What is the Gospel?

[Guest]

Don't you post quite a few sermons from A.T. Jones?

Yes, in a thread that I started, for just that purpose. But never in response to what someone else has said. Or in the middle someone else's thread.

[pnattmbtc]

Personally I like these quotes, whether from Sequeira or Jones (or others) as long as they're not too long.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

"the man who is sold under sin is the slave of sin."

First of all Paul had the spirit of the law in mind. Who here on CA is keeping the spirit of the law. Who is living Christ's life? Answer: None!

I am

[Overaged]

Quote:

p:Whether I do or not is none of your concern.

R:Then don't make the claim and I want ask.

Don't make false claims yourself! Where did I make the claim you are claiming I made? Answer: I didn't! I made no claims at all. I simply repeated the teaching of Scripture.

You should be filled with joy at being able to make the claim that you are living the life of Christ. I would never let anyone tell me I wasn't, because Jesus and His Word say different.

[Robert]

You are ignoring Romans 7:14 through 8:3. Without this your foundation will always be off...it will be legalistic. Until you can accept what it is saying Romans 8:4 and on will be interpreted with error.

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

If you are the children of God you are partakers of His nature, and you cannot but be like Him. Every child lives by the life of his father. If you are God's children, begotten by His Spirit, you live by the life of God. In Christ dwells "all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9); and the life of Jesus is made manifest "in our mortal flesh" (2 Corinthians 4:11). That life in you will produce the same character and manifest the same works as it did in Him. (MB 78;emphasis mine)

[Robert]

Someone claims to be living Christ's life. Who is it? Are you afraid to stand up? Come out of the shadows. Better yet, I've got a EGW quote for you whoever you are:

Many see much to admire in the life of Christ. But true love for him can never dwell in the heart of the self-righteous. Not to see our own deformity is not to see the beauty of Christ’s character. When we are fully awake to our own sinfulness, we shall appreciate Christ. The more humble are our views of ourselves, the more clearly we shall see the spotless character of Jesus. He who says, “I am holy, I am sinless,” is self-deceived. Some have said this, and some even dare to say, “I am Christ.” To entertain such a thought is blasphemy. Not to see the marked contrast between Christ and ourselves is not to know ourselves. He who does not abhor himself can not understand the meaning of redemption.

[Overaged]

Someone claims to be living Christ's life. Who is it? Are you afraid to stand up? Come out of the shadows. Better yet, I've got a EGW quote for you whoever you are:

Many see much to admire in the life of Christ. But true love for him can never dwell in the heart of the self-righteous. Not to see our own deformity is not to see the beauty of Christ’s character. When we are fully awake to our own sinfulness, we shall appreciate Christ. The more humble are our views of ourselves, the more clearly we shall see the spotless character of Jesus. He who says, “I am holy, I am sinless,” is self-deceived. Some have said this, and some even dare to say, “I am Christ.” To entertain such a thought is blasphemy. Not to see the marked contrast between Christ and ourselves is not to know ourselves. He who does not abhor himself can not understand the meaning of redemption.

Robert. I already stated above that I am living that life.

[Robert]

Quote:

If you are the children of God you are partakers of His nature, and you cannot but be like Him. Every child lives by the life of his father. If you are God's children, begotten by His Spirit, you live by the life of God. In Christ dwells "all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9); and the life of Jesus is made manifest "in our mortal flesh" (2 Corinthians 4:11). That life in you will produce the same character and manifest the same works as it did in Him. (MB 78;emphasis mine)

Funny, she said different in other places. I guess she changed her mind:

The religious services, the prayers, the praise, the penitent confession of sin ascend from true believers as incense to the heavenly sanctuary; but passing through the corrupt channels of humanity, they are so defiled that unless purified by blood, they can never be of value with God. They ascend not in spotless purity, and unless the Intercessor who is at God’s right hand presents and purifies all by His righteousness, it is not acceptable to God. All incense from earthly tabernacles must be moist with the cleansing drops of the blood of Christ. He holds before the Father the censer of His own merits, in which there is no taint of earthly corruption. He gathers into this censer the prayers, the praise, and the confessions of His people, and with these He puts His own spotless righteousness. Then, perfumed with the merits of Christ’s propitiation, the incense comes up before God wholly and entirely acceptable. Then gracious answers are returned.

O, that all may see that everything in obedience, in penitence, in praise and thanksgiving must be placed upon the glowing fire of the righteousness of Christ. The fragrance of this righteousness ascends like a cloud around the mercy seat (MS 50, 1900).

Our earthly life, however long, honored, or useful it may be, is but childhood, frail, imperfect, and undeveloped. Manhood, with its full, perfect, glorious development, will come, when, freed from the taint of sin, we stand among the redeemed throng. Then we shall enjoy a life which measures with the life of God, and through everlasting ages we shall go on increasing in wisdom and knowledge. [sT 6-9-1881]

[Woody]

Quote:

I am

I think scripture has something to say about that.

[Overaged]

Quote:

I am

I think scripture has something to say about that.

What?

[Robert]

Robert. I already stated above that I am living that life.

Okay....Now let me test you:

"Jesus...thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself." Since you are claiming to live His life everything you do is for others, right? You do nothing for yourself besides nourishment of your body (food, water and clothing).

Is this the case?

[Robert]

Quote:

p:Whether I do or not is none of your concern.

R:Then don't make the claim and I want ask.

Don't make false claims yourself! Where did I make the claim you are claiming I made? Answer: I didn't! I made no claims at all. I simply repeated the teaching of Scripture.

Stand up man...be counted....Don't hide....The Bible can be interpreted many ways. Are you living Christ's life or not?

[Robert]

I agree with Jack's conclusion here. I think too much is made of whether it's before conversion Paul or after conversion Paul rather than to the point Sequeira brings out here, which is that, to the argument Paul is making, *it doesn't matter*.

Dude...you misread Jack. If you look at the context Jack states that the man of Romans 7 is converted.

What he is stating above is that it doesn't matter if you are converted or unconverted you can't conquer your bent-to-self by your will power.....That was his point.....

Here's Jack: "The reasons why I believe that Paul had the believer in mind (and I gave the reasons before) are at least four reasons because:"

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

Robert. I already stated above that I am living that life.

Okay....Now let me test you:

"Jesus...thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself." Since you are claiming to live His life everything you do is for others, right? You do nothing for yourself besides nourishment of your body (food, water and clothing).

Is this the case?

First of all my friend, you have no authority to "test" me or anyone. But since you are trying to do it anyways; allow me to test you. My "test" is my answer to your "test."

You are demanding here that in order to pass your test, that I be found as "doing nothing for myself but the nourishment of my body." Well; how will I get dressed in the morning if all I can do is eat and drink? Do I do this naked? What will people think? Would this be "the Gospel?"

Where do you find this "test" of your's in the Bible Robert?

Your test is falsehood. It is not the same test that Jesus would give.

[Robert]

Isn't that kind of a self-righteous thing to say?

No....not at all!

[Robert]

I'm siding with Waggoner and her against you. I see very little reasoning or evidence on your part adduced from Scripture....

I see error with you, EGW and Waggoner...not in everything, but still I see error when I look at my Bible and look at the 3 mentioned folks....

I'm not bound by tradition and denominationalism. I tend to think outside the box.

[Robert]

So it is Jack that has freed you from your self righteous attitude?

God has used him to deliver folks from their legalistic ways...yes...

[Robert]

"Jesus...thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself." Since you are claiming to live His life everything you do is for others, right? You do nothing for yourself besides nourishment of your body (food, water and clothing).

[Guest]

You are demanding here that in order to pass your test, that I be found as "doing nothing for myself but the nourishment of my body." Well; how will I get dressed in the morning if all I can do is eat and drink? Do I do this naked? What will people think? Would this be "the Gospel?"

Where do you find this "test" of your's in the Bible Robert?

Your test is falsehood. It is not the same test that Jesus would give.

I guess you're right O/A.

[pnattmbtc]

p(quoting EGW)If you are the children of God you are partakers of His nature, and you cannot but be like Him. Every child lives by the life of his father. If you are God's children, begotten by His Spirit, you live by the life of God. In Christ dwells "all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9); and the life of Jesus is made manifest "in our mortal flesh" (2 Corinthians 4:11). That life in you will produce the same character and manifest the same works as it did in Him. (MB 78;emphasis mine)

R:Funny, she said different in other places. I guess she changed her mind:

Or you misunderstood her. Isn't that more likely than that she "changed her mind"?

Actually, she's saying the same thing Scripture teaches. On the one hand, we live by the life of Christ, and that life is a righteous life. That life in us will produce the same life it produced in Him, as it must, since it's the same life. This is the consistent teaching of Scripture.

On the other hand, each of us can (and should) say, along with Paul, "it is a faithful saying that Jesus Christ came to save sinners, of whom I am chief." We are the chief of sinners, but Jesus Christ is righteous, and He offers to exchange our sin for His righteousness.

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

p:Whether I do or not is none of your concern.

R:Then don't make the claim and I want ask.

p:Don't make false claims yourself! Where did I make the claim you are claiming I made? Answer: I didn't! I made no claims at all. I simply repeated the teaching of Scripture.

R:Stand up man...be counted....Don't hide....The Bible can be interpreted many ways. Are you living Christ's life or not?

First own up to your false claims, please. Then we'll take it from there.

You asked me questions which are none of your concern, and which have absolutely nothing to do with establishing truth. When I told you this was none of your concern, you responded, "Then don't make the claim and I won't ask." But I made no claim. So what you said is false. It's false twice. First of all, you said you wouldn't ask if I made no claim, but you did ask, and I made no claim. Secondly it's false because you asked again, even after I pointed out to you that I had made no claim.

[Guest]

Quote:

R:Funny, she said different in other places. I guess she changed her mind:

Or you misunderstood her. Isn't that more likely than that she "changed her mind"?

Actually, she's saying the same thing Scripture teaches. On the one hand, we live by the life of Christ, and that life is a righteous life. That life in us will produce the same life it produced in Him, as it must, since it's the same life. This is the consistent teaching of Scripture.

On the other hand, each of us can (and should) say, along with Paul, "it is a faithful saying that Jesus Christ came to save sinners, of whom I am chief." We are the chief of sinners, but Jesus Christ is righteous, and He offers to exchange our sin for His righteousness.

Amen!

[Guest]

Quote:

p:Whether I do or not is none of your concern.

R:Then don't make the claim and I want ask.

p:Don't make false claims yourself! Where did I make the claim you are claiming I made? Answer: I didn't! I made no claims at all. I simply repeated the teaching of Scripture.

R:Stand up man...be counted....Don't hide....The Bible can be interpreted many ways. Are you living Christ's life or not?

First own up to your false claims, please. Then we'll take it from there.

You asked me questions which are none of your concern, and which have absolutely nothing to do with establishing truth. When I told you this was none of your concern, you responded, "Then don't make the claim and I won't ask." But I made no claim. So what you said is false. It's false twice. First of all, you said you wouldn't ask if I made no claim, but you did ask, and I made no claim. Secondly it's false because you asked again, even after I pointed out to you that I had made no claim.

Yep

[pnattmbtc]

I see error with you, EGW and Waggoner...not in everything, but still I see error when I look at my Bible and look at the 3 mentioned folks....