Dr. Rich Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 But sky--when you call the 'other side' an "enemy", have not you just lowered yourself to the same tactic? Quote
skyblue888 Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 im just saying that the enemy always uses the same tactics, calling you names instead of dealing with the issues,, if he cannot gainsay you, he character assassinates you did not Paul expose babblers and deceivers openly? Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Moderators John317 Posted August 13, 2009 Moderators Posted August 13, 2009 Is this about Jesus? Did or does Jesus have offspring? I don't think so. Yes, Isaiah 53 is about Jesus Christ. See John 12: 38; Matt. 8: 17; 1 Peter 2: 22. Jesus Christ is the Suffering Servant of Is. 53. Jesus has many spiritual offspring. The prophecy of Isaiah 9: 6 refers to Him as "everlasting Father," signifying that Christ would have many spiritual children. (They are obviously not biological, literal progeny.) Remember that 1 John 3: 1, 2 calls us "children of God," referring to His spiritual children. We become children of God through being born of God by placing our faith and trust in Jesus. 1 John 3: 9, 10; 5: 1-5. cf Gal. 3: 26, 29; 4:7; Romans 8: 14-17; 9:8. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
skyblue888 Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 John, have you ever considered that through the merits of Christ we become "sons of God" in a different way than Adam was in his perfect manhood or the angels who have never sinned? sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Moderators John317 Posted August 13, 2009 Moderators Posted August 13, 2009 Didn't Christ's death for us elevate us to an even higher status or value as "sons of God" than humanity would have had if Adam hadn't sinned? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Guest Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Yes, you got that right Twilight! Here is the sad thing, most christians believe the way Robert does. As you two have pointed out, there are clearly two seperate gospels. Robert cursed those who believe in Jesus' gospel just as he chastized Peter in front of everyone. If they want to believe the way they do, why is it that they have to try to force their belief upon everyone else? Jesus did not force his gospel on anyone. He gave them a choice--either abide in me by obeying what I have said or not. Isn't this the character of Christ that we should mirror? Well said Dr. Rich Quote
skyblue888 Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Still sons of God but in a different sense, yes! "Christ places His own merits upon man and thus elevates him in the scales of moral value with God." Our Father Cares, p.121. "By virtue of His merits He gives us power to become members of the Royal Family, children of the Heavenly King." Our Father Cares, p.120. The Queen of England has ministers working for her but they are not members of the Royal Family. The angels are ministers working for God but they are not members of the Royal Family. Christ became one flesh with us that we might become one Spirit with Him. The first Adam was from the earth but the Second Adam is the Lord from Heaven! 1 Cor.15:44-47. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Guest Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Didn't Christ's death for us elevate us to an even higher status or value as "sons of God" than humanity would have had if Adam hadn't sinned? I know we are sons & daughters by adoption, but how does that give us higher status? Quote
Moderators John317 Posted August 13, 2009 Moderators Posted August 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 Didn't Christ's death for us elevate us to an even higher status or value as "sons of God" than humanity would have had if Adam hadn't sinned? I know it's by adoption, but how does that give us higher status? Because God views us and loves us as He does Jesus Christ. It raises us to the same status as the Son of God, who created the world. Incredible as it seems, in heaven and on the new earth we will be closer to Christ than the angels. He is our elder brother. Jesus can't have that relationship with the angels or with any other beings that He created. When the Father gave His Son, He gave Him forever, because Christ will never again be in the form of God. Christ gave that up forever and took the form of humanity. So the Father lost a Son when He gave Him for us, yet at the same time, God the Father gained many millions of other sons. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Twilight Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook I know it's by adoption' date=' but how does that give us higher status?[/quote'] Because God views us and loves us as He does Jesus Christ. It raises us to the same status as the Son of God, who created the world. Incredible as it seems, in heaven and on the new earth we will be closer to Christ than the angels. He is our elder brother. Jesus can't have that relationship with the angels or with any other beings that He created. When the Father gave His Son, He gave Him forever, because Christ will never again be in the form of God. Christ gave that up forever and took the form of humanity. So the Father lost a Son when He gave Him for us, yet at the same time, God the Father gained many millions of other sons. Indeed, which is why we need to be partakers of the Divine Nature now. :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Moderators John317 Posted August 13, 2009 Moderators Posted August 13, 2009 Indeed, which is why we need to be partakers of the Divine Nature now. :-) Agree. 2 Peter 1: 3, 4-- His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. cf. Eph. 3: 19-- "to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God." Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Twilight Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Twilight Indeed, which is why we need to be partakers of the Divine Nature now. :-) Agree. 2 Peter 1: 3, 4-- His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. cf. Eph. 3: 19-- "to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God." One of my favourites... :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 I would be happy to be a doorkeeper. But He wants you to be His Son... Consider this verse: (This verse follows the descriptive vision that explains "Righteousness by Faith", it is the direct command to enter into sanctification after we have been justified): Zec 3:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by. Consider also this: 1Jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. Precious promises... Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 I like that Me too... What wonderful love. That He would take a sinner like me, pay the ransom for my soul. Adopt me into His family. Give me a role in the "government" of His Universe. Wow... Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook I would be happy to be a doorkeeper. But He wants you to be His Son... Consider this verse: (This verse follows the descriptive vision that explains "Righteousness by Faith", it is the direct command to enter into sanctification after we have been justified): Zec 3:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by. Consider also this: 1Jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. Precious promises... Mark :-) Here is the sanctification and obedience part from the above text: If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge,(Zech 3:7) :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Guest Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 It's mind boggling when you think about it. Quote
Twilight Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 It's mind boggling when you think about it. It cannot but inspire love... Because it is such an outpouring of love, a love that passes beyond our understanding. :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Musicman1228 Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 If Jesus Christ is our elder brother that means we are His siblings. We know who our Father is, who then is our Mother? From whom are we to be born again? Quote
Guest Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 The Holy Spirit is not female MM. John317 already proved this once. Quote
Twilight Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 If Jesus Christ is our elder brother that means we are His siblings. We know who our Father is, who then is our Mother? From whom are we to be born again? The pagans teach there is a "mother earth", but I am not aware of any text in the bible that equates any part of the Godhead with "motherhood"... The catholics also have the Virgin Mary to fill this need, but I am not aware we have the same need as Adventists... Mark Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
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