"Released from the Law"

[John317]

The tree of learning was for good and evil. Therefore, by implication, Adam did not know good and could not have been made righteous. Yes, until he ate from the tree, he was doing what God told him to do and could be called righteous. But for how long did this go on, we don't know.

Adam was made righteous just like Lucifer and all the angels were created righteous. All Adam knew at that point was good. He did not know evil and God did not want him to know evil.

By the way, the Mormons believe it was God's plan for Adam and Eve to Fall and learn what evil and death is. They believe God lied and Satan told the truth.

[John317]

This thread is about the law. My point here is that Adam was not placed into the garden without a law. Yes, it was simple, but one that he could have done. It was not impossible for him to do, as God never commands us to do anything that is impossible. The ten commandments were not impossible to keep.

Of course they were not impossible for Adam and Eve to keep BEFORE the Fall. That is not the question, is it? I don't know of anyone who believes Adam could not obey the moral law of God.

But that is far different from fallen humans keeping the law perfectly. We cannot possibly keep the law of God without God's supplying us the new nature (His seed) and the power through the Holy Spirit. Remember that the law is spiritual and reads even the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Study closely 1 John 1: 5-10 and 2: 1-6. Those verses will apply until the Second Coming, don't you agree?

Through the Holy Spirit, believers are enabled to resist all temptations to sin, and we are also empowered to overcome all known sin in our lives, but this is a process and does not take place all at once. The Holy Spirit does not convict us of all sin at one time. We can be thankful for that, can't we.

[wayfinder]

John317,

I have search and research the meaning of the sentence in Genesis 2:17 and it is "you will be put to death, the dying you will die came much later. Adam and Eve were mortal beings, they were made from dust. The only explanation for the placement of the Tree of Life in the garden was for this reason; as long as Adam and Eve obeyed God they would have access to the Tree of Life and would never die. The conversation that takes place about the status of Adam and Eve after disobedience is, if We leave them in the garden they will live forever, because they would have access to the Tree of Life. They were cast out of the garden and Cherubs stationed along with a "flaming sword" (laser?) at the entrance so they could not enter.

3:22 And God said, Behold, Adam is become as one of us, to know good and evil, and now lest at any time he stretch forth his hand, and take of the tree of life and eat, and [so] he shall live forever--

Why would God say this if Adam and Eve were immortal? God does not even imply that this is the death caused by eating from the tree. God says that it is eating from the Tree of Life so he shall live forever. It is my belief that the reason Lucifer has not died is because he was created immortal and cannot die nor be killed, only God may take his life, which is what we are told happens at the end of the thousand years. After the sealing of the kingdom, the people of God are made spiritual beings and therefore immortal, like the angels. The Tree of Life is for the nations, in the earth made new.

Mt 22:30

"For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Mr 12:25

"For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Re 22:2

in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

[Dr. Rich]

What I meant to say John, is that Adam and Eve only had one simple law to obey and that not to touch or eat from the tree of learning good and evil. Period! That was the only law!

If my memory is correct, it was the people who first wanted to see in writing what God wanted them to obey. They already knew about the Sabbath so that probably knew about the other things before they were written down.

So, I think the small difference is our understanding in what comes first? Seeking truth and doing right, or the Holy Spirit comes to you while you are still evil? I think we do agree that without the help of the Holy Spirit, we can't be born again by the Holy Spirit. So yes, one would first have to believe in the words of Jesus before they could seek truth and do right.

[Guest]

What about those who are seeking truth when they discover Jesus?

[Dr. Rich]

Yep, them too!

[Guest]

So yes, one would first have to believe in the words of Jesus before they could seek truth and do right.

What about those who are seeking truth when they discover Jesus?

[Robert]

"Job's professed friends were misrable comforters, making his case more bitter and unbearable, and Job was not guilty as they supposed." T.M.350.

Not guilty of outward sins, but nevertheless guilty of self-righteousness that Elihu charged him with....

Paul, before he was converted, was much like Job:

Paul says that as “touching the righteousness which is in the law”—as far as outward acts were concerned --he was “blameless” (Philippians 3:6); but when the spiritual character of the law was discerned, he saw himself a sinner. Judged by the letter of the law as men apply it to the outward life, he had abstained from sin; but when he looked into the depths of its holy precepts, and saw himself as God saw him, he bowed in humiliation and confessed his guilt" [EGW]

Now look at Job's life:

When Job heard the voice of the Lord out of the whirlwind, he exclaimed: “I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.” Job 42:6....There can be no self-exaltation, no boastful claim to freedom from sin, on the part of those who walk in the shadow of Calvary’s cross." [EGW]

Clearly Job claimed he was blameless, but later he found out that even his thoughts...his motives must be perfect. When He saw God He saw the spirituality of the law incarnate!

It is then that Job repented of his boastful words. Like Paul, Job, as far as outward acts were concerned --he [thought that he] was “blameless”; but when the spiritual character of the law was discerned, he saw himself a sinner.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: John317

Their experience will be like Job's.

I don't think you realize your inference. Job's problem was self-righteousness....The Laodicean Church, which EGW compares to the SDA denomination, has to give up her self-righteousness before the gospel can be fully restored. Those who refuse to repent will be shaken out....They will join Babylon (a symbol of all apostate religions who perpetuates all false gospels).

You keep repeating the same nonsense!!! Repeating a lie will not turn it into truth!!! Your boldness in making God a liar astounds me! Are you not saying God does not tell the truth??? Of Job, GOD SAID:

" And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” Job 1:8 ESV. In fact, God repeated it!

"And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason.” Job 2:3 ESV.

You are down on sin which is transgression of the law. That's very commendable. But whenever anyone starts talking obedience to that law, you reflexively club them with the charge of legalism!!! Anti-sin but also anti-righteous living?

[Woody]

Rob. You make some very valid points. There is far more to being "blameless" than being outwardly blameless.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: John317

Yes, what you say about Job is very true. He was a righteous but not a self-righteous man.

Of course I disagree....Don't forget the 4th man, Elihu....But I'm sure you don't want to go down that road....It will take us off subject....

it doesn't matter what the fourth man said,

In Ezekiel 14:14 he is mentioned among the righteous few. "Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness, says the Lord." Of course "their righteousness" was the Lord's as it is written, "Their righteousness is of Me, says the Lord." Isa.54:17.

"You have heard of the perseverance of Job..." James 5:11.

"They could understand the mystery of His mission no more than the friends of Job could understand his humiliation and suffering." D.A.88.

"Job's professed friends were misrable comforters, making his case more bitter and unbearable, and Job was not guilty as they supposed." T.M.350.

"There is wickedness in our world, but all the suffering is not the result of a perverted course of life. Job is brought distinctly before us as a man whom the Lord allowed Satan to afflict. The enemy stripped him of all he possessed; his family ties were broken; his children were taken from him. For a time his body was covered with loathsome sores, and he suffered greatly. His friends came to confort him, but they tried to make him see that he was responsible, by his sinful course, for his afflictions. But he defended himself, and denied the charge, declaring, Miserable comforters are ye all. By seeking to make him guilty before God, and deserving of His punishments, they brought a grievous test upon him, and represented God in a false light; but Job did not swerve from his loyalty, and God rewarded His faithful servant." E.G. White, MS 22,1898.

sky

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Of course I disagree....Don't forget the 4th man, Elihu....But I'm sure you don't want to go down that road....It will take us off subject.... [/quote']

it doesn't matter what the fourth man said,

AMEN!!! Whose testimony shall we believe? The words of Elihu? Or the testimony of Ezekiel, James, and most importantly, God's?

Robert seems to take Elihu's over the testimony of THREE witnesses!

[John317]

Actually it appears that God simply ignores Elihu, perhaps because he didn't really add anything of importance and because he was so young. It's as if God simply overlooks Elihu's youth and immaturity.

In fact, if you study the book of Job as literature, you will read some people who believe that the character of Elihu was added after the rest of the book was finished. Why? Because, in several ways, he seems out of place. He doesn't appear or speak at any other time and is as if invisible until near the end. He uses some of the same language and ideas that God uses later in the last few chapters. And as already said, God says neither good nor bad about him, almost as if Elihu doesn't matter, or is an afterthought. Also, if you skip chapters 32-37, you will see that you don't have a feeling of having missed anything essential in the story.

Notice that chapter 31 ends with the words, "The words of Job are ended."

Then jump to chapter 38 which begins, "Then the Lord answered Job...." It says nothing at all about Elihu, who has just finished a long defense of God.

Instead God says, "Who is this who darkens counsel by words without knowledge?"

Some interpret this to be God's response to what Elihu has just said, but it is most likely a response to Job's words in chapters 26 to 31.

God's only criticism of Job is that, in the midst of his great suffering, Job spoke of things that he had no personal knowledge or experience in. But despite this-- and in contrast to Job's three "friends,"-- God says that Job has spoken of Him what is right. And Elihu? The reader is left to guess why God says nothing either good or ill about him.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

AMEN!!! Whose testimony shall we believe? The words of Elihu? Or the testimony of Ezekiel, James, and most importantly, God's?

Robert seems to take Elihu's over the testimony of THREE witnesses!

Exactly!

[skyblue888]

Actually it appears that God simply ignores Elihu, perhaps because he didn't really add anything of importance and because he was so young. It's as if God simply overlooks Elihu's youth and immaturity.

In fact, if you study the book of Job as literature, you will read some people who believe that the character of Elihu was added after the rest of the book was finished. Why? Because, in several ways, he seems out of place. He doesn't appear or speak at any other time and is as if invisible until near the end. He uses some of the same language and ideas that God uses later in the last few chapters. And as already said, God says neither good nor bad about him, almost as if Elihu doesn't matter, or is an afterthought. Also, if you skip chapters 32-37, you will see that you don't have a feeling of having missed anything essential in the story.

Notice that chapter 31 ends with the words, "The words of Job are ended."

Then jump to chapter 38 which begins, "Then the Lord answered Job...." It says nothing at all about Elihu, who has just finished a long defense of God.

Instead God says, "Who is this who darkens counsel by words without knowledge?"

Some interpret this to be God's response to what Elihu has just said, but it is most likely a response to Job's words in chapters 26 to 31.

God's only criticism of Job is that, in the midst of his great suffering, Job spoke of things that he had no personal knowledge or experience in. But despite this-- and in contrast to Job's three "friends,"-- God says that Job has spoken of Him what is right. And Elihu? The reader is left to guess why God says nothing either good or ill about him.

Interesting! I am tempted to post a study on Job. You may have read it before. I posted it a long time ago. Remember it?

[Robert]

Are you not saying God does not tell the truth??? Of Job, GOD SAID:

" And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” Job 1:8 ESV.

Keep in mind a statement from EGW: "We may have flattered ourselves, as did Nicodemus, that our life has been upright, that our moral character is correct, and think that we need not humble the heart before God, like the common sinner: but when the light from Christ shines into our souls [when we meet God face to face, as it were], we shall see how impure we are; [why?] we shall discern the selfishness of motive, the enmity against God, that has defiled every act of life. [sC 28]

You see you can do the right thing outwardly, but if the motive is self-centered it "defiles" the act. Let's use an example found in the Bible:

1 Cor 13:3 3 If I give everything I own to the poor...but I don't love [agape], I've gotten nowhere. So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I'm bankrupt without love [agape]."

In the above example Paul is stating that if he gives all his goods to the poor, but he does it for self-centered reasons, the act (although outwardly it is good) is bankrupt of true righteousness because only "agape" fulfills the law.

So if I give away all my possessions to the poor, outwardly I look like a righteous Joe, but if I'm doing it in order to get the applause of folks...or to get my name in the paper, etc, etc, my selfishness has (in heaven's eyes) defiled the act. It is filthy rags. So you can keep the law outwardly, but unless your motives are selfless you have broken the spirit of the law.

Ellen White agrees: "....As far as outward acts were concerned --he [saul] was “blameless” (Philippians 3:6); but when the spiritual character of the law was discerned, he saw himself a sinner."

Now, with this in mind, let's look at the dialog between God and Satan in Job chapter one:

Job 1:3 [Job] had seven sons and three daughters. 3 He was also very wealthy - seven thousand head of sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred teams of oxen, five hundred donkeys, and a huge staff of servants - the most influential man in all the East....8 God said to Satan, "Have you noticed my friend Job?....9 Satan retorted, "So do you think Job does all that out of the sheer goodness of his heart? [In other words do you think Job is doing it for selfless reasons?] 10 Why, no one ever had it so good! You pamper him like a pet, make sure nothing bad ever happens to him or his family or his possessions, bless everything he does - he can't lose! 11 "But what do you think would happen if you reached down and took away everything that is his? He'd curse you right to your face, that's what." 12 God replied, "We'll see. Go ahead - do what you want with all that is his. Just don't hurt him." Then Satan left the presence of God.

Now it is true that Job didn't turn his back on God....He didn't curse Him, like his wife. But did Job have a problem? And the answer to that is yes!

Job thought a lot of his righteousness. And yes, outwardly he was a righteous man, but at the motive level all Job did was for self-centered reasons. He did the right thing outwardly because he had great wealth.

Well, he ended up losing it all....But in the end, after God revealed to Job his problem, it was all restored. Then Job served God, not to keep his goodies, but because he had learned a lesson. And that lesson is there's none righteous except one, that is, God.

In the end Job repented of his self-righteous attitude and so God blessed him and returned to him his wealth.

Rob

[Robert]

Actually it appears that God simply ignores Elihu, perhaps because he didn't really add anything of importance and because he was so young. It's as if God simply overlooks Elihu's youth and immaturity.

[Robert]

Robert seems to take Elihu's over the testimony of THREE witnesses!

Was God stating His own position on Job to Satan or was God stating Job's position of himself to Satan? In other words maybe God was presenting Job's view of himself before Satan....

[Gerr]

So, whose testimony do you accept? Satan's? Elihu's?

Or God's?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Robert seems to take Elihu's over the testimony of THREE witnesses!

Was God stating His own position on Job to Satan or was God stating Job's position of himself to Satan? In other words maybe God was presenting Job's view of himself before Satan....

In your own words, "pure speculation" which has no Biblical foundation!

[Gerr]

Quote:

Man alive, you want so bad to do away with Elihu....Why, John, why? You want to discredit him....Why?

And why would you want to believe the testimony of a FALLEN human being like Elihu so badly above what our holy and righteous God said of Job?

[skyblue888]

This is a bit long but not too long,,, in order to get the full scope of what really happened to Job and his friends and what Satan's great lie is, you need to read this from start to finish. Please take the time to read it. Thanks.

SATAN'S GREAT LIE

In chapter one, verse one, of the book of Job, the God of Heaven describes Job as being a perfect and an upright man. In other words, Job did keep the law of God to the satisfaction of the Lord Himself, for, if He should describe Job as being perfect and an upright man, then he must have been just that.

It follows then, that the life of Job was a clear-cut proof that the argument of the devil that the law could not be kept by human beings, was a false argument indeed. If Job was keeping that law, then any other man who would walk with God as Job did, could also keep that law. The very life of Job proved that the claims of the devil were false. The law of God was not too difficult for man to obey. Please take the time to read Deut.30:11-14.

Knowing full well the stand of the devil, and the arguments that he used to maintain his position, the Lord laid out a very definite challenge before him on the occasion when the Sons of God met together for council. This is recorded in verse eight of the first chapter.

"Then the Lord said unto Satan, 'Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil.'"

Let us not make the mistake of thinking that the Lord was taunting Satan, because it is not in the heart of the Lord to do such a thing. Instead, He was making a great and loving appeal to him. He was saying in effect, "Satan, why go on longer adding sin to sin, and building for yourself a greater retribution when the case is closed? Job has demonstrated that the law can be kept and so your whole position is proved wrong."

But would the devil admit that his whole position was so evidently wrong? Never! When the Lord said that Job was living a perfect life, then that was exactly what Job was doing, and it was more than the devil could do to find anything that Job was doing that was actually wrong. In his reply to God, he did not attempt to find any fault with Job. Rather he admitted that the Lord's claim was quite true and right. Knowing better than to attack from this angle, he turned instead to impugn the motives of the servant of the Lord and even of the Lord Himself! He charged Job with self-seeking and self-serving, and the Lord with underhandedness:

"Does Job fear God for nothing," he asked? "Have you not made an hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the works of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But now, stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face!" Job 1:9-11.

This is a very heavy charge to lay to the Lord. It was the charge that God and Job were working hand in hand to prove the devil wrong by putting up an artificial case. The Lord was paying Job very handsomely to serve him faultlessly, and Job, as an hired servant, was responding very well by giving the Lord what He wanted of him. All that was needed to reveal the true nature of the case was for God to cease the payments, and in no time the servant would curse God and obey the devil. Then it would be seen that, after all, the law of God could not be obeyed in all circumstances, and that the case of Job proved nothing at all. Such in effect was the argument that the devil put to the Lord on that occasion.

It was entirely a false argument, and the Lord knew this, and He was well prepared to let the battle between the good and the evil be carried one step further, so that righteousness could be vindicated and the enemy of His people exposed. So He told the devil that he could go ahead and test his argument by taking the possessions of Job.

So the case could now be settled only by delivering Job into the hands of Satan to rest and to prove him. And how the devil went to work to break Job at all costs. He swept away all his possessions, and killed all his children with devastating suddenness. As shock after shock fell upon him, Job endured the storm and did not fall in the least. Calmly and patiently he said, "The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord." Job 1:21.

And even yet the devil would not admit defeat, and so the Lord allowed him to take away his very health, until in utter misery he sat on a heap of ashes and wished that he had never been born, but still his loyalty to God remained steadfast.

Now that the devil had reduced him to this desperate situation, he brought to him three of the notable theologians of the time, and these sat down with him to counsel with him in this dark hour. And we can say without fear of contradiction, that although these men were theologians and professedly the ministers of the gospel, it was the devil who brought them to Job, and it was the devil who used them in an attempt to deceive Job with his fatal sophistry that it is impossible to live righteously. With weighty and solemn words they pressed upon Job the discouraging idea that if anyone was wicked he certainly was, for the Lord never punished anyone who was undeserving of it anyway.

But how is it that we know positively that those men were speaking the devil's arguments? The evidence is right in the book itself. Please turn to Job 42:7, and there we read these words: "The Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends: for you have not spoken of Me the thing that is right, as My servant Job has."

This is the word of the Lord. Therefore it is the truth. So we must conclude that if Eliphaz has spoken that which was not right, then he had been speaking a lie. And if he had spoken that which was a lie, then he certainly had not spoken it of God but of the devil, who is the father of all lies. Therefore, it was the devil and not the Lord who had sent Eliphaz and his companions to "advise" Job. They were his mouthpiece and as such expressed his thoughts and his ideas mixed, of course, with some truth, as always! Now let us turn to the fourth chapter where we find there the devil stating in plain terms the charge that it is impossible for human beings, in this life, to keep the law of God perfectly.

Verse one of the chapter identifies Eliphaz as the speaker. Now, what gives the argument greater weight is that he states that he received this "by inspiration." In verse 12-14 he describes his going into a night vision, and in verse 15, he says, "Then a spirit passed before my face, the hair on my body stood up: It stood still, but I could not discern its appearance. A form was before mine eyes. There was silence: Then I heard a voice saying..."

Thus Eliphaz describes his inspiration which he claimed to be from God, but which the Lord denied as coming from Him when He charged Eliphaz with speaking that which was a lie. And now here in verse 17 and onwards, we have, in plain language, the very charge of Satan that the law cannot be kept perfectly. Here is one place where he has really come out in the open with it. We shall quote it from the Revised Standard Version.

"Can a mortal man be righteous before God? Can a man be pure before His maker?" This is a rhetorical question. A rhetorical question is really a statement framed in question form to give the statement more impact. What Eliphaz is really saying, as he himself makes plain in the next verse is this: 'Surely you are not going to even make so much as a suggestion that you could believe that it is possible for a mortal man to keep the law of God perfectly?'

That this is the meaning and understanding, is evident from his following words. He goes on to say, "Even in His servants He puts no trust and His angels He charges with error. How much more those who dwell in houses of clay?" Verse 18.

And all this is uttered in such a scornful, incredelous tone as to dismiss all further argument on the matter. Why, he says, if even the angels are charged by God as being sinners, what hope does a mortal man have of ever measuring up to the requirements of God?"

And, in view of the depth and extent to which this lie has been for so long accepted by the human family, it is not an easy question for any human being to answer in the affirmative. Eliphaz fully expected Job to quail before that question, and to respond by saying it was not possible for a man to live righteously before God. But here he was disappointed, for Job was a man who had experienced the power of God to keep him from falling, and knew by that experience that it was possible to obey every one of God's holy precepts. "Humanity and divinity combined can obey every one of God's precepts." C.O.L.314.

Job had a knowledge of God and His saving power of which Eliphaz knew nothing, and in the light of the conviction and the assurance of that knowledge, he could answer as he did by denying completely the argument of the devil through Eliphaz.

"God forbid that I should justify you," he said. "Till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me. My righteousness (which he had by faith) I hold fast, and will not let it go; my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live." Job 27:5,6. *parenthesis mine

This sums up the persistent stand that Job took to his persecutors throughout the whole of the long battle with them. Only a man with living faith such as Job had, could answer as he did.

"Can a mortal man be righteous before God? Can a man be pure before His maker?" He most certainly can! He most positively, definitely, assuredly and decidedly can! If it is not possible for a man to live righteously, this side of Heaven, then where is the power of Christ in the gospel?

Are you prepared to believe that the power of sin is greater than the power of the gospel? Would you teach that Satan is stronger than Christ? The gospel is the living power of God to save from sin, and this it really does whenever a believing heart comes to God trusting wholly in the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Savior!

"We cannot explain this faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Savior to bring Christ's righteousness into the life..." And "Christ's righteousness is accomplishes everything." F.W.65,66,27. His righteousness is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. See T.M.92.

"Through the virtue of the merits of the blood of Christ we may stand unscathed amid the fire of temptation and trial." Ibid,87.

Thus plainly and clearly the devil's lie is exposed for what it is. We are to know that this is his lie so that no matter from what source this lie may be presented to us, we will know that we must instantly, positively and decidedly reject is for what it is. IT IS A FATAL SOPHISTRY.

"Through defects in the character, Satan works to gain control of the whole mind, and he knows that if these defects are cherished he will succeed. Therefore he is constantly seeking to deceive the followers of Christ with his fatal sophistry that it is impossible for them to overcome." G.C.489.

We will hear it argued with authority and vehemence from the pulpits; we will read it in religious publications and forums; the almost total majority of this world's inhabitants will endorse it in any kind of issue over the matter; we will stand largely alone if we reject this lie of Satan; our dearest and nearest friends and relatives will urge it upon us, and closest of all, our own hearts will even suggest it many times.

But every such voice is from the devil, the father of lies. We are to learn to be quick to recognize his voice in those assertions no matter by whom they may be spoken upon this earth. Our very own safety for this life and the life to come depends upon it.

Never forget nor lose sight of the fact that there in the word of God, that lie is exposed for what it is, and thus there is no excuse for any failure on our part to escape the deception and the consequences of it. See GC516;

sky

"From the very beginning, it has been the special doctrine of the adversary of God and man to declare that it is impossible for man to keep the precepts of Jehovah. This has been, and still is the work of Satan. This is the seductive doctrine that devils are seeking to spread throughout the world." Review and Herald, July 31, 1888; DA24.

[Twilight]

This is a bit long but not too long,,, in order to get the full scope of what really happened to Job and his friends and what Satan's great lie is, you need to read this from start to finish. Please take the time to read it. Thanks.

SATAN'S GREAT LIE

In chapter one, verse one, of the book of Job, the God of Heaven describes Job as being a perfect and an upright man. In other words, Job did keep the law of God to the satisfaction of the Lord Himself, for, if He should describe Job as being perfect and an upright man, then he must have been just that.

It follows then, that the life of Job was a clear-cut proof that the argument of the devil that the law could not be kept by human beings, was a false argument indeed. If Job was keeping that law, then any other man who would walk with God as Job did, could also keep that law. The very life of Job proved that the claims of the devil were false. The law of God was not too difficult for man to obey. Please take the time to read Deut.30:11-14.

Knowing full well the stand of the devil, and the arguments that he used to maintain his position, the Lord laid out a very definite challenge before him on the occasion when the Sons of God met together for council. This is recorded in verse eight of the first chapter.

"Then the Lord said unto Satan, 'Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil.'"

Let us not make the mistake of thinking that the Lord was taunting Satan, because it is not in the heart of the Lord to do such a thing. Instead, He was making a great and loving appeal to him. He was saying in effect, "Satan, why go on longer adding sin to sin, and building for yourself a greater retribution when the case is closed? Job has demonstrated that the law can be kept and so your whole position is proved wrong."

But would the devil admit that his whole position was so evidently wrong? Never! When the Lord said that Job was living a perfect life, then that was exactly what Job was doing, and it was more than the devil could do to find anything that Job was doing that was actually wrong. In his reply to God, he did not attempt to find any fault with Job. Rather he admitted that the Lord's claim was quite true and right. Knowing better than to attack from this angle, he turned instead to impugn the motives of the servant of the Lord and even of the Lord Himself! He charged Job with self-seeking and self-serving, and the Lord with underhandedness:

"Does Job fear God for nothing," he asked? "Have you not made an hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the works of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But now, stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face!" Job 1:9-11.

This is a very heavy charge to lay to the Lord. It was the charge that God and Job were working hand in hand to prove the devil wrong by putting up an artificial case. The Lord was paying Job very handsomely to serve him faultlessly, and Job, as an hired servant, was responding very well by giving the Lord what He wanted of him. All that was needed to reveal the true nature of the case was for God to cease the payments, and in no time the servant would curse God and obey the devil. Then it would be seen that, after all, the law of God could not be obeyed in all circumstances, and that the case of Job proved nothing at all. Such in effect was the argument that the devil put to the Lord on that occasion.

It was entirely a false argument, and the Lord knew this, and He was well prepared to let the battle between the good and the evil be carried one step further, so that righteousness could be vindicated and the enemy of His people exposed. So He told the devil that he could go ahead and test his argument by taking the possessions of Job.

So the case could now be settled only by delivering Job into the hands of Satan to rest and to prove him. And how the devil went to work to break Job at all costs. He swept away all his possessions, and killed all his children with devastating suddenness. As shock after shock fell upon him, Job endured the storm and did not fall in the least. Calmly and patiently he said, "The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord." Job 1:21.

And even yet the devil would not admit defeat, and so the Lord allowed him to take away his very health, until in utter misery he sat on a heap of ashes and wished that he had never been born, but still his loyalty to God remained steadfast.

Now that the devil had reduced him to this desperate situation, he brought to him three of the notable theologians of the time, and these sat down with him to counsel with him in this dark hour. And we can say without fear of contradiction, that although these men were theologians and professedly the ministers of the gospel, it was the devil who brought them to Job, and it was the devil who used them in an attempt to deceive Job with his fatal sophistry that it is impossible to live righteously. With weighty and solemn words they pressed upon Job the discouraging idea that if anyone was wicked he certainly was, for the Lord never punished anyone who was undeserving of it anyway.

But how is it that we know positively that those men were speaking the devil's arguments? The evidence is right in the book itself. Please turn to Job 42:7, and there we read these words: "The Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends: for you have not spoken of Me the thing that is right, as My servant Job has."

This is the word of the Lord. Therefore it is the truth. So we must conclude that if Eliphaz has spoken that which was not right, then he had been speaking a lie. And if he had spoken that which was a lie, then he certainly had not spoken it of God but of the devil, who is the father of all lies. Therefore, it was the devil and not the Lord who had sent Eliphaz and his companions to "advise" Job. They were his mouthpiece and as such expressed his thoughts and his ideas mixed, of course, with some truth, as always! Now let us turn to the fourth chapter where we find there the devil stating in plain terms the charge that it is impossible for human beings, in this life, to keep the law of God perfectly.

Verse one of the chapter identifies Eliphaz as the speaker. Now, what gives the argument greater weight is that he states that he received this "by inspiration." In verse 12-14 he describes his going into a night vision, and in verse 15, he says, "Then a spirit passed before my face, the hair on my body stood up: It stood still, but I could not discern its appearance. A form was before mine eyes. There was silence: Then I heard a voice saying..."

Thus Eliphaz describes his inspiration which he claimed to be from God, but which the Lord denied as coming from Him when He charged Eliphaz with speaking that which was a lie. And now here in verse 17 and onwards, we have, in plain language, the very charge of Satan that the law cannot be kept perfectly. Here is one place where he has really come out in the open with it. We shall quote it from the Revised Standard Version.

"Can a mortal man be righteous before God? Can a man be pure before His maker?" This is a rhetorical question. A rhetorical question is really a statement framed in question form to give the statement more impact. What Eliphaz is really saying, as he himself makes plain in the next verse is this: 'Surely you are not going to even make so much as a suggestion that you could believe that it is possible for a mortal man to keep the law of God perfectly?'

That this is the meaning and understanding, is evident from his following words. He goes on to say, "Even in His servants He puts no trust and His angels He charges with error. How much more those who dwell in houses of clay?" Verse 18.

And all this is uttered in such a scornful, incredelous tone as to dismiss all further argument on the matter. Why, he says, if even the angels are charged by God as being sinners, what hope does a mortal man have of ever measuring up to the requirements of God?"

And, in view of the depth and extent to which this lie has been for so long accepted by the human family, it is not an easy question for any human being to answer in the affirmative. Eliphaz fully expected Job to quail before that question, and to respond by saying it was not possible for a man to live righteously before God. But here he was disappointed, for Job was a man who had experienced the power of God to keep him from falling, and knew by that experience that it was possible to obey every one of God's holy precepts. "Humanity and divinity combined can obey every one of God's precepts." C.O.L.314.

Job had a knowledge of God and His saving power of which Eliphaz knew nothing, and in the light of the conviction and the assurance of that knowledge, he could answer as he did by denying completely the argument of the devil through Eliphaz.

"God forbid that I should justify you," he said. "Till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me. My righteousness (which he had by faith) I hold fast, and will not let it go; my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live." Job 27:5,6. *parenthesis mine

This sums up the persistent stand that Job took to his persecutors throughout the whole of the long battle with them. Only a man with living faith such as Job had, could answer as he did.

"Can a mortal man be righteous before God? Can a man be pure before His maker?" He most certainly can! He most positively, definitely, assuredly and decidedly can! If it is not possible for a man to live righteously, this side of Heaven, then where is the power of Christ in the gospel?

Are you prepared to believe that the power of sin is greater than the power of the gospel? Would you teach that Satan is stronger than Christ? The gospel is the living power of God to save from sin, and this it really does whenever a believing heart comes to God trusting wholly in the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Savior!

"We cannot explain this faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Savior to bring Christ's righteousness into the life..." And "Christ's righteousness is accomplishes everything." F.W.65,66,27. His righteousness is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. See T.M.92.

"Through the virtue of the merits of the blood of Christ we may stand unscathed amid the fire of temptation and trial." Ibid,87.

Thus plainly and clearly the devil's lie is exposed for what it is. We are to know that this is his lie so that no matter from what source this lie may be presented to us, we will know that we must instantly, positively and decidedly reject is for what it is. IT IS A FATAL SOPHISTRY.

"Through defects in the character, Satan works to gain control of the whole mind, and he knows that if these defects are cherished he will succeed. Therefore he is constantly seeking to deceive the followers of Christ with his fatal sophistry that it is impossible for them to overcome." G.C.489.

We will hear it argued with authority and vehemence from the pulpits; we will read it in religious publications and forums; the almost total majority of this world's inhabitants will endorse it in any kind of issue over the matter; we will stand largely alone if we reject this lie of Satan; our dearest and nearest friends and relatives will urge it upon us, and closest of all, our own hearts will even suggest it many times.

But every such voice is from the devil, the father of lies. We are to learn to be quick to recognize his voice in those assertions no matter by whom they may be spoken upon this earth. Our very own safety for this life and the life to come depends upon it.

Never forget nor lose sight of the fact that there in the word of God, that lie is exposed for what it is, and thus there is no excuse for any failure on our part to escape the deception and the consequences of it. See GC516;

sky

"From the very beginning, it has been the special doctrine of the adversary of God and man to declare that it is impossible for man to keep the precepts of Jehovah. This has been, and still is the work of Satan. This is the seductive doctrine that devils are seeking to spread throughout the world." Review and Herald, July 31, 1888; DA24.

Amen my friend, Amen. :-)

Mark

[skyblue888]

Praise God! :)

[Woody]

There you go again. Agreeing with yourself.