I've got all those books, and cd rom and what not.Can I start quoting you?

As to EGW:

Do not think that, because we have a glimmer of the light of God, that we have it all.--Ms. 3, 1889, pp. 1-3. (Morning Talk at Ottawa, Kansas, May 14, 1889.)

The question has been asked me, "Do you think that the Lord has any more light for us as a people?" I answer that He has light that is new to us, and yet it is precious old light that is to shine forth from the Word of truth [the Bible]. We have only the glimmerings of the rays of the light that is yet to come to us. [1SM 401]

We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed. [CW 37]

And you think this quote excuses error?

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Here I agree with EGW:

-BC- PK

-TI- Prophets and Kings

-CN- 47

-CT- Joshua and the Angel

-PR- 02

-PG- 588

The tempter stands by to accuse them, as he stood by to resist Joshua. He points to their filthy garments, their defective characters. He presents their weakness and folly, their sins of ingratitude, their unlikeness to Christ, which has dishonored their Redeemer. He endeavors to affright them with the thought that their case is hopeless, that the stain of their defilement will never be washed away. He hopes so to destroy their faith that they will yield to his temptations, and turn from their allegiance to God.

"Are these," he says, "the people who are to take my place in heaven, and the place of the angels who united with me? They profess to obey the law of God; but have they kept its precepts? Have they not been lovers of self more than lovers of God? Have they not placed their own interests above His service? Have they not loved the things of the world? Look at the sins that have marked their lives. Behold their selfishness, their malice, their hatred of one another. Will God banish me and my angels from His presence, and yet reward those who have been guilty of the same sins? Thou canst not do this, O Lord, in justice. Justice demands that sentence be pronounced against them."

But while the followers of Christ have sinned, they have not given themselves up to be controlled by the satanic agencies. They have repented of their sins and have sought the Lord in humility and contrition, and the divine Advocate pleads in their behalf. He who has been most abused by their ingratitude, who knows their sin and also their penitence, declares: “The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan. I gave My life for these souls. They are graven upon the palms of My hands. They may have imperfections of character; they may have failed in their endeavors; but they have repented, and I have forgiven and accepted them.”

Here I agree with EGW

Hmmmmm........

Are there any other "viewpoints" of Ellen White, that you accept as inspired?

If you could provide a list for us all, so we know which you accept and which you avoid perhaps?

I have a quote for you later, I will start a new thread with it if I remember...

Mark :-)

[Woody]

Here I agree with EGW:

-BC- PK

-TI- Prophets and Kings

-CN- 47

-CT- Joshua and the Angel

-PR- 02

-PG- 588

The tempter stands by to accuse them, as he stood by to resist Joshua. He points to their filthy garments, their defective characters. He presents their weakness and folly, their sins of ingratitude, their unlikeness to Christ, which has dishonored their Redeemer. He endeavors to affright them with the thought that their case is hopeless, that the stain of their defilement will never be washed away. He hopes so to destroy their faith that they will yield to his temptations, and turn from their allegiance to God.

"Are these," he says, "the people who are to take my place in heaven, and the place of the angels who united with me? They profess to obey the law of God; but have they kept its precepts? Have they not been lovers of self more than lovers of God? Have they not placed their own interests above His service? Have they not loved the things of the world? Look at the sins that have marked their lives. Behold their selfishness, their malice, their hatred of one another. Will God banish me and my angels from His presence, and yet reward those who have been guilty of the same sins? Thou canst not do this, O Lord, in justice. Justice demands that sentence be pronounced against them."

But while the followers of Christ have sinned, they have not given themselves up to be controlled by the satanic agencies. They have repented of their sins and have sought the Lord in humility and contrition, and the divine Advocate pleads in their behalf. He who has been most abused by their ingratitude, who knows their sin and also their penitence, declares: “The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan. I gave My life for these souls. They are graven upon the palms of My hands. They may have imperfections of character; they may have failed in their endeavors; but they have repented, and I have forgiven and accepted them.”

[skyblue888]

"In Christ dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. This is why, although He was tempted in all points like as we are, He stood before the world, from His first entrance into it, untainted by corruption, though surrounded by it. Are we not also to become partakers of that fullness, and is it not thus, and thus only, that we can overcome as He overcame?" E.G. White, MS 16,1890 or Bible Commentary, Vol.7a,351.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

To be "in Christ" means to keep the law as He kept it, to overcome as He overcame.

Pure heresy.....You have perverted the gospel....

Who says?

"To him who overcomes, I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." Rev.3:21.

Is Jesus also a heretic?

[skyblue888]

"As many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them taht believe on His name." John 1:12. This power is not in the human agent. It is the power of God. When a soul receives Christ, he receives power to live the life of Christ. God requires perfection from His children. His law is a transcript of His character, and it is the standard of all character. This infinite standard is presented to all that there may be no mistake in regard to the kind of people whom God will have to compose His Kingdom. The life of Christ on earth was a perfect expression of God's law." C.O.L.314,315.

"Many who call themselves Christians are mere human moralists. They have refused the gift which alone could enable them to honor Christ by representing Him to the world. The work of the Holy Spirit is to them a strange work. They are not doers of the word. The heavenly principles that distinguish those who are one with Christ from those who are one with the world have become almost indistinguishable. The professed followers of Christ are no longer a separate and peculiar people. The line of demarcation is indistinct. The people are subordinating themselves to the world. The church has gone over to the world in transgression of the law, when the world should have come over to the church in obedience to the law. Daily the church is being converted to the world." C.O.L.315,316.

[Woody]

Quote:

"They are not doers of the word."

I hope you don't mind ... but may I ask .... are you a "doer of the word" ?

[Twilight]

"As many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them taht believe on His name." John 1:12. This power is not in the human agent. It is the power of God. When a soul receives Christ, he receives power to live the life of Christ. God requires perfection from His children. His law is a transcript of His character, and it is the standard of all character. This infinite standard is presented to all that there may be no mistake in regard to the kind of people whom God will have to compose His Kingdom. The life of Christ on earth was a perfect expression of God's law." C.O.L.314,315.

"Many who call themselves Christians are mere human moralists. They have refused the gift which alone could enable them to honor Christ by representing Him to the world. The work of the Holy Spirit is to them a strange work. They are not doers of the word. The heavenly principles that distinguish those who are one with Christ from those who are one with the world have become almost indistinguishable. The professed followers of Christ are no longer a separate and peculiar people. The line of demarcation is indistinct. The people are subordinating themselves to the world. The church has gone over to the world in transgression of the law, when the world should have come over to the church in obedience to the law. Daily the church is being converted to the world." C.O.L.315,316.

God requires perfection from His children.

How this must grate on the minds of those that believe in a spurious sanctification!

Mark